Schools responsibility to more able children

[Rainyrunway]

I have twin DC aged 8. Both are working above the expected level across the board academically according to their teachers. What can I reasonably expect the school to do to accommodate this?
1 isn't too bothered, but the other absolutely hates school because they find it boring. Says the work is constantly repeated and they spend ages going over the same stuff.
This is absolutely not meant as a stealth brag, but I just want them to get back to enjoying school, without a fight for them to go in every day.
I always explain to DC that just because they find maths (for example) easy that doesn't mean everyone else does. In the same way as some kids are amazing at gymnastics while my DC can barely to a forward roll. They do understand this and don't show off as far as I can tell.
But I want them to enjoy school. I want to have a chat with the teacher but I don't want to be unreasonable, as I know she has a lot to deal with and kids with much bigger problems. So how can I address it? I know the school have additional work that can be done at home but this doesn't solve the issue really. It's while they're in the classroom that they're not being challenged at all.
I'm worried that not only are they not fulfilling their potential (either child) at least one is likely to completely switch off if the problem isn't addressed as they no longer enjoy going in at all. We have had school refusals and tummy aches and the like, and I think it's all related.

YANBU but I don’t know the answer I’m afraid. That is how I found school and the schools solution was to set extra more challenging work to be done at home, but you still have to sit through the boring stuff at school and extra homework just felt like a punishment! It gets better at secondary when they are moved into different ability streams.

The school should be facilitating this. When I taught juniors, each child worked through their maths book individually. If they had a problem, they came to see me and if I thought the whole class could benefit, I explained the topic to them all. That way, all the children were working at their own level. It's not too hard doing it that way.

I feel like it is a special educational need in a way. It wasn't so bad last year but they mixed up the forms - I think mainly because the more able kids seemed to be concentrated in 1 class (the one my DCs were in) - and now it's become a lot more of a problem.

YANBU to want your children to enjoy school if they can. There has been a big push in the last decade or so about mastery. Previously, children working above could be given work in lessons that move them on to the next thing (kind of like doing Year 4-level work in Year 3) but these days there is more of a focus on mastery, being able to apply knowledge, explain reasoning etc. This is possibly why your children don't feel they're getting "harder" work.

You can chat with the teacher about it, if only to understand their point of view and be able to help your children get the most out of the lessons they're doing. I'd welcome explaining to a parent about why we do things the way we do, but also realising some pupils may be feeling the pace is a bit slow and thinking about challenge in my lessons.

It's a tricky one, but the teacher should be planning for this one. Do they adapt the work or differentiate (create multiple different tasks for different abilities)? A challenge question/option to take a more independent approach to learning could benefit your two. At least, could they not use a school laptop to access the 'stretch' homework once they have finished the class work?

That is really rubbish. The teacher should be setting work at different levels for different children to ensure no one is left behind or bored and under stimulated. My kids’ school is 2 form entry and has always set class work at 3 levels (mild, medium, spicy).

Post covid the gap has widened so my kids’ classes are now combined with the other class and then all split based on ability to do maths and English at the right level in the morning. Then they come back together for topic work with their normal class in the afternoon.

They also have ‘intervention’ where small groups are pulled out a couple of times a week for either additional support or extension work. This has been great for my kids, who were both a bit bored, and I assume is better for the kids who were struggling to keep up.

This is a London state school with very mixed intake. Kids are 7 and 8.

This is not how Maths is taught now, sadly.

In most schools now, all children are expected to do the same work and they follow something like white rose maths. Ideally there should be support for the less able and challenge for the more able. Repetition is used a lot to embed basic concepts.

With the state of school funding as it is, there are far fewer resources in schools, fewer TAs in classes, and teachers are stretched too far. They cannot tailor make lessons to smaller groups of children. Blame the government.

There should be activities provided for the more able children to move on to but the whole class teaching will be designed to address the middles.

Is there really nothing at all provided for those who complete the set work easily? I find that hard to picture, but if it's the case then you are right to bring it up.

I found this page which had some useful information when I was choosing a school:
https://www.goodschoolsguide.co.uk/choosing-a-school/educating-the-gifted-child
That says the school should have a written policy that you can request. I'm not sure if it would only apply to those identified as 'the most able' in a specific way, I would hope it would cover all kids who are ahead in one or a set of subjects to keep them engaged.

Yeah ours is a London state school as well. And they do have "intervention" type small groups. But just for the kids that are struggling to keep up. There doesn't seem to be anything for the ones who are bored. I almost feel bad questioning it really. I know lots of people probably feel like I'm boasting. I'm not though I just want my kids to like school.

