Schools responsibility to more able children

[Rainyrunway]

I have twin DC aged 8. Both are working above the expected level across the board academically according to their teachers. What can I reasonably expect the school to do to accommodate this?
1 isn't too bothered, but the other absolutely hates school because they find it boring. Says the work is constantly repeated and they spend ages going over the same stuff.
This is absolutely not meant as a stealth brag, but I just want them to get back to enjoying school, without a fight for them to go in every day.
I always explain to DC that just because they find maths (for example) easy that doesn't mean everyone else does. In the same way as some kids are amazing at gymnastics while my DC can barely to a forward roll. They do understand this and don't show off as far as I can tell.
But I want them to enjoy school. I want to have a chat with the teacher but I don't want to be unreasonable, as I know she has a lot to deal with and kids with much bigger problems. So how can I address it? I know the school have additional work that can be done at home but this doesn't solve the issue really. It's while they're in the classroom that they're not being challenged at all.
I'm worried that not only are they not fulfilling their potential (either child) at least one is likely to completely switch off if the problem isn't addressed as they no longer enjoy going in at all. We have had school refusals and tummy aches and the like, and I think it's all related.

I guess you do what those of us with kids with SEND do: live with inadequate provision, find a private setting that suits them or take them out and home educate.

The truth is that school is not designed for kids whose needs fall outside a particular box and therefore whether your kid is unusually able or has significant difficulties with learning you will likely have to make a choice to pay up or put up.

The school aren't going to help you with this ever.
Sorry

@ Fresh foods

I remember teaching maths in the way you describe. I was thinking about this as I was looking back the other day. In this way each child progresses at their own rate and the brightest suitably extended. I retired 20 years ago but not soon enough to escape the farce of the Numeracy Strategy… one lesson with three levels of differentiation followed by a plenary where one child could easily confuse the whole room.
I worked my socks off to make each new initiative work at classroom level only to see the whole lot chucked out of the window to embrace some other new idea. The prize example being the peer reading programme. Each tutor teamed with a tutee to advance ready, so new, hot from Australia, so got to
be good… but my first school did this over fifty years ago called leader reader.
Every thing comes around again if you wait long enough. OK, rant over 🥴

Yes I did write to my MP and received an unacceptable response. Teachers leaving in their droves due to workload is a positive thing for future teachers as it will show something needs to be done. You sound bitter. Good luck, there are jobs out there where the management actually care about their employees.

Our primary school sat different abilities on different tables and they were given stretch tasks to do once they'd done the work the class as a whole had been set. They had small class sizes but was a state school.

@Quinoawoman you’ve said it right here by putting ‘those at the top’ in a different category. It’s about your phrasing
“There are ways to extend more able pupils within the same content but frankly, I often feel so exhaused by the constant, unreleting focus on special needs and the ones that aren't getting it that I sometimes don't have a lot left for those at the top”

and to those saying high ability isn’t a SEN need, it actually is categorised as this but you’re talking unusually high IQ, not just those top of the ‘normal range’

Seems a bit weird if nothing is happening. My son has been doing secondary school maths textbooks since P4 (Scotland). He is now in P6 and says there are different levels of textbooks being used throughout his class. I think he is left to it a bit as primary teachers can't be expected to 'teach' the maths level he is doing but they try their best with problem solving worksheets and he helps out other kids in the class with their maths (he loves this and the other kids seem to appreciate it, I know 'helping your peers' is seen as a bit lame of the teacher by some parents but they are all happy and I think it's good for my son to be able to explain things and he seems genuinely happy when he's helped another kid to have that lightbulb moment); he had a sixth form pupil come in once a week to do algebra with him but that lasted a few weeks as the lad had to go do his exams. My son sometimes helps out a younger boy in P3 who is showing a high aptitude for maths, they just have a half hour now and again where my son can tell the younger boy about any maths thing he fancies, last time he taught him about 'pi' and they tried to calculate the volume of their own heads. I get the impression that the school are kind of now 'treading water' with my son and his maths until he gets to secondary school in just over a year. I think that's fine! If he'd kept on the same trajectory as a few years ago he'd have been doing his Higher maths exam years too early, I don't know if that's even allowed but it isn't something I would have wanted for him anyway. I got moved up 1 year in primary school due to being smarter than the average bear. I don't think it made any difference other than I appreciated that they'd tried, the work was still easy, I was still bored and then I was too young to get into pubs when I went to university!

@Quinoawoman there also definitely isn’t an unrelenting focus on special needs. There may be a focus on a very small amount of children with SEN who are lucky enough to have been identified which is often because they are disruptive. If you teach primary the majority won’t have actually had their SEN identified

@Rainyrunway this is what I liked about the American education system. Children who excelled were put in Honors classes and those that really excelled were put in AP classes. When I was in 8th grade two children in my class really excelled at maths and were taken to the local high school for AP classes which counted for college credits.

Theres not much you can do in school. Teachers only have so much time.

We located external teaching that is at the right level (I have a ten year old who does year 9 English and year 8 maths). In school I told her to finish what the teacher gives her and then work on her art or mental imagination of stories. Her focus at school is to learn social skills. Her teacher tries to throw hard puzzles her way - but with a class where some kids lost most learning time in Covid, she’s got enough on her plate.

Needless to say that we’re very focussed on finding the right secondary school, and any that don’t at least set for maths are off the list!

I feel like it is a special educational need in a way.

