To think latent Islamaphobia is as prevalent as ever

[Lesschubtolove]

This is based from several posts I’ve now seen in MN, about burquinis, wearing the hijab, in fact anything vaguely Muslim related on MN and in print media as well as the real world.

Most comments from posters on MN are fairly neutral but there are a fair number that then state some pretty (pulls yikes face) comments, especially about women’s clothing or integration. There also seem to be a lot of misconceptions about what Muslims actually believe.

It seems to me as though yes most people won’t come out and say that they dislike Muslims or think they are stupid, backwards, oppressed (insert adjective here) but the disdain comes out in more subtle ways.

im genuinely quite surprised at the misconceptions I read on MN, but I guess they must apply to real life too, but just that people don’t wish to voice them.

ps I am a Muslim myself. I did an ama a while back

BTW, I'm against all religions that tell women they can only be good in one way, usually by being 'modest', as per my comments on the other thread.

Well it wouldn’t be Just non Muslim males; it would be all males don’t stand a chance.

so islamically men are seen as the head of the household and a Muslim man can marry a Jew or Christian. A Muslim woman cannot, some have interepreted it as the dominant one can marry a Christian or jew but this is a minority view. Dating in Islam is prohibited but it obviously happens, here and in Muslim majority countries. What is permissible is getting to know someone over a period of time for the purposes of marriage, so I guess halal dating.

my personal opinion is that if a person is an ardent (not necessarily conservative but truly believes their religion is the right one)Muslim, Christian or Jew or any other religion, then a mixed marriage won’t work. So if a non Muslim asked me out (prior to marriage ) I’d decline because it just wouldn’t be going anywhere

I think islam is stupid and I don't respect it but I do respect an individuals right to practice their religion however silly I think it might be.

I think what the holy book says, so what a scholar of Islam would confirm is the true lesson of Islam, and what point of view Muslims have culturally don't necessarily match exactly.
So arguing about what the Qur'an says isn't necessarily useful when the attitudes and behaviours are about what is culturally normal not just religiously acceptable.

I actually think to think their life is sinful and their lifestyle is wrong and bad and other such words still constitutes homophobia, whether articulated or not. Likewise for Islam is you think that is a bad and evil religion or backward with backward people or whatever then that’s anti Muslim sentiment too.

@Lesschubtolove

So if dating is not allowed how do men and women get to know each other another to an extent where they can form a positive long term relationship? If we move away from arranged marriage what other mechanism is there? Can you see this is a slightly different approach to a western one?

The inability to have mixed religion relationships may be the next taboo to be targeted in society. Inter racial marriage has for good reason become culturally acceptable over the decades so why not inter religous marriage? I think you portray women as slightly separate from society until marriage which doesn't perfectly align with a modern western culture in some ways?

I do see your point that mixed religion marriages have challenges but isn't there a real boon to society in allowing them? After all Muslim marrying a Christian would be praying to the same God?

I personally dislike all religions, I believe they were created to shame/control masses of people.

I also don’t believe any schools should be religious. If people make the choice as an adult to become religious, then crack on.

If we do not have inter religion marriages then to some extent is this not self enforced segregation? Muslim young men although forbidden from dating I am sure will have interest in girls (and whisper it .....eventually sex) so how do they interact with young western women; do they adopt a position of saintly chastity until married?

Does the attitude of separate relationship groups impact schooling where with a secular school with diverse intake from a variety of religion can face real challenges in setting appropriate PHSE lessons and generally discussing relationships? Romance and dating infuse our music and literature in the UK....🤷

In all honesty I’m not surprised at the widespread Islamophobia. Human beings are pretty much hardwired to seeing people who are like us and those who are not like us. It’s the default position. It’s evolution and survival.

The more different people are, in this case clothing often skin colour and beliefs (in the west even if you’re not Christian people have an understanding of these concepts generally, everyone knows the festivals , who the main players are etc

Thankfully most people can see beyond this knee jerk reaction and accept differences.

But with all the threat to the west from Islamic groups esp over the last 20 years or so people (who love to group things) see things in common between the average Muslim and the terrorists, the knee jerk is to see Muslims as a threat, because for survival purposes it’s better to er on the side of caution.

From an intellectual perspective, of course we can reject these knee jerks recognise them as such and not have an issue with these differences. But it takes effort to move away from the default not everyone will do this of course sadly.

But the same applies to other minority or non- controllling groups.

I do genuinely think intergration is a problem though. I live in an area with very high numbers of Muslims (and other nationalities) they do seem to stick within their own community more than other groups.

Attitudes and assumptions that no longer hold true?

So what do you think gay people should do? you are proving that actually modernisation is needed.

Well there’s a lot of ways, so Muslims also do meet and date just like non Muslims, permissible or not it happens. Then there’s match making services, through friends, meeting at work, through apps etc lots of ways. But say it was at work or at uni, a man met a woman and got to know her in a platonic sense and felt maybe there would be something more, then he could ask her for her walis (guardian) details and as it’s the modern day I’m guessing she’d know he was on about marriage and they’d go from there if they both wanted to pursue and Islamic courtship.

but its common amongst faith communities, Jews seldom marry outside the faith.

Sort of yes, I think if that person harbours ill sentiment to gay people and value judgments like it’s wrong, gross etc then that person is homophobic

Islam is fine, Muslims are the problem. We need to make that distinction.

what do I think gay people should do? I don’t really understand your question? Go about with their lives as they aren’t hurting anyone springs to mind

So you expect that gay people should 'just get on with it' in the face of blatant homophobia? how hypocritical!

Maybe but that’s how we preserve our beliefs, most people of faith (practicing people of faith) marry inside their own faith community.

i don’t agree with taking kids out of sex Ed.

well that’s why music is considered by some to be forbidden

I sais i don’t understand the question? As in what was meant, was it in the face of homophobia? Or was it should they try to ‘not be gay’ sense, I didn’t know or what should gay people do in present day UK when interacting with Muslims. The latter my point stands, do you, unless anyone is actively discriminating or targeting you and then report report report

Honestly this thread is horrifying and I really hope OP has a mental heath break soon because this is relentless. Please look after yourself @Lesschubtolove@Lesschubtolove

But if homosexuality is wrong - as most Muslims seem to believe - then what should gay people do? Be celibate and single their whole lives? Marry someone of the opposite sex anyway?

It proves how fervent anti Muslim sentiment is doesn’t it!

thank you for your kind words

So you meant if someone was Muslim and they felt they had homosexual desires?

I imagine it would be very similar to the Catholic/ CoE stance, view it as a test or trial and a means of drawing closer to God.

^please note that I’ve not researched this particular topic in detail this is just my very simplistic understanding

No, it proves that many people have an issue with the hypocrisy and intolerance peddled by all organised religions. You
misattribute this as anti-muslim because you follow that faith and are predisposed to see critisism of it as an unjust attack. Other religions get the same treatment on here.

I mean if they are gay e.g. exclusively attracted to the same sex.

I mean what do they do.

And I'm not sure why you keep bringing the C of E into it.