“Pride is about identity not sex”

[Chocchops72]

“Pride is about identity not sex”

i just read this statement on a Twitter thread and it really caught my attention. Surely the whole point of Pride is (or was?) to demand / celebrate the right of gay people to have sex, legally, with other people of the same sex as themselves?

As a straight adult human female I don’t have much skin in this game, but this phrase just stood out for me as really weird. Isn’t sexuality - linked to one’s sex - the whole point? It’s like walking the walk, not just talking the talk.

I mean, if it’s true then I could ‘identify’ as a lesbian (not sure how) without ever actually having sex with a woman? But I’d be able to say I’m a lesbian? Am I understanding this correctly?

Oops. In response to Whatwouldscullydo's post.

It would appear that ‘sexual orientation’ is another group that is being identified into? Even if it’s by the back door of being able to “identify as” a woman or - less often I imagine - a man, and thus gain entry into that group and everything that goes along with that.

I always thought this too. About living how you want without having to hide it or be subject to prejudice, which might or might not involve a sexual relationship. That's how people I know who are active in the communities seem to portray it to me too.

It’s not transphobic to acknowledge that gay rights are significantly affected by people claiming males can identify as lesbians and females can identify as gay men.

It’s not transphobic to acknowledge that women’s rights are significantly impacted by males who demand access to female only spaces.

It’s not shocking that threads about same sex attraction and women’s rights, focus on the biological sex of people because it is this that defines them being gay or women. Without that definition, you cannot have laws and no robust policies to protect.

I celebrate everything sex identify. Things I haven't tried yet but can

Yes, LGB rights used to be about sexual preference. Now it's about a whole identity.

Pink News once wrote a think piece saying that Peter Thiel is not really gay (he definitely is) because even though he only has sex with men, he's not left wing policially. Therefore he may be homosexual but he doesn't deserve to be called gay.

Just sit back and have a think about how dumb that is.

Can someone please translate this post into English? Thank you.

But you throw around the serious allegation of transphobic when there is no irrational fear of trans people or hatred on this thread. You actual devalue the real issues around transphobia by labeling a discussion and differing opinions as phobic. The word is becoming increasingly meaningless by its use by people like yourself but can still trigger serious repercussions when your baseless allegations are made.
Where on this thread has hatred of trans people, incitement to hatred, irrational fear of trans people been expressed or even implied.
Why do you say 'as expected'
Why can you not just express an opinion without labelling the whole thread transphobic

Pride is more about identity than sex to me. Sexuality is part of identity and it includes more than who you feel sexually attracted to, if anyone as cannot forget those who are asexual. It is about the freedom to not hide this part of your identity, to live openly and not be discriminated against or a victim of hate crime.

The first “pride” March was the Christopher Street Parade held in NYC to mark the first anniversary of the stonewall uprising. It was exclusively about the rights of same sex attracted people, which is a fact not an “identity”.

everyone was dressed normally and not a freak show.

Sexual orientation is not just about" "sex" it's about romantic love the same way heterosexuality means that you form sexual and romantic relationships with the opposite sex.

Pride is to celebrate being not straight, because historically it has been a literal crime to be not straight.

I don't get what's hard to understand about it or why you have an issue with your quote?

It smacks of homophobia when people equate homosexuality to pure sexuality but do not do the same about heterosexuality.

I mean, if it’s true then I could ‘identify’ as a lesbian

No, you are confusing two different things. Identity is not what you “self-identify” as. Most of our identity is independent of our psyche and cannot be self-identified into or out of.

That's not an identity though, it's a sexuality.

The quoter has chosen the word identity but the key part of my interpretation of their quote is "identity not sex" so I'm assuming it is a counter to people trying to discredit pride parade as solely sex/fetish events.

The OP goes on to talk about specifically sex so this further informed my interpretation of what the actual issue in the OP's post is. Without the context of the quote though it's hard to say.

Sexuality is part of one’s identity.
Pride is about the right to express this aspect of identity freely and legally without being hated.

Exactly, and given that non straight people have been pursued pretty relentlessy for that one aspect of themselves, I'd say it was pretty crass for other, straight people to claim that sexual orientation is not at all part of identity.

I agree. I feel the OP is confused and I agree it’s is homophobic to think Pride is all about the “right to have sex” like it’s some sort of sexual fetish.

Completely agree with you Grin&.

Using pressurising language such as "transphobia" and "bigotry" and "hate" to coerce same sex attracted females into sexually accepting males (same goes for gay men being pushed to accept females) is not only gross homophobia but also rape culture.
The lack of safety, as increasing numbers of the LGB see it, is coming from within. It's not straight men on the street who are abusing us anymore.

Additionally, there's a tragic irony in invoking Alan Turings chemical castration given the circumstances of 2023.

Even if I didn't see the transphobic undertones of this post I would still question it's relevance to the actual post about pride.

Bull.

One's sexual orientation is part of who anyone is - straight or otherwise. It's not part of my identity, never has been and never will be.

Honestly, I dont care if you see "transphobic undertones" given that what I've said is utterly factual.
It's not a word that can silence people as effectively these days.

"Identity" is a nebulous and subjective concept and you don't get to speak on behalf of all non straight people that their sexual orientation has not formed part of their identity either in their own eyes or society's thanks.

But, silly me I should have picked up on the OP quicker and realised this is just another MN anti trans thread. I'm presuming your point is pride should be gate kept and only gay and lesbian people should be able to celebrate pride and not trans people?

Trans people have also been subject to social and cultural ostracisation regarding their sexual orientation and gender identity and faced similar pressures to live in the closet so if anyone is trying to say that trans people shouldn't be included in Pride I would say they were regressive, ignorant and yes bigoted.

‘Surely Pride can be about whatever people think it is?’

well, I suppose so. But that’s so wide a definition that it becomes meaningless.

The good names household was going to celebrate Shame month, because it has housed a non adulterous heterosexual vanilla pair of humans for four decades. But now it seems we can join in after all. yippee!

It's always the same old crap, and the same few phrases. No one is trying to "silence" you we are literally having discourse about an issue with is the direct opposite of "silencing"

You may not care that the post is dog whistling transphobia but I fail to see how it makes it not the case? You sound like a child who's done something wrong and the only response they can come up with is "I don't caaaare"