Schools responsibility to more able children

[Rainyrunway]

I have twin DC aged 8. Both are working above the expected level across the board academically according to their teachers. What can I reasonably expect the school to do to accommodate this?
1 isn't too bothered, but the other absolutely hates school because they find it boring. Says the work is constantly repeated and they spend ages going over the same stuff.
This is absolutely not meant as a stealth brag, but I just want them to get back to enjoying school, without a fight for them to go in every day.
I always explain to DC that just because they find maths (for example) easy that doesn't mean everyone else does. In the same way as some kids are amazing at gymnastics while my DC can barely to a forward roll. They do understand this and don't show off as far as I can tell.
But I want them to enjoy school. I want to have a chat with the teacher but I don't want to be unreasonable, as I know she has a lot to deal with and kids with much bigger problems. So how can I address it? I know the school have additional work that can be done at home but this doesn't solve the issue really. It's while they're in the classroom that they're not being challenged at all.
I'm worried that not only are they not fulfilling their potential (either child) at least one is likely to completely switch off if the problem isn't addressed as they no longer enjoy going in at all. We have had school refusals and tummy aches and the like, and I think it's all related.

And yeah, a lot of gifted kids are also autistic and/or adhd. Schools aren't built for them - it's often about giving them the tools to survive the boredom.

We've dealt with this for the past 7 years since reception. Highly able DS, no extension work because they put emphasis on "mastery"🙄 I hear things are different in the private sector but not much luck in the state(at least in our case). Thankfully off to a super selective grammar so things should start to change for the better.

I'm a teacher and always have a challenge activity for the early finishers in Maths. That's just good practice and expected.

In English, it is largely differentiated by outcome and expectation.

I think feel free to ask the teacher but be aware that I have had several parents approach me over the years and then slink away looking embarrassed once I show them all of the challenges and extensions provided, all of the lessons their child didn't reach the challenge, the work they got wrong on the day they said they were bored etc.

Mastery doesn't mean that you can't challenge pupils.

If your school are telling you that, they're wrong. It's about depth rather than extension but certainly challenging.

Not about you specifically, but is my experience of children, including own DD.
she constantly said school was boring, especially maths. What she really meant was once she had completed the same work as the rest of the class she wanted to just play on a computer rather than complete any extension tasks. She actually thought being given extra tasks was unfair too.
She was worse at secondary school but fortunately did very well, got A*s in 3 different maths A levels and is now a highly paid corporate tax advisor. She still says she’s bored though 🤣

My son’s school used to set harder work once the first lot of work had been completed but my son cba with doing something he found easy 40 times so he never got onto the harder stuff.

Agree and want to reiterate the following points. It is ill informed and potentially offensive to state that kids are able for being academically talented. For a whole host of reasons, including that some children with SEN can have 'spiky profiles' and be very advanced in certain academic areas. Being very highly academically advanced due to a natural inclination in a subject does bring challenges for those kids and I disagree in principle that there are no specific legal obligations for them, but it needs to be seen in the context of kids with SEN currently not having their needs met, having a miserable time and their life chances severely impacted as is sadly often the case due to a lack of funding.

@electriclight

Can I ask for an example of mastery? I'm really interested in what that means in practice.

(When I was at school I basically just worked through a text book in year six for maths with little input (answers were in the back), which I wouldn't say was ideal. I do have a low boredom threshold though and would have been really bored just doin maths when I had already got the idea - in the early years at secondary school, I used to listen to the radio when I had to do maths homework because it was repetitive and easy).

It's too big for me to explain but NCETM website explains it well imo.

@electriclight

Thank you!

Mastery is where the children can put what they've learnt into a greater understanding.

Eg if they are learning column addition in maths, they would have some reasoning questions on the board, often with more than one step, where they have to work out the answer using the taught skill and show logically how they reached their conclusion.

So being able to apply what they have learnt.

My son was moved up a year throughout primary school, He was still bored, He repeated work he'd already done in year 7 at secondary school and was so bored he started suffering with anxiety. Many intelligent students are inflicted by this, it seems to go hand in hand. He is now home schooled and this suits him much better as he can go at his own pace, as well as learn about subjects he's interested in. He has just sat first year of A levels.

Oh @mayflowergardens thank you. I get it - I think in primary school I got given lots of "wordy" extension tasks from older, harder maths books that didn't use any new concepts really, but did use them in much harder ways. "If the train is travelling at x miles per hour" type puzzles that really only rely on you to be able to multiply/divide/subtract etc, but require you to work out which one is appropriate etc. Is that mastery? Or is it just doing harder versions of one concept?

