“Pride is about identity not sex”

[Chocchops72]

“Pride is about identity not sex”

i just read this statement on a Twitter thread and it really caught my attention. Surely the whole point of Pride is (or was?) to demand / celebrate the right of gay people to have sex, legally, with other people of the same sex as themselves?

As a straight adult human female I don’t have much skin in this game, but this phrase just stood out for me as really weird. Isn’t sexuality - linked to one’s sex - the whole point? It’s like walking the walk, not just talking the talk.

I mean, if it’s true then I could ‘identify’ as a lesbian (not sure how) without ever actually having sex with a woman? But I’d be able to say I’m a lesbian? Am I understanding this correctly?

And this is where the force teaming of 'gay' and 'trans' is problematic. They are not the same thing, and really should never have been lumped together.

Gay people aren't trying to compel others to believe in their unreality. However the demands of trans people is that everyone is compelled to participate in their self image, even if it is disadvantageous to us. Many trans people. (men with autogynephilia) are straight and acting out a fetish in public. How is that the same as being gay? It isn't.

In the UK, people who say they are trans are statistically the safest demographic.

Same sex couples have only had the right to marry across the whole of the uk since 2020. That’s only 3 years.
Let’s not pretend your sexual orientation has no impact on your experience or how you exist.

Having sex as a gay person was illegal right up to the 80s in the uk.

2 women a week are murdered in the uk because they’re female.
I would say that’s a much bigger threat to existence than people not ignoring material reality in order to appease someone’s feelings.

I seem to be getting no traction with my use of the word currently

Ho hum

Do you think 3 years is ancient history?

It is a very short amount of time and therefore incredibly relevant to the experience in the uk currently.

At least you're consistent you have an all encompassing sneering hatred for everyone that is not you. Sorry you feel that UK citizens have no right to celebrate the diversity and various communities that they exist in. Of course, we should all stop based on the view on one, democracy in action!

But what about misgendering causing hurty feelz and the right to exist? Aren't they more important than, you know, women with their "eggshell skulls" being murdered?

I'll answer my own rhetorical questions. Men are and always will be more important than women.

You are absolutely right, and there does need to still be protections in place for gay people.
However, the point that some people are missing on this thread is that the word 'identity' which is in the title of the thread, has now become about gender identity, not sexual orientation.
Nothing to do with gay people, in fact it's usually straight men, wanting to dress as women and be counted as women. Again, nothing to do with being gay.
That is the issue. Why is Pride celebrating straight men with a fetish?

Pride isn't about homosexuality any more. See this article in the Gay Times. Can you find the words gay or lesbian anywhere? No, me neither

cd-gaytimes.j.layershift.co.uk/originals/lgbtq-stars-and-activists-share-empowering-messages-for-pride-month/

@Farmageddon I disagree. I think identity to the vast majority of people simply means the actual definition, which is the combination of things that make you who you are. For many people their life partner, and a life which involves varying degrees of prejudice based on who that life partner is will be one of the things that informs their identity.

Only a small subset of people seem to claim the only context you can use the word ‘identity’ is gender identity.

I'm slightly scared to come back into this but big girls pants on.

I didn't mean to imply that people who haven't / don't have sex (the act) don't have a sexuality or experience sexual desire: that was clumsily worded on my part. I guess in my mind Pride is an adult event, and I was thinking of adults - most of who tend to have sex with someone at some point.

I think a lot of pps have clarified what I am puzzled by (and I'm not being disingenuous here - I genuinely want to understand how this is meant to work). Sex (biological) has boundaries, identity has virtually none. If anyone can identify as anything and it's not based on anything other than 'feelings', where does that leave us? Are there any definable groups that cannot be 'identified' into?

IRL definitions and categories are something I work with a lot.

Sex (biological) has boundaries, identity has virtually none.

That is a very perceptive comment, OP. Sex is verifiable. Identity isn't.

The problem is that Stonewall and other prominent gay organisations don't agree with you. In fact they are now campaigning almost exclusively for gender identity issues rather than for gay people.

Identity is more than just one factor that is basic psychology. Everyone can put themselves into many categories that form their identity. Surely you knew that the all people hating transphobe bots would jump on any thread with identity in the title?

I don't give a toss how Stonewall feel. And I can't say "how they think" because they don't as doing so would cause their house of cards to collapse.

Are there any definable groups that cannot be 'identified' into?
Good question.
So far, it seems that sex is the only one you can have legally recognised.
Age, race, culture - starts getting less acceptable and for some people actually offensive (appropriation)
You can't identify as a child and go to primary school, or as a pensioner and get pension.
But you can identify as a sex other than you were born as and command entry to places previously you could not - such as competitions, changing rooms, clubs and prisons..

No I don’t but let’s be honest here, we’re talking about people stating their “right to exist” is currently at threat. What this generally means, in 2023 in the UK, is that people don’t believe people are who they say they are based on nothing but that’s person’s word.
Tell me about a legality in which gay people are being discriminated against and I’ll get back out protesting and writing to my MP.
Tell me I’m threatening a male’s existence because I disagree with him having access to women’s only spaces and I’ll tell you to, well, I’m sure you can guess.

I would say that Pride is about not being ashamed of who you are, not having to hide it away and to say "I am here, we are here, we aren't going anywhere"

In the USA, LGBT families are fleeing the Red States because of the changing attitudes. Pride events have been cancelled. There have been incidents of people with guns near Pride events, people being photographed at Pride events by others for "records". People being abused, harassed, doxed, threatened with social services because of being LGBT or speaking out about LGBT.

‘It’s been a total witch-hunt. It takes its toll’: the LGBTQ+ families fleeing red states | LGBTQ+ rights | The Guardian

"While legislation plays out in the courts, it is engendering more on-the-ground hostility from extremist rightwing groups. In June 2022, 31 members of Patriot Front were arrested en route to a Pride event in Idaho carrying weapons. In Moore county, J. Clapp’s local area, a drag event was recently disrupted by a power outage. Reports later showed that the local power substation had been shot out, leaving 40,000 people without power. One resident died in connection with the outage. Like other local activists, J. Clapp believes members of the far right were behind the attack. (The police are investigating far-right groups, though no arrests have been made.) “No one is standing up against these groups, and we – LGBTQ+ people – just feel helpless.”"

This country is not like the USA - but I can see why people do want to stand up and say "I am LGBT, I support LGBT people" and they are not going anywhere.

Exactly. “Pride is about gender identity, not biological sex”.

So it’s not fundamentally about same-sex attracted people having the same rights as opposite sex attracted people?

I think pride is about sexual orientation for its LGB members but about identity for the rest of the alphabet soup Yes I agree

Nobody really wants to stop people from celebrating diversity. Surely we can all do that just in our everyday lives without a song and dance which brings more attention to the 'diversity' that ostracises the people that are just trying to fit in?

What they want is for men to stop gadding about dressed as puppies being whipped by another man in leather and to be able to say ' rainbow dildo butt monkey isn't appropriate for kids'.