With my more able children, we found resources outside of school to provide them with the academic stretch and enrichment and then they used the school time for repetition and drilling to improve their speed (that how we explained it to them). Also told the dc that school was v important for learning social skills and how to get along in a classroom. That helped somewhat.

Well, school is often boring for a wide range of kids. It's hard for them to get the right balance for every kid. I have a very capable kid who gets bored. He's not given work that's too easy, he just finds work boring! School give higher level work sheets to stretch the kids. The other child finds some things easier, some things harder, but all learning is "boring" apparently.

For my eldest there is not enough sport and too much English. For my youngest there is not enough music and play time, and too much maths

For your kids it sounds like there is not enough academic work at a high level.

There will always be something there is not enough of, at every school, for most kids.

Unless the school is v poor, or your children are brighter than the brightest kids in the year above, then I'd just leave it. School is generally, sadly, pretty boring for a lot of kids. It's about teaching them how they can find some interest in what they are doing. If the maths is too easy, suggest to them they tell the teacher in that particular lesson and ask for a higher level worksheet, or suggest they use the time left over after answering all the easy questions, to start writing down their own maths problems or paying some maths games on paper. If English tasks are too easy, encourage them to be more creative, find what part of English they are weaker at and get them to focus on that in class. If they are writing a story, ask your kid what would make that story harder and encourage them to practice next lesson.

I'm of the school of thought themat there is something to be learnt in every situation. If school was boring today, ask kid to keep a diary of what was boring, why, and what they could have done differently in that situation to make it more interesting for themself.

If your child is genuinely exceptional, so outperforming the children in the year above, maybe they need to move up a year.

If your child doesn't fit in to the very small box that state school caters for then sadly your child will suffer. This is at both ends of the spectrum. Kids with SEN, gifted and talented etc etc will all suffer in state school as they are under funded and under staffed and the teachers don't have enough time or resources to cater to all children. If your children are that gifted then I would try and private. Either by paying or scholarships.

This is not how Maths is taught now, sadly

Well, I have been retired for 20 odd years so I suppose things have changed. Still, there should be provision to enable each child to progress. I don't know how the modern system would work in a mixed ability class. You could work through the concepts at home, but that wouldn't help at school. In fact it would be a disadvantage. Ask the teacher what she suggests.

I don't know, I really would use it as a learning curve. There will be times in future employment when your child has to sit through all the mundane and easy stuff and tolerate the boredom! I have a PhD, I write particular reports for my job frequently that require ploughing through 'easy' mundane tasks before the more meaty and interesting bits! It's a skill! I've also done some really dull work as a teenager! This is a v good opportunity for your child to learn to tolerate boredom and find interest in even the most mundane tasks! Help them learn to communicate themself with the teacher, to assert their needs and preferences in a polite way. Help them learn to find ways to stretch themself in each lesson without giving up and thinking 'oh this is sooo easy and boring'. If they can't do those things yet, then those are the very things they need to focus their attention on.

We all have strengths and weaknesses. Finding a maths sheet boring just means kid needs to find a way to either better communicate with the teacher so they can be given a harder task, find interest in the boring bits, find a way to make the actual task more appealing, or find a way to tolerate the boredom because of X, Y, Z...

I've noticed a real difference at our London state primary with how they deal with more able children between my two DC - 5 years apart.

DC1 - in a very able class, plenty of extension work, teaching in general was to a higher level and the bright kids just bounced off each other. Lots of interesting co-curricular.

DC2 - just as able as DC1, but we've had funding cuts and covid in between. Not such an able class and I feel that DC2 is very behind where DC1 was at the same age. Post-covid intervention work all seemed to be aimed at bringing children who had fallen behind back up to speed - DC2 didn't really fall behind so spent a good couple of years treading water. Funding cuts and teacher focus on covid intervention means co-curricular has fallen off a cliff.

Sadly it doesn't improve in secondary school. They might be banded into ability but if you're still at the top of the top ability, you'll just get chucked old exam papers to do while everyone finishes, then get told off for doing nothing once you've done those.

