To think latent Islamaphobia is as prevalent as ever

[Lesschubtolove]

This is based from several posts I’ve now seen in MN, about burquinis, wearing the hijab, in fact anything vaguely Muslim related on MN and in print media as well as the real world.

Most comments from posters on MN are fairly neutral but there are a fair number that then state some pretty (pulls yikes face) comments, especially about women’s clothing or integration. There also seem to be a lot of misconceptions about what Muslims actually believe.

It seems to me as though yes most people won’t come out and say that they dislike Muslims or think they are stupid, backwards, oppressed (insert adjective here) but the disdain comes out in more subtle ways.

im genuinely quite surprised at the misconceptions I read on MN, but I guess they must apply to real life too, but just that people don’t wish to voice them.

ps I am a Muslim myself. I did an ama a while back

There is a world of difference in dressing modestly (and some of this can apply to men too.). When we visited Turkey and saw the signs about this in the blue mosque which is an amazing place, men were instructed not to wear shorts.

but to be forced to wear a full covering including the face and hands in a blistering heat like afghanistaan is a completely different concept especially when considering the other terrible restrictions on women, their education and freedom of movement. Fine if Muslim women choose to dress this way, not fine if it is forced on them. Personally I’m glad I can choose how I dress!

So do you think marriage equality will ever happen in a mainstream branch of Islam?

@OnlyFoolsnMothers don't nuns and Jewish people cover?

Ironically my Afghan husband suggested I don't wear the hijab due to Islamophobia and attacks when I said I'm thinking of wearing it.

Ironically my mother in law didn't wear the hijab until she chose to herself at 55. She had a fantastic job and as a teenager wore mini skirts and jeans in Kabul. It was only the extreme American made Taliban that turned Afghanistan into what it is today

This, The history of the UK had very extremist Christianity, we used to burn people at the stake for being witches , one poor man was branded on the forehead , had his tongue pierced through and setenced to life hard labour for heresy. Being hung , drawn and quartered was a thing as was was going on the rack and being literally pulled apart. The last person to be imprisoned for heresy was 1921. Hell no we aren't going back to that , freedom to theologically criticise religion must always remain in a democratic society.

On another note.

While the Europeans were shitting out the window and having monthly baths. Muslims Alhamdilulah were washing 5 times a day

@Red2017

"The majority of those accepting Islam are actually middle class white women and the numbers are only increasing."

Where can I read this information please?

I’ll give you my personal view and then the mainstream Islamic view because some of the things you’ve mentioned are permissible even in the most conservative circles

homosexuality- mainstream view is that acting on the desire is a sin but the desire itself isn’t. My view is, I don’t know. Allahu Allam (god knows best) seems a cop out but that’s what I think. And I think it because i know and I’d say I have gay colleagues, friends, direct reports who I care about. So I do not judge them

ivf- is permissible, I think it’s wonderful that the option exists

abortion is permissible up until just over 4 months unless the mothers life is in danger, I’m glad abortion exists. I believe it is a human right and one no one undertakes on a whim.

sex outside of marriage Islamically is impermissible for men and women, there is no distinction there. I don’t really care what other people do as long as the child is taken care of and loved that is the most important thing. Islamically the child is not to be held responsible for the sins of the parents.

divorcees… Islamically are the same as any other woman, accept she doesn’t need a wali or guardian for marriage, she is her own. I know many divorcees. Don’t really understand the point of this one

@exhaustedlongtime and @Achwheesht

I was in Afghanistan in 2013. It was taught as part of pre deployment training in terms of what to expect from the Afghan military. When access to women is withheld until marriage, I guess the only outlay for their 'urges' are men. And in this case boys. It was well known in Helmand that this was happening.

There was a rape of a young boy in a swimming pool by a young Muslim boy who claimed he couldn't help himself. Or something like that.

Whilst I don't disagree that other religions also abused children - it isn't something that openly continues and is allowed today.

I don’t know, im skeptical if it will in the mainstream branches of Christianity such as Catholic Church or the Church of England

Tbe young boy in the pool was in Germany. A few years ago.

It absolutely isn’t allowed in Islam either, no way.

And your point is?

Patriarchy.

Like I said, the CofE allows blessings which is a huge step from where they were even a decade or so ago. And I'd describe the Church of Scotland as mainstream, seeing as its the biggest Church in Scotland and everything.

@Lesschubtolove but it is though. As it happens openly in Muslim countries.

I do wonder if the OP would be getting grilled on her personal beliefs if she'd posted "do you think christianphobia or whatever the word should be is prevalent?"

Plenty of them also believe in dressing modestly, covering their hair and that non christians burn in hell for eternity, against abortion and lgbtq etc

All religions should be open to critique but there is one that will be bashed the most and one which shares vast amounts of scriptures with it that gets overlooked and challenged less because someone attends a church that doesn't seem as strict and decides the whole faith is therefore more palletable in the modern world

The only countries who still execute for blasphemy are Islamic majority.

Really awfully child sex abuse happens everywhere. It was one of the reasons actually behind the huge movement to ban pornhub, there were a lot of videos of underage girls.

but what you’ve describe happened in Afghanistan under an awful and abusvie regime. It wouldn’t surprise me if isis did the same. BUT you cannot apply that to every single Muslim country and say oh this means child sex abuse is ok in Islam because it doesn’t. A simple google will tell you that. Same Christianity doesn’t sanction grooming or sex abuse just because some Catholic priests did heinous things and the institution covered it up. Come on, I don’t need to tell you this. And this is what I meant by latent prejudice, taking a minority example and holding it up as representative of the mainstream

Like I said, I don’t know. But a blessing may be a step but my friend who was a coe priest saw it as a PR move devoid of any real significance.

Exactly and that was exactly my point inbthe OP. A lot of people, might not come out and say it, esp in public but really aren’t ‘ok’ with Islam and thus Muslims. And hold some quite odd views on what we believe (for instance asking for my stance on divorcees and ivf)

Would you be happy if western women go to Muslim countries in western clothes? I believe you are in a very tolerant country to be honest. In fact I dare to say that is why so many has immigrated here.

It's significant to the people getting the blessings. And I don't know why you keep focusing on the CofE when there are already multiple other denominations that do allow marriage equality. Hopefully Islam will someday go the same way.

'Jesus did cocaine on a night out'....listening to this lyric on the radio (getting down with the kids?)

In modern Britain an almost disdainful approach by the young towards Christianity is occurring and in a more secular country this I believe will become prevalent.

However there is a great deal of trepidation in criticising other religions as they are minority religions and this disparity is not unoticed. It may be that some one who appears 'Islamaphobic' may harbour similar feelings about all religions. It can't be argued that Islam is going to have possibly an equal number of followers as Christianity within the next few decades as the number of Christians nose dived and so is there an argument for scrutinizing this religion and not being afraid of robust criticism of aspects of its nature?

@Highandlows

I think you have a good point in that for all our arguments we are a tolerant country. The Middle East in general isn't and no one can argue about human rights abuses that happen in the gulf states where essentially you have theocracies or oppressive monarchies wedded to certain views of Islam. I think it is easy to debate with moderate Muslims of whom they are many but I think it would be naive to think there aren't more extreme elements (as in all walks of society). It seems reasonable to have a policy of robust scrutiny of any religion or part of society where there may be infringement of our values system including equality and freedom of expression.