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Another person killed by one of these dogs

245 replies

Schooldinners1 · 03/06/2023 19:11

When will people stop getting these dogs?

There have been so many stories of it going horribly wrong. I don’t know what people are thinking! Especially with vulnerable people in the property like kids and elderly people.

There are hundreds of dogs out there! Why choose to get these dogs that have a history of being unstable.

Its awful!

ARTICLE

Savage dog mauls elderly woman to death: Cops arrest man and woman

The horror savaging happened while the woman in her 70s was lying on a sun lounger at home in Bedworth, Warwickshire, at 3.50pm on Friday.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12155105/Woman-Pensioner-Mauled-Death-Control-Banned-Breed-Dog-Bedworth-Warwickshire.html

OP posts:
Chunkypineapple · 04/06/2023 11:25

@Schooldinners1 same here! It's so vile. We looked at a house recently on a housing estate and they actually had a play area exclusively for dogs. The park for kids was closed because it was completely trashed.

Fireblanket · 04/06/2023 11:51

A stupid young couple I know have a baby and owned two Bullies: a pup and a dog. In a flat with no garden.
Then the lad bought a bitch.

Day afterward they got her, the bitch attacked the pup, practically ripping its leg off.
Bitch was pts. Two other dogs remain in the house.

With the baby.
In a flat with no garden.
And gormless owners.
Accident waiting to happen.
And, yes. I HAVE reported. Twice.

Shhhquirrel · 04/06/2023 12:59

marapournumber4 · 04/06/2023 02:48

Just out of interest , why did you mention Malinois and Dutch Shepherds ( though you called them herders). They are in no way dangerous dogs in any country that I know of. If you know different please let me know as I own a Dutchie.

Read the post properly @marapournumber4

oakleaffy · 04/06/2023 14:12

WiddlinDiddlin · 04/06/2023 05:09

Malis and Dutch Shepherds/Herders and to a lesser extent, heavy working type GSD's are the latest 'must have' 'hard' breeds to own for a particular demographic who like to train 'protection work'... ie biting people for funsies.

For those who take competition bite sports seriously and keep these dogs appropriately, sourcing them from good breeders etc, thats not an issue... but its becoming increasingly popular with people who have zero handling skills, knowledge, facilities or business doing this, with dogs from VERY dodgy breeders (basically bred to want to bite like maniacs from as young as 5 weeks old) - controlled and 'trained' using shock and prong collars and focusing heavily on the 'grab and bite a person' aspect and not the 'let go when told to, immediately and without question' aspect.

In part this is a result of lockdown, in part its the huge rise in social media flashy trainers (almost all male 'alpha' types!) promoting such training and activities. I think theres a good strong link between this and toxic masculinity 'be teh alpha, control a powerful scary dog that bites' too but thats my own personal theory.

The dogs they're getting (and fucking up, causing accidents with then euthanising or just dumping) are horribly bred lunatic bite-a-holics, they LIVE to bite, they don't just like it, they don't want to do anything but bite and bite people at that (ok they're biting the sleeve or the dummy but the way these morons train... they're biting people, including their owners, as part of training).

Rescues and general trainers are seeing a huge rise in Mali/Working GSD/Dutchie types (often mixes, rarely papered) in pet homes where the husband/boyfriend has bought the dog for this and then the wife/girlfriend has realised that this is not the safe pet puppy they were told and then they're asking for help which often just isn't possible as they do not have the means to meet the dogs needs or the dog is neurologically beyond help.

Again... it isn't the breed itself, it is the people. The common factor here is stupid, dangerous people.

I agree with the foolish owners.
True Police and Army dogs release when told.
A person in lockdown bought a Malinois x Bull breed and was obviously going to get way out of her depth…She was “ In awe” of the puppy.

A biting machine with wide jaws.
What could possibly go wrong?
Thankfully I haven’t seen her around.

A friend used to Collie types happened to get a rescued Staffie. (

She didn’t initially want to take on this breed, but sought advice from a Bull breed behaviourist.

He’s approaching approx 12 now and very well mannered, but he was bred by heroin addicts in a bed sit.

Left for long periods on his own.

Far too easy to breed dogs in far from ideal circumstances.

Supernova23 · 04/06/2023 14:13

Unfortunately these dogs attract a certain type of owner. Usually a young, gormless, probably unemployed male, who wants something hard as a status symbol, lives in a council flat. The male owner is undernourished himself, the dog is backyard bred with genetics that are all over the place, the dog is fed on cheap crap food, isn't socialised, and is lucky if it gets walked around the block daily. Dog weighs 60+kgs of pure muscle, which isn't ideal as it's waif of an owner weighs not far off that, so combined with zero training it's dragging the waif down the road. Bull breeds are usually quite 'game', high in prey drive and prone to animal/dog aggression. All of which results in a recipe for disaster.

