Schools responsibility to more able children

[Rainyrunway]

I have twin DC aged 8. Both are working above the expected level across the board academically according to their teachers. What can I reasonably expect the school to do to accommodate this?
1 isn't too bothered, but the other absolutely hates school because they find it boring. Says the work is constantly repeated and they spend ages going over the same stuff.
This is absolutely not meant as a stealth brag, but I just want them to get back to enjoying school, without a fight for them to go in every day.
I always explain to DC that just because they find maths (for example) easy that doesn't mean everyone else does. In the same way as some kids are amazing at gymnastics while my DC can barely to a forward roll. They do understand this and don't show off as far as I can tell.
But I want them to enjoy school. I want to have a chat with the teacher but I don't want to be unreasonable, as I know she has a lot to deal with and kids with much bigger problems. So how can I address it? I know the school have additional work that can be done at home but this doesn't solve the issue really. It's while they're in the classroom that they're not being challenged at all.
I'm worried that not only are they not fulfilling their potential (either child) at least one is likely to completely switch off if the problem isn't addressed as they no longer enjoy going in at all. We have had school refusals and tummy aches and the like, and I think it's all related.

if a parent came in to complain their child felt bored at the top, I'd happily provide more extension tasks, but at the expense of less support for the lowest. I can't do it all.

Hypothetical question. If that shifted the balance of your attention from 80% less able/ 20% more, to 70/30, would that be unfair?

This is what parents of more able children find hard, their children almost continually get far less of the teacher's attention, throughout education.

I think if you want them stretched, you have to do it yourself. I took mine to hobbies outside of school and I took my eldest to a maths centre one hour a week and it took him from an average maths child, to 9 at GCSE and performing really well at A level so far.

I learnt ages ago that you can’t rely on the schools, you have to add on to your DC’s education yourself with books, maths and hobbies.

My DC's primary school had in-class extension work, for the more able kids... They called them "spicy challenges" 🤣. They still had to sit through the explanation at the start of the lesson (they complained it was often repetition and too slow) and do the regular work with everyone else, but then could move onto the more challenging task.

In maths specifically, they had a table for the more able kids or removed them from each class (4 form entry) to teach them separately. In year 4 and up they also had a lunch time maths club, oddly (against the stereotype at any rate) all the kids really wanted to be invited to go to it (they did have biscuits 🤣)

@HollyBookBlue I'd love it if they had the more able kids together working on maybe slightly higher level or something. Up till year 2 they did sort of but it just randomly happened that the more able kids were clustered in 1 class out of the 3 in the year group. They mixed them up at the start of year 3 so that ability was spread evenly across the year.

All of this, sadly. Really well put @Quinoawoman and this is why I'm leaving the profession after 30 years at the chalk face. I can no longer face teaching such an unsuitable, un-child friendly, knowledge heavy, prescriptive, irrelevant and quite frankly, pitched too high curriculum. No wonder behaviour is declining. Children are being set up to fail. Planning takes longer than ever with every lesson requiring a lengthy PowerPoint or similar and with fewer resources and TAs, and increasing numbers of children with SEND, the job has become untenable (well, for me, anyway).

My DC school had this when he was younger. He would fly through work and then be bored when waiting for others to finish, sometimes chatting and disrupting others while they tried to work, which is totally unacceptable and unfair to the others. This started when he was about 7 years old.

Met with his teacher when this started happening and we brainstormed, came up with the idea of a project table. There were 3 in the class that were academically ahead and once their work was done, it was agreed they would get up and go to the project table without disturbing the others. They worked on various projects that involved research, presentation making etc. and some additional work to do at home which DC loved. They also had a book club between the 3 of them which they loved! It made ALL the difference to everyone in the class. Could you suggest something like this?

Every teacher after this kept up the project table until he left the school last year. Still so glad these lovely teachers cared so much to find a solution for all the kids in class, honestly such an amazing school, I was irrationally sad when he finished!

I was always very good at English and reading etc and finished well before the rest of the class so my teacher would have given me extra worksheets to fill in or other small tasks to do to fill the time. She also got different books etc in for me to read in those spare moments so I didn't get bored and gave me responsibilities within the classroom when I'd finished early provided my work was okay. I now run an education centre for kids with widely ranging abilities ( most aren't in school for reasons that are nothing to do with academic abilities ) it's absolutely doable it just requires an individualised approach and some back up planning on the part of the teacher. I'd ask to chat with the teacher and see what you can come up with together. If it's compromising your child's willingness to attend school etc then it needs to be addressed.

Oooh, and books, lots of extra books that they can bring to school. My DC used to bring sudoku and puzzle books and sketch books etc. too that he could pull out when they were done with the regular class work. He still does this as a teen in school now.

At my DC state primary school, they seem to be coping with the diversity and ability in the class. Having just gone through SATs, they were very keen on stretching children who should be near or easily achieving greater depth - it’s all good stats for the school and progress scores. It’s going to really vary by teacher/class but I don’t think it’s the case schools don’t routinely stretch children and are only focused on those struggling. It’s something OFSTED also pick up on.