I can see that the former could extent able kids pretty well, whereas the latter could still end up with boredom from the more able kids.

As another poster wrote, mastery is more complicated than that (as is everything nowadays in education but that's another story!)

Yes, as I understand it, mastery means you have understand the concept and can apply it. Eg being taught what a simile is and then writing a descriptive piece with similes in it and even being able to extend them.

This is not going to be boring for the more able kids, mine love going onto the harder tasks as they challenge them. That's not to say I don't challenge the other kids, they may have similar type questions which are just a bit easier.

And yes, as other people have written, in state schools we do our best to cater for everyone but if you want more, either tutor and/or do extra at home or go private!

I spend my day having this argument with bright students at secondary - unsurprisingly my higher achieving Yr 11's due to get a 9 in the next few months, do this. My bright but unwilling to write anything down are not achieving as well long term. In 14 years of teaching I think I have known a handful of students who could get full marks with just writing down the final answer.

I encourage them to do it to form a habit now so it makes it easier, my tutee insists on doing everything in his head - and it slows him down so much.

@electriclight I don't know, he sat primary maths challenge in Y4 and got a gold (24/25) in the bonus round. Questions in PMC would be delving deep down what's taught in primary but he was already at that stage when he was 8. School still talked about mastery in Y6.

It really isn't a special educational need in any way at all. But I do agree that more academically able children need to be challenged.

Homeschool them?

I feel a bit irritated reading this thread, being honest.

I teach (thankfully part time), a very large, mixed year group class and I have a wide range of abilities.
Planning one maths lesson takes well over an hour. I've got to combine two sets of objectives and try to teach the whole class something some kids can do easily, others can't do several steps below.

I try my best, I really do, but I can't always challenge the top end and support the lower end without almost killing myself in the process.

It's very very hard work and if a parent came in to complain their child felt bored at the top, I'd happily provide more extension tasks, but at the expense of less support for the lowest. I can't do it all.

Oh and to add: a lot of our TA hours have been cut this year so I've even less support in the classroom, and I'm unable to provide interventions to support or extend, literally none at all in fact.

@Muddygreenfingers that's a bit unfair really. At no point have I suggested I was going to go in and complain. And I also said all along I understand that teachers are prioritising the kids who are finding it hard to keep up. But actually it's not unreasonable to not want my kid to say they hate school because they're always bored. I was thinking maybe he could read a book.when he's done the extra work, not that she should have to create a second lot of work just for my child. I'm not sure why you're taking it so personally.

I was thinking maybe he could read a book.whenhe's done the extra work

A reasonable request. What is your child saying they are doing once they’ve completed an activity?

Believe it or not, what's in the curriculum is actually really difficult and not age-appropriate in any way for the majority of children. It is also quite knowledge-focussed for the foundation subjects. This, combined with mastery teaching (an emphasis on ensuring that ALL children get it and don't get left behind), means that teachers are essentially forced into a way of teaching that goes really slowly through the content so that all the children are picking it up and mastering it really well. There are ways to extend more able pupils within the same content but frankly, I often feel so exhaused by the constant, unreleting focus on special needs and the ones that aren't getting it that I sometimes don't have a lot left for those at the top.

This. It's quite hard to really extend able kids if they already quite frankly, know the content inside out and you are not allowed to go beyond it - my DC is suffering with this. He's miles ahead in maths & reading (not in other areas mind!!) and is bored and it honestly makes him lazy.

Add to this that the government wants levelling. They do not want the gap between higher & lower attainers to be as big as it is. In reality, as more able learners often progress faster/more easily than others, only way to reduce attainment gaps means holding them back to allow slower learners to not slip further behind.

Few state schools really do an excellent job of meeting the needs of the more able, the reality is these kids learn like sponges & do well regardless, as long as their parents do plenty at home to stimulate them/provide challenge.

Op - can you afford things like music lessons to challenge them? Play lots of board games at home, look for a chess club or language lessons, computer coding clubs are becoming really popular. This is what my parents did for me & kept me mentally stimulated. I'm doing the same with DS. The music lessons in particular really help.

Muddygreenfingers

Op's kids deserve to have their needs met as much as any other child. They deserve an enjoyable, engaging education thar gives them the opportunity to achieve their potential. They are worth the teacher's time and energy as much as any other child.