The number of phonecalls where we just went round in circles:
"daffodilchild was just sitting doing nothing for half the lesson"
"Did she finish her work?"
"Yes"
"Did you give her extra work"
"Yes but she finished that and sat around doing nothing"
"Did you give her anything else to do"
"I didn't have anything else, she can't go too far ahead"

It just seems kid of sad. I understand that if I was the parent of a kid who was behind, then I'd totally see that as a more important focus for the teacher. But it still matters that the kids who are finding it easier like school as well.
And for PP suggesting that we focus on the harder stuff at home - I'm not a teacher. And I'm not particularly academic myself either. And we sadly can't afford private school. Not an option at all. I do lots of stuff with the kids outside of school, but honestly none of it is academic really except for reading. And if we were to study and get ahead to encourage DCs interest wouldn't that just make class time worse anyway?
I would be happy with harder worksheets while the others are going over the easier stuff, with maybe the odd intervention group. They did do this, but only once in year 2 and once this year. Nothing since. If they could maybe do it once every couple of weeks for an hour or something that would probably help. I guess all the funding is being used elsewhere.

The main problem is the curriculum and the way that schools are now required to teach it.

Believe it or not, what's in the curriculum is actually really difficult and not age-appropriate in any way for the majority of children. It is also quite knowledge-focussed for the foundation subjects. This, combined with mastery teaching (an emphasis on ensuring that ALL children get it and don't get left behind), means that teachers are essentially forced into a way of teaching that goes really slowly through the content so that all the children are picking it up and mastering it really well. There are ways to extend more able pupils within the same content but frankly, I often feel so exhaused by the constant, unreleting focus on special needs and the ones that aren't getting it that I sometimes don't have a lot left for those at the top. There is nothing wrong with focusing on the SEND kids by the way - it's just that kids seem to be becoming more and more needy and our class size are huge (35 in my school) so it can easily overwhelm.

Another factor is that a lot of the content is just really bloody boring. There are things I want to teach which are inspiring and which I know would fully engage the children but I'm not allowed because it's 'not in the curriculum' and we need all the time we've got to teach the stuff that is in there. Frankly, I am bored of teaching some of this shit and the kids are bored of hearing about it. I do a lot of 'cover teaching' now and I find that a lot of the lessons I'm given to cover are just very 'chalk and talk' - I tell them about something, they listen, and the task is to remember and regurgitate what I've said. We seem to have gone back to an 'empty vessels' model of teaching rather than the constrictivism I learned about at uni. Boring, boring, boring.

Anyway, I think the answer is probably to support teachers in calling for curriculum change. Meanwhile, I'm looking for a new job - outside teaching.

They should be able to adapt but not go too far. It’s a difficult balancing act I know. DS was doing year 6 maths for a chunk of year 5 and they gave him an sats paper to try just to gauge his level. It’s a difficult one though as kids develop at different spends and I know in year 2 or 3 his friend was way ahead in reading and is now just expected level.

OP you need to be really enabling this at home too. What are you doing at home to support them, push them, stretch them? It's not just the schools issue.

Your kids need to learn that they need to be patient as well. 8 is still young and the slower learners might pass them by later on, 8 is still early. Learning some humility and being able to work hard, and realising that being smart is not going to be enough are all issues you'll have to help them develop as well - alongside helping others who might be struggling, and also extending their own learning. Of course they're only 8! - so a lot of that might be a bit beyond them as of yet, but lots can be done at home as well as school.

Schools should challenge ALL pupils. For gifted and talented children inmate for example, problem solving activities should be assigned to pupils to gain a ‘greater depth’ understanding. I’d be having a word with the teacher to set more challenging work. They can’t teach content outside of their year group/key stage but they can set appropriately challenging work that interests and offers challenge to children. It’s a teachers job and the reason they work 100 hour weeks. I speak from experience!

‘In maths’ not ‘inmate’

I let my kids have an extra hour on YouTube if it's a specific history or science topic for example, you don't have to be academic to do that. I keep my eye on what they're watching, they find it enter and their knowledge in those areas is coming on really fast, all extra stuff to school. One of my kids corrected the teacher the other day and she had to look it up to realise it was correct, and it was from his science videos that he watched!

There's khan academy and all sorts of you want an easy way to direct them to great content.

@Lostmum2407 and do you think they SHOULD be working 100 hours a week? Even if they have their own kids at home to worry about? This is the perennial problem in teaching - the constant 'you must do this because it's for the kids' - well, the line has to be drawn somewhere. You have no idea about the context of this class or their needs.

This is why I’m no longer a teacher! There’s no end for t they’re workload. However, teachers SHOULD plan challenging activities for all pupils. That comes before the copious amounts of paper work for the sake of paper work. I believe it’s incredibly important to cater for all children with quality first teaching. If teachers don’t want to spend hours working then they should find another job like I did. That’s the job these days! Like it or lump it. Even better, the government should take away unrealistic expectations and Ofsted should be abolished. Teachers work incredibly hard and I respect all of those who always put children first. Most do so above their own needs.