To think latent Islamaphobia is as prevalent as ever

[Lesschubtolove]

This is based from several posts I’ve now seen in MN, about burquinis, wearing the hijab, in fact anything vaguely Muslim related on MN and in print media as well as the real world.

Most comments from posters on MN are fairly neutral but there are a fair number that then state some pretty (pulls yikes face) comments, especially about women’s clothing or integration. There also seem to be a lot of misconceptions about what Muslims actually believe.

It seems to me as though yes most people won’t come out and say that they dislike Muslims or think they are stupid, backwards, oppressed (insert adjective here) but the disdain comes out in more subtle ways.

im genuinely quite surprised at the misconceptions I read on MN, but I guess they must apply to real life too, but just that people don’t wish to voice them.

ps I am a Muslim myself. I did an ama a while back

Also I like looking like a Muslim outwardly it shouldn't be something you have to hide

Aren't high heels, mini skirts, corsets and other Western fashions about patriarchal control too?

Exactly, but we now know that’s not right. Just like we know someone can’t help being gay and it’s a natural, very normal thing.

Aren't high heels, mini skirts, corsets and other Western fashions about patriarchal control too?
Just because some women dress this way (definitely not me or my friends) doesn't mean that religion directly instructs them to do so. We're faith about a faith that tells women how to dress.
And not just women - also young girls.

Then what about the treatment of Salman Rushdie and the international translators of the Satanic Verses? The leader of a prominent Islamic state openly called for his murder, and that of anyone associated with the book. Several of them were murdered or seriously attacked. You say that is against Islam but what is Islam if it is not the way it is practiced in the most populous areas?

Are you saying only the tolerant, moderate version of Islam you follow is the correct one? All other forms are perversions of the religion?

I do not understand how any women can choose to wear the hijab whilst any of their sisters are forced to wear it. To me it is like women choosing to be sex workers - their personal experience may be one of choice and benefits, but whilst any women are forced or coerced into it, they are choosing to be part of a wider system that does great damage to women as a whole.

How can you possibly choose to live within a framework that sees men as the head of households and women as weaker, in need of chaperones and protection? Subjugating and restricting women is revolting, whether it’s a within Muslim family or a Christian one or a Jewish one.

I've visited 2 mosques, and I find it striking how, on the ground floor there is a beautiful room for the men to worship in and, in both cases, the women are put in a much less prestigious room elsewhere.
Which tells me everything I need to know about the status of women in Islam.
And that doesn't make me Islamophobic.

Women aren't allowed to pray in front of men as the men might get distracted by the women's arses in front of them. Such a sex obsessed doctrine.

Yes, I agree, but I feel it's indicative that the women's room was perceptably lower status.

I once ran Conversation Classes for women. Most of the Muslim women who attended didn't go to the mosque at all. It was seen as a male thing to do.
I have no problem with Muslims, but find a faith that is blatantly misogynistic unattractive.

And I've never felt that I have to dress up just to pop to the corner shop! Maybe I'm strange for not caring.

Because some women are forced to wear hijab has nothing to do with my right to wear hijab and I would never take it off in solidarity.

The people who come out and talk about womens right for Iran and the right to wear what they like are never present when there is a hijab ban.

All the other stuff you mentioned, I mean muslims can't be reposnsibe for all the actions of other Muslims, most are just getting on with their own life. You could compare it to crimes committed by other people of faith or lack there of, basically wtf has that got to do with the standard muslim.

And with regards to moderate islam I find that term offensive. Would you be happy to be moderately intelligent, moderately competent? I dont know why some Muslims full over themselves to be moderate. What does that term even mean?

If any sisters are struggling with abuse I definitely recommend https://www.solaceuk.org/
And also womens aid are connected with muslim groups.

If your looking for an area to live in the UK when you can be comfortable and live your life how you would like I recommend west London, I'm an agency worker and have to travel sometimes very early, very late, bus, train, walking and I dont feel like I'm being stared out or abused. Its also very multicultural with muslims from different countries.

Mumsnet has always had this latent dislike of Islam. Compare a Muslim AMA to the Jewish AMA and you will see people being polite and asking questions carefully versus people being rude, goading and islamophobic.