Totally agree with this, I know a bit of an individualised approach can add to the already stretched workload of teachers but small things like this really make the difference. My DC was the designated photocopier! Also watered plants and tidied nature tables. Was sent to other classrooms with notes to other teachers... one teacher admitted that sometimes the note might just say 'Just need to entertain Toxcity's DC for 10mins'! 🤣 They were the best group of teachers you could ask for.

Right.
So in that case, because every single child in my class deserves to have their needs met, I absolutely have to do this for every child.

In an ideal world.
Would you like to find me more hours in the day, more energy and more support for me to actually achieve that?

I mean honestly, I don't just focus on the lowest.
I do try my absolute best to challenge my higher children. I'd say I achieve that probably 60-70% of the time. It's not good enough really, I know that.
Some lessons I focus more on getting their level right.
Other lessons I focus on the lowest.
I do try to balance it.

I have one child who is exceptional and could easily access high school maths.
I give him SATs arithmetic books and puzzles to do if it's a lesson I know he can do.

It's not easy though.

Why don't primary schools stream kids according to their levels, particularly in maths, but possible in English too? Might not be so easy if one form entry but for bigger schools like 2 and 3 form entries you could easily split them into top, middle and bottom (obviously you wouldn't call them that)

Majority of dc in my dc class at primary were working “above expectations” with about 1/4 Working at “greater depth”. My twins were predicted “expected” in their SATs and surprised the teachers by getting “greater depth”.

school will be stretching them if it’s been identified but you can’t fully teach attitude to learning; it needs to be ingrained at home. Even if it’s “boring”.

@YSWIM because at that age it changes a lot. I say this as the mum of the twins due in October but born 30 August so very much the youngest in the year. They needed to be immersed in learning opportunities and by year 6 they were achieving great results. If they’d been streamed they wouldn’t have had the same opportunities because teachers didn’t see their potential as they were on the trajectory set out early on and their teachers always just accepted that was their aim and nothing more. Dtd1 is now predicted 8s and 9s at gcse and dtd 2 7s and 8s. Primary predicted they’d scrape their SATs - they actually achieved much higher.

Must have been tough for you all but that is lovely to hear. Our primary do adaptive assessments at least once a half term, so they could easily change sets as and when. That way the lowest performing kids can really have the much needed help and the higher performing ones be stretched. Guess it's not so cost effective for the schools though as they care about the overall performance to raise rather than really challenging those who need it. "They will do well in SATs whether or not they get extra challenge.

Because basically ofstead don't like it!

Ofsted not ofstead!

Would you like to find me more hours in the day, more energy and more support for me to actually achieve that?

@Muddygreenfingers I'd like the government to realise its impossible for all children to reach the same level unless that level is set too low for all but those of lowest academic ability.

I'd like teachers to be able/allowed to divide what little attention, TA time, intervention timd they can spare evenly across the class.

My 6 year old never gets to read with the teacher or TA. About once a term. The kids struggling read 2 or 3 times a week. This means a) my kid misses the only 1 on 1 time a kid ever gets with the teacher, that only opportunity for the teacher to see how they tick a bit. b) the teacher never actually assesses my kids reading, so they are regularly left on books that aren't suitable.

It's not fair. I know nothing is fair but I can't explain to my 6 year old why he gets less of his teacher's attention than his peers.

Placemarking

My ds is autistic so he has help in school to understand instructions and with his speech delay and social skills but he is miles ahead in maths and reading, he’s only 5 and knows his times tables. He will tell me which numbers fit into what and how many times and I have to check with a calculator 😂 and he was reading before he even started school. The school help where he is behind and needs support but unfortunately there’s no push to advance the things he’s ahead with so we do it at home and the same goes for my eldest.
It’s obviously worth going to the school with your concerns first but if you feel like they aren’t being challenged enough still you can do it at home. There’s so much information online on pretty much every subject even YouTube videos could help further their knowledge on topics they’re interested in if you can’t do it yourself and there’s plenty of apps that you can use to print work sheets off or maybe gets some tips from some home educating mums. I think schools ideally want most children to reach certain set targets by certain times but unfortunately don’t have the time, resources or funding to push the ones that are already excelling.

I'd love a smaller class size. I haven't had less than 30 in a class for years.

Our year 6 class is only 15 yet I've got two year groups together of 30 children.

That's village schools for you 🥴

Have a look online. Bbc bitesize isn't bad - my kids are using it for Hugh school topics. Friend uses white rose maths. Another pays kumon

I seriously don't know what you are expecting. It's sad but it is the way Quino explains, focusing on repeat, mastery, making sure the SEN keep up.
And it will be this way for the 10 years for your child. They can't learn the stuff from the year ahead, so they are just going to have to deal with it. Sad, but what is the alternative. Even in a private school, you still do GCSE's and then A'levels at a set time. Other than getting 3 x A* and getting into Oxbridge, what are you hoping they achieve?

What do an indie / grammar or academic school that pp's listed do differently? My ds1 was at a good local school with many many gifted children in the top sets. These type of children who get 99% in practically every maths exam they do, all the way through schooling. Many get all A's at GCSE, 3 A* Alevel's and the top Uni for their chosen subject.

Are you on the gifted threads? What else are they suggesting you do?