To think latent Islamaphobia is as prevalent as ever

[Lesschubtolove]

This is based from several posts I’ve now seen in MN, about burquinis, wearing the hijab, in fact anything vaguely Muslim related on MN and in print media as well as the real world.

Most comments from posters on MN are fairly neutral but there are a fair number that then state some pretty (pulls yikes face) comments, especially about women’s clothing or integration. There also seem to be a lot of misconceptions about what Muslims actually believe.

It seems to me as though yes most people won’t come out and say that they dislike Muslims or think they are stupid, backwards, oppressed (insert adjective here) but the disdain comes out in more subtle ways.

im genuinely quite surprised at the misconceptions I read on MN, but I guess they must apply to real life too, but just that people don’t wish to voice them.

ps I am a Muslim myself. I did an ama a while back

I’m sorry but I don’t see Christianity or Judaism or Sikhism or anything other world religions getting as much of a hard time in the media as Islam and Muslims. Islamaphobic attacks and crimes against Muslims are far more common than against other religious groups (although there does seem to be a rise in anti Jewish hate too)

Well obviously, confirmation bias. You see what you want to see. Christianity is regularly mocked, even on a commercial scale (ever heard of the Book of Mormon)? It's so normalised that it just doesn't register.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/20/what-is-blasphemy-eyes-church-pete-doherty
No retaliation occurs however unlike with Charlie Hebdo.

And as someone from a Muslim country l, growing up around them it is OTHER Muslims ho suffer most. Not you. You're white. You choose to buy into this. But my people who come to the UK to escape the opression dont want to find the same things here.

In our country apostasy is illegal and punishable by death. You also have religious police...

Homophobia keeps being bought into it like it's exclusive to Islamic beliefs to be less accepting of it and viewed as sinful

I can assure you that most of the evangelical churches have exactly the same beliefs. Conversion therapy is not yet illegal in the UK and continues in 2023 in LOTS of religious organisations, not only those of Abrahamic religions

What oppression are you finding here?

i do see a distinction between Charlie Hebdo and book or Mormon or life of Brian, the latter fall more into satire where the former is pure antagonism. But obviously the physical retaliation by people who are clearly mentally unstable and done in the name of Islam is abhorrent and actually an insult to islam.

I’m not sure where you come from, but obviously I don’t suffer there as I don’t live there. But Muslims in the west do suffer discrimination, there is nuance here around skin colour and privilege (because obviously I do have a degree of privilege being white, if I took my scarf off I’m no longer marked as Muslim by my name or colour or culture)

One very deluded OP. As somebody else said, confirmation bias. When it comes to religion, there always seems to be a race to the bottom., when determining which religion is more open to criticism. No one religion is superior to another, so unless you're practising your respective religion, nobody else gives a damn. Don't flatter yourself springs to mind.

One very rude poster, you.

No it’s not a race to the bottom, it’s that a lot of people seem to have an issue with Muslims. Each faith group thinks their religion is the right one or else there’d be no point.

people clearly do care or there wouldn’t be any anti Muslim (or anti Jewish or any other minority religion) sentiment or worse actions

people have been murdered, beaten to death for being Muslim in the west. There was an old man in Birmingham and a pregnant woman in the paris area (those are the 2 that have sprung to mind) I’m sure there are more

Spend some time as a Christian in an Islamic country and you'll see true discrimination.

That’s a race to the bottom? What we can’t state discrimination occurs here because it might be worse elsewhere?

id argue that those countries are not following Islamic guidance on religious pluralism like the early generations of Muslims did and it’s such a goddamn shame, because this isn’t what our religion is about.

oh and btw I have, different countries have different rules. The Saudi I knew from the early 00s is a world away from the Saudi of the present day for instance

Why can’t you answer a single question without immediately saying “well Christianity does X”? there’s an awful lot of deflection coming from you OP

Also do you think that you should be speaking on the oppression of women in Islam with such confidence when you weren’t raised as a Muslim and consequently haven’t had the experience alluded to by other posters - that of a girl born into Islam and raised without actually being able to choose whether she wants to wear hijab or not. You got to choose freely - many girls and women don’t get that luxury.

Because it's whatabouttery, which is a logical fallacy, and is used when people do not have a valid counter-argument. It's lazy and ignorant.

Because Islam often gets singled out as the only religion that has homophobic elements or (insert whatever negative thing we’re discussing) elements in, so I’m pointing out that this isn’t the case.

misogyny homophobia, abuse, corruption can be found in all the worlds religions, Islam included, do I think it is an intrinsic part of Islam or part of its true nature, no. Do I think those things are intrinsic parts of Sikhism? No, Christianity? No etc

A trial of what?

They have three options. Pursue relationships with someone of the same sex, pursue relationships with the opposite sex, never be in a relationship at all. Which do they go with, according to your religion?

So OP why do you think people are Islamophobic?

I can attest to my experience and what i know theologically but that doesn’t invalidate someone else’s experience who may have been treated horribly and forced to do such and such.

what has happened to them is awful but it is not how things should be theologically speaking- it is important to highlight that Islam does not sanction this sort of oppression

Who exactly has said that Islam is the only religion with homophobic elements?

Of course it does, I agree. However you have been incredibly defensive throughout. There are sects of Christianity and Judaism that are supporting gay relationships including gay marriage. I know this for a fact. Islam doesn’t seem to be addressing this, for example.

And both Islam and Catholicism have lots of issues that they often don’t want to address. I know a Catholic who is very troubled by the way the church has dealt with some things, such as the extreme abuse of children. All religious including Islam need to do more.

I think there are prejudices for every group when you stop to look. Women, disabled, people of colour, between the home nationalities etc etc and it's horrible.
Unfortunately Muslims are no exception. I'm not sure what the answer is apart from education, education, education.

Islam needs a reformation, the way that Christianity had one. But it will never happen.

Of course I’ll be defensive over something I hold dear. But I have said there is a growing movement for lgbt friendly mosques, they are in the west, but it’s a step in the right direction

No it doesn’t.

the reformation actually made Christianity more conservative for a good portion of time, it was the enlightenment and secularism that forced western Christianity to modernise and soften.

we actually need to remember our roots, and go back to prior to the foundation of saudi, as after the fall of the Ottoman Empire and colonialism, the Muslim world almost retracted and closed in on itself and more conservative ideologies became widespread

..and gay people and women have been stoned to death in the middle east.

@Lesschubtolove you can't keep saying 'but that is not what Islam stands for' every time some one points out all the negatives. Ultimately all the issues we have with Islam are clearly what it stands for as it is happening all over the world.

I think for this and if you’re wanting to get the prevailing Islamic opinion you might be better off asking at your local mosque. I think the prevailing opinion would say option 2 and 3. But I could be mistaken

trial is a synonym for test here

This thread really highlights the zeal of the convert quite succinctly...