To think latent Islamaphobia is as prevalent as ever

[Lesschubtolove]

This is based from several posts I’ve now seen in MN, about burquinis, wearing the hijab, in fact anything vaguely Muslim related on MN and in print media as well as the real world.

Most comments from posters on MN are fairly neutral but there are a fair number that then state some pretty (pulls yikes face) comments, especially about women’s clothing or integration. There also seem to be a lot of misconceptions about what Muslims actually believe.

It seems to me as though yes most people won’t come out and say that they dislike Muslims or think they are stupid, backwards, oppressed (insert adjective here) but the disdain comes out in more subtle ways.

im genuinely quite surprised at the misconceptions I read on MN, but I guess they must apply to real life too, but just that people don’t wish to voice them.

ps I am a Muslim myself. I did an ama a while back

He never went to war though ever.

Not really no, it is a family decision how that will be dealt with, for us we saved and therefore I could continue contributing financially.

The posts are the start of the start and middle were also incredibly hostile and I don’t know another world religion that faces a similar level of hostility.

i too have been spat at, tutted at, people have shaken their head seeing me walk down the street, I’ve had a man threaten to bottle me. I’ve had friends who have been followed home and threatened walking home from the mosque.

ive found on this thread an odd sense of equivalency, that some Muslims do really shitty things, so it invalidates the islamaphobia and prejudice some Muslims face here

Because he had a different social role. compared to Muhammad he had a small amount of followers in his lifetime.

you May have but others may struggle to save due a variety of factors. So if you weren’t earning and your husband or partner was earning a good wage, you’d think it fair to out of what if any savings you have rather than him cover your expenses (providing he is able)?

when my pay went to the last 3 months my husband took a second job so I wouldn’t have to take money out of my savings.

And if Jesus did go to war, that would not have made him a warlord. In fact parts of his life are still unknown so it’s not something we can say for certain, for instance we still don’t know for sure if he ever married etc.

But Jesus was not anti-war nor was he a complete pacifist. “When you hear of wars and rumours of wars, do not be alarmed; this must take place, but the end is still to come.” (Mark 13:7)

so it invalidates the islamaphobia and prejudice some Muslims face here

I haven’t noticed many (any?) posters saying it’s OK to spit on Muslims, harassing them and the other things you call out. In fact, many have explicitly said they don’t find these behaviours acceptable.

I have noticed many commenters telling you their negative, rationally grounded (so not “phobic”) thoughts on Islam. If you defend Islam on a public forum like this against perfect rational concerns and get pushback, you are not experiencing “Islamophobia”. You are simply engaging in debate.

A lot of the Negative feeling is coming from prejudice and incorrect assumptions though, for instance the poster who thought gori was an Islamic term. It’s not. It might’ve been Muslims that were using it but it’s nothing to do with the religion and everything to do with their culture. Yet that poster has just assumed that because it was Muslims that said it, it has come from Islam and it was therefore one of the reasons she didn’t like Islam.

The religion and the culture go hand in hand though. The lives are very blurry and even Muslims don't always know where the line between religion and culture starts and ends in some respects.

They do whatever works best for them, financially. I'd imagine in a lot of cases the maternity pay and partners wage, or a portion of each, would go into some kind of joint bank account.

But most of the time women are not on maternity leave. Some never go on maternity leave, or sont have a partner when they do, or have a female partner.

Why should men and women be treated differently financially? What if the women earns more than the man, or the man is not working for whatever reason? If the man is on statutory sick pay, is it her duty to look after him financially? If the women never marries or marries another women, why should she still inherit less under the assumption that some man will provide for her?

It's fucked up.

@OMG12 If you have read upthread, I already responded to you about the link that you had shared. This abhorrent stoning of a rape victim by Somali militia is not part of a religion to even imply that a religion, not just Islam would condone that is beyond words. And to continue peddling the same story is Islamaphobic. If you had read about if the Sharia Law was actually enforced as I mentioned upthread then you would have seen that it would have been the rapist who would have been punished. In this situation, just because the victim was punished does not mean that it was the Sharia Law that was wrong but rather the militia who incorrectly enforced the Sharia Law and shot innocent bystanders who tried to help the victim. So I suggested that the link does not show the barbarism.

I’m not sure what this referring to but if you are implying that it is Islam that does not allow Muslim girls to be educated then that too is Islamaphobic as it’s contrary to the teachings of Islam:
As much as our welfare state is struggling, at least we allow girls an education.

At least do some research first on actual Islamic teachings and the context instead of jumping to conclusions.

When I was called gurri I was also spat at, I very much doubt it was a term of endearment especially given the other languages that was used.

As a white non muslim woman I have been treated equally as bad. It isn't just a case of it only happening one way. In the same way you know your experiences were because you were a Muslim I'm sure my experiences are because I wasn't.

While you say Muslims condemn the various attacks of recent years clearly not all do as some attacks such as the AO were carried out by Muslims radicalised in their community. Islamic state is literally commiting atrocities in the name of Islam with a huge following and with people from various countries traveling to join them.

I sympathise with normal people who are Muslim just going about their daily lives recieving such vile treatment, it's wrong but there must be some part of you on some level which understands some of the fear, distrust and adversity to the religion as a whole especially in Western culture?

The posts are the start of the start and middle were also incredibly hostile and I don’t know another world religion that faces a similar level of hostility.

Seriously?

I think a lot or Jewish people would disagree, particularly pupils at Jewish schools who have had to have increased security in recent years.