Men get less reward praying at home than they do at a masjid whilst women get the reward of praying at the masjid whether they pray at home or there.

Its sinful for men to not pray in congregation for Friday Jummah whereas a women has a choice. Which is actually easier, when I'm working on a Friday I dont have to negotiate a long lunch break and can just pray at work unlike my muslim male colleagues.

This is why there is more prayer spaces for men and it is an obligation for them to pray at the masjid.

So, the problems is that none of the posters on here have condoned the ill-treatment of Muslims.
But yet posters keep on coming back to say they are.
What I read instead are posters who are genuinely concerned about the impact of Islam on Women's freedom. Yet those concerns are thought of a goady .

Why, though, do women get more reward for praying at home? Do you not think there is a misogynistic underlying principle there?

In my opinion, the reason people are so against the hijab is that anything where a woman is expected to display modesty, but men aren't, seems inherently misogynistic, and perpetuating a double standard that is harmful to society.

To this day, being honest, I've never seen anyone explain why the above is not the case. People usually just talk about how it's their choice, which I get, but it doesn't discredit the above.

If it’s about looking after the women, why are the elder women not involved in making the decision? Why is it a male relative, even a brother or cousin, that acts as guardian? Is the knowledge of female elders seen as less valuable than the knowledge of young men? Any way you look at it, it’s misogyny.

As others have said, I also abhor the notion of asking a father for their daughter’s hand, but this is one step further, isn’t it? It’s giving all agency of the dating process to a male relative instead of the woman involved.

It makes me uncomfortable seeing/knowing about:

Muslim women wearing hijabs or burquas.

Sikh men wearing turbans

Seeing men with multiple wives

Seeing men with the attitude that they should be sowing wild oats but their sisters have to remain virgins

Fundamentalist Christian churches that insist in women wearing dresses and some of them covering their hair and men being the head of the household.

Catholic Churches not allowing women priests.

The hair and clothing requirements for both men and women Hasidic Jews.

Plus a few more if I put a bit more thought into it.

I have rather a long list of things I don't like about the treatment of people stemming from organised religion.

Islam is just one of the many culprits.

No one cares if you’re uncomfortable.

Live and let live.

Don’t be so intolerant.

*No one cares if you’re uncomfortable.

Live and let live.

Don’t be so intolerant.*

Well that's not true, because lots of people share their discomfort. The things they've listed there are all highly misogynistic. So no, we won't all just "be tolerant" and ignore that because it happens to be related to a religion. People will be tolerant about things that aren't harmful.

But they can be involved! They just don’t act as the wali on paper

^ also many many many women in the UK have their father give them away and walk them down the aisle, I don’t really see the difference

But they can be involved! They just don’t act as the wali on paper

But why not? What's the excuse for that? What would happen if they tried to?

No when people are raising the negatives im saying sadly it has been interpreted in a sexist, homophobic or insert whatever negative word fits way but I am pointing out that is more a reflection of the regime or person in question rather than the religion.

and when a poster has said they’ve only heard negative things in mosques, im countering that and questioning what sort of facility they have entered as I’ve not heard such things. But if I did I wouldn’t say such and such is necessarily the religion because that is not what I believe, I would think it was the institution and I’d stop attending.

i agree on the good and bad in every religion.

i obviously don’t believe Islam to be a misogynistic faith or else I wouldn’t have joined it

A quick Google has brought up many articles showing that muslim men are indeed expected to dress modestly. Modest clothing is a requirement for men and women. Men are not allowed to wear see through or revealing clothes. Obviously the difference is that women cover their hair (sometimes). I assume this is related to the fact the hair on women is often long and associated with their beauty. On men it tends to be short and not particularly a feature related to sexual attractiveness.
We are all a product of our cultures and live within cultural norms. Many of us today would have completely different views about a women's role if we'd been born in my grandparents era. Views have changed massively in this country in the last few decades.
I remember looking at photos of the suffregettes and thinking despite their fight for women's rights and equality they were all dressed in uncomfortable and impractical clothing like corsets. Their bodies were covered up to their wrists and their ankles. Modern women would absolutely reject this style of dress as being uncomfortable and patriarchal but the suffragettes did not. It just goes to emphasise the power of societal norms.

Yes. But Islamic societal norms haven't changed, have they?