It really isn’t. Legally, exceptionally ability is not a SEN. Case law demonstrates this.

I'm a primary school teacher.

I teach to the whole class and then the expectation from the school is that there are differentiated challenges which the kids pick (or
sometimes I choose for them).

I have some very bright children in my class and they are all extended in this way.

In lessons like science I differentiate by, for example, printing out sheets for the lower ability children to write on but would expect the more able ones to write everything out themselves.

Plus I often have an extra question/challenge which all the children can attempt in their own way as just because a child struggles to write doesn't mean they are not able!

And I have over 30 in the class so it's a lot of work but does meet the needs of the kids.

The school will do absolutely bugger all to help very able children in my experience. This was ds. However when he starts to behave really badly because he is so pissed off with boredom he will also never be disciplined and most certainly will never be excluded as the school want to claim those amazing grades. After he has got the best grades in the mediocre school, they will be surprised when he leaves and joins the grammar school 6th form.

My DD was in this position in primary too and she was allowed to read/do a French workbook when she had finished her class work. This was a long time ago though and my youngers didnt have this problem at all so I dont know if that's allowed now.

You mentioned private school. We managed to get DD scholarships and a bursary for private secondary which improved the situation quite a bit (v bright kids are always going to be a bit bored and need to learn to tolerate that). Might that be an option if you cant afford it? They'll be information about scholarships on each schools website, bursary information you might have to call/email over but there should be something there at least signposting you. Unlikely to get 100% of the fees but depending on your income and her ability bursaries can be huge.

Being academically able is not a form of SEN. A child has SEN if they have a learning difficulty or a disability which means they require a special provision. As I've already said, your kids deserve to be challenged and enjoy school, so I appreciate your predicament, but claiming that being clever is, in itself, a special educational need is tone deaf.

Teachers should be facilitating extension work but also be aware that able children may learn quickly (and bore quickly) but they can easily form gaps in knowledge if they gallop ahead without fully mastering. It's the adage that education is a marathon not a sprint, better to get as best as possible at each stage. I also have found that able children (i have one) tend to want to focus on workbooks and levels, rather than the skills of writing, reports, etc. my DD's teacher wanted her to do further work on that topic not a second or third (my dd wanted instead would want just to do more maths)

and to those saying high ability isn’t a SEN need, it actually is categorised as this

Categorised where? "Giftedness" or high ability does not legally fall in the category of SEN in the UK.

You have to change schools to a better one. I had this problem growing up, I started getting loads of poor grades and detentions suddenly around age 9-10 because I was so bored I stopped paying attention as I could do the work in 5 minutes. We moved house so my parents could get me into a much better school. It worked.

And by the way children can be a "send kid" and extremely gifted and talented. My dd was gcse level in maths by year 5 in primary school, she had already reach grade 6 on two instruments and voice by year 6, plus grade 5 theory of which she was the youngest sitting it by 4 years (she was 9) yet her social skills were that of a toddler and she had frequent tantrums. Yes she's autistic, challenging to teach isn't half of it! She is now an adult and was mainstream educated with support throughout

@VestaTilley

Most parts of the country do not have state grammar schools, I've never lived in grammar areas

It sounds like the school aren't catering to the most able ones at maths. They did a good job of this in my dcs normal state primary. A friend's dc is doing a maths degree and got A* at A level and the mum was happy with how he was catered for at primary and at their comp

From experience, it all depends on the HT of the school. Really gifted HT's seek attract and keep the best teachers ; and lively enthusiastic teachers enjoy the stimulus of very bright pupils (on a personal level, and for the whole class).

Our children attended four state schools, two of which were excellent with bright kids and two dull and utterly depressing.

This is how we do it in my school too. We teach to the whole class, i.e., the middle, with support for lower ability and challenges for anyone who has completed the main learning activity. Challenges are ranked according to how much of stretch they are - Challenge, Greater Depth, Master Level - and you can't do the next one without completing the one below it. Some children will complete the work and all three levels of challenge, some will just complete the work, some will complete the work and 1-2 levels of challenge. Surprisingly, it's not always the same children.

Could your child move into the year above? So effectively skip a year?

I skipped a year at school (I'm 40 now!) and my best friend did too. We were both born early in the year, so one of the older kids. I did my gcses and a levels a year early then took a gap year before Uni.

Failing that, have a chat with local private schools about scholarships?

Ok so "giftedness" isn't categorised as SEN in the UK. I'm not sure that should mean that we just don't worry about those kids needs though.
I mean I don't actually know if my kids are "gifted" anyway. I suspect the bar is probably set higher than they are for that label but at least one of them is definitely struggling and it's affecting them emotionally. That should matter. It's not fair that kids are given extra work (I did check in with them after school today and they ARE given harder worksheets) but that if they finish those they're just expected to sit quietly. Id be bored out of my brain too! Feels like we're just setting up bigger problems for them as they get older. Like I said it doesn't have to cost the teacher a lot of time. I'd be happy with them being allowed to read a book or even given a task to help the teacher. (They are sometimes asked to help explain things to other kids on their tables which they quite like doing)
I am NOT a pushy parent. I dont want them moved up a year or anything - do schools do that still? - because I think their emotional and social development is more important than their academic at this age. I just don't want them to hate school. And like I said before I really do like their teacher, I'm not having a go at her or anything, I just want to know if there is anything the school can or should do really.