Or you know, all the people around the world who are persecuted for their religion.

Thanks for your reply. That was a very interesting experience of studying comparative religions! It does not sound anything like my own experience, it seems more faith based rather than academic?
There is a literal difference between a holy book that is the dictated word of God, and must be kept in its original language, and one that is the most widely translated book in the world. You can't believe God has made any mistakes in the Qur'an!
I may misunderstand how much a lay person in Islam is permitted to interpret the holy book for themselves. I do think it not being in the language you use daily must be a bit of a barrier - there was a big stooshy in Christianity over translating bibles from Latin (odder in that case as they certainly weren't written in Latin originally!)

@Cuckoosheep And so why do all Muslims have to condemn something? If one or a group does something that is not representative of their religion. I don’t expect all priests and Christians to condemn the child abuse, it doesn’t mean that they condone it just because they haven’t all come out and vocally condemned it. If you have a moral code, you’d know it’s wrong.

If the woman earns more than the man then it is still his responsibility.

if the woman never marries, then her father or brother should provide for her and she can provide for herself. If she marries another woman? That wouldn’t be recognised Islamically. If he can’t provide for her, it’s grounds for divorce, he’s not entitled to her money, but of course in a loving marriage, you support your partner in good times and bad, that being a bad time but it is viewed as an act of charity on behalf of the woman

The people that said it were Muslim, they had come out of a mosque. I have also heard it periodically through my life in situations where society does mix eg at school where the same people would fast and celebrate eid so yes Muslim. Or are you saying that Muslims wouldnt/ couldn't insult or be racist in such a way and therefore they aren't Muslim or aren't your type of Muslim? Or is it that their religious behaviour is separate from their cultural behaviour?

I did give many other reasons too, all in the name of Islam and all where I have had some personal impact. These are valid reasons for not liking Islam.

Gori, but that’s not an Islamic term. It’s an Asian one (Hindi, Punjabi, urdu). The people who used it just happened to be Muslim, and twats by the sound of it. I’ve been called a gori too, and I’m Muslim so it was because you are a white female (like me) rather than a non Muslim. It doesn’t make it ok, but I’m pointing out it’s not a religious term.

as a white non Muslim you aren’t discriminated against on a systematic level though. I’m not either as I’m not marked as Muslim by my name. You’ve not been the centre of debates on prime time tv and had politicians debate as to whether clothes from your religion should be banned or women from your community likened to letterboxes. So it’s not the same.

come on, you can google condemnation of isis. The Muslim council of Britain condemned them, saudi did too as did many many others.

@Cuckoosheep Gori is a derogatory word for a white woman or girl. It's not an Islamic word, it's origin is Indian, I believe. I've been called it too.

The term gori is not a valid reason for not liking Islam. It’s not an Islamic term. It was used by Muslims but it’s not an Islamic term. Muslims could use the N word but it doesn’t make it an Islamic term. A Muslim can be a racist, although wider discussion to be had if white people be victims of racism, but for arguments sake let’s say they can. A Muslim can be a racist, it doesn’t mean it’s islamically acceptable. I’ve been called a gori and I’m a Muslim

I haven't said all Muslims have to condone atrocities committed in Islam's name or by muslims who hide behind their religion in hope that their actions or opinions won't be challenged for fear of geing labelled islamaphobic. I've said enough don't condeme that allows people to be radicalised and for extremist views to be voiced openly without being challenged so that it can be viewed as normal.

Comparing these actions to others from another religion is a bit of a non point. I've already stated that I think there are good and bad in all walks, I just have had my life impacted more obviously by Islam than RC. The closest I can think of where another terrorist attack in the name of religion had some impact in so much as it was local was the bombing of Manchester City centre however they gave enough warning for the area to be evacuated.

^ it’s a perfectly valid reason though not to like those Muslims

#sorry condemn not condone I'm sure you get the drift

@Tunnockswafer You’re quite right about the Quran being kept in its original version as the early Muslims were adamant in noting everything down. However, there are many translations nowadays but the original is still in Classical Arabic and there are also these Quranic exegesis and the ahadith so the Quran isn’t meant to be read from front to back. For instance there are Makkan Surahs and Medinan Surahs and they were all compiled and it was eventually codified and the former was revealed when Muslims were persecuted at the time so the surahs were very different in times of peace etc. Also, unlike the Bible where it was originally in Latin, the Quran was in Classical Arabic and that was the language the people spoke where it was revealed so of course there didn’t need to be any translations. But rather there would be explanations of context so it would be more interesting to read the history behind when each Sarah was revealed to get an idea of what the reality was like at that time. So that is why a verse can be taken out of the context that it was revealed. From what I understood, the Sharia Law isn’t fully from the Quran but derived from the context and Sunnah which is why it wasn’t codified as laws can change as society evolves over time this was why there were scholars for the different branches of the faith with different specialisms. Nowadays, there are so many different dialects of Arabic and nobody speaks Classical Arabic, sort of like we don’t speak Shakespearean English
but traditional Arabic literature is still written that way.

It was definitely an interesting experience and I loved speaking to my lecturers to find out more about the Old Testament. I was particularly interested in reading
St. Paul’s letters as well as researching about the Council Nicaea as it played a huge part of the Trinitarian faith that has clearly impacted Christianity even now.

That makes no sense. Why does the husband provide for the woman if she earns more money? Why is she provided for by her father and brother and not her mother and sister? What is it about having a vagina that means a woman needs to be provided for by a man?

And how can you see that it's not deeply sexist?