Conversely, if you have an experienced dog owner, who buys one from a 'better' breeder (if such a thing exists with this type), who respects and understands large working-type personality dogs, trains it, exercises it daily, gives it a solid stable home with boundaries, then it's likely the dog would be just fine.

Schooldinners1 · 04/06/2023 14:47

Supernova23 · 04/06/2023 14:13

Unfortunately these dogs attract a certain type of owner. Usually a young, gormless, probably unemployed male, who wants something hard as a status symbol, lives in a council flat. The male owner is undernourished himself, the dog is backyard bred with genetics that are all over the place, the dog is fed on cheap crap food, isn't socialised, and is lucky if it gets walked around the block daily. Dog weighs 60+kgs of pure muscle, which isn't ideal as it's waif of an owner weighs not far off that, so combined with zero training it's dragging the waif down the road. Bull breeds are usually quite 'game', high in prey drive and prone to animal/dog aggression. All of which results in a recipe for disaster.

Conversely, if you have an experienced dog owner, who buys one from a 'better' breeder (if such a thing exists with this type), who respects and understands large working-type personality dogs, trains it, exercises it daily, gives it a solid stable home with boundaries, then it's likely the dog would be just fine.

I can’t believe they think it increases their status.

If you look on YouTube there are XL bully YouTubers and you should see their meet-ups 😡

OP posts:
LlynTegid · 04/06/2023 14:52

The law should be changed, preferably to ban certain types of dogs as pets (and cross-breeds), and secondly, if your dog harms someone (or worse) you are charged as if you did it yourself. So if it kills, manslaughter.

Schooldinners1 · 04/06/2023 14:55

LlynTegid · 04/06/2023 14:52

The law should be changed, preferably to ban certain types of dogs as pets (and cross-breeds), and secondly, if your dog harms someone (or worse) you are charged as if you did it yourself. So if it kills, manslaughter.

I think introducing a license to own a dog will be the best thing. And owners have to fit a certain criteria before ownership is possible for example above 18, never been in prison, has some for of employment and maybe character references from respected people in the community.

Or is that too much? 🤨🧐

OP posts:
oakleaffy · 04/06/2023 16:23

@Schooldinners1 Licences won’t work as the feckless won’t bother.

Identichipping is law, but bet most irresponsibly bred and sold dogs don’t have a chip.

It’s always the caring responsible owner who chips, insures and trains their dog- The type who want the intimidating dog aggressive types won’t be buying a licence.

I don’t know what the answer is.

People can ( and do)deny a dog is even theirs.
A local old woman had a large biting Lurcher that was always escaping her garden.

She simply denied it was hers - She’d been to court numerous times over it.
It was eventually taken off her.It was never collared or tagged either.

oakleaffy · 04/06/2023 16:36

Fireblanket · 04/06/2023 11:51

A stupid young couple I know have a baby and owned two Bullies: a pup and a dog. In a flat with no garden.
Then the lad bought a bitch.

Day afterward they got her, the bitch attacked the pup, practically ripping its leg off.
Bitch was pts. Two other dogs remain in the house.

With the baby.
In a flat with no garden.
And gormless owners.
Accident waiting to happen.
And, yes. I HAVE reported. Twice.

Jeez- That’s crazy.
It shows the level of sheer aggression these dogs can have.
We introduced a new young dog to an existing female, but were very careful around food -
But there was only a little face pulling by the spayed bitch - The boy accepted his place as subordinate with no trouble. ( Non bull breeds)

Shhhquirrel · 04/06/2023 17:06

Schooldinners1 · 04/06/2023 14:55

I think introducing a license to own a dog will be the best thing. And owners have to fit a certain criteria before ownership is possible for example above 18, never been in prison, has some for of employment and maybe character references from respected people in the community.

Or is that too much? 🤨🧐

How do you think licensing will make any difference? We had Dog licenses in this country and they were abolished.
Legislation regarding breeding should be introduced, and tougher sentences for those with dangerously out of control dogs.
It should be illegal to own certain breeds in homes that have under 18’s and parents allowing these dogs into their homes which go on to kill their children should be charged with murder.

OutIander · 04/06/2023 18:08

Shhhquirrel · 04/06/2023 17:06

How do you think licensing will make any difference? We had Dog licenses in this country and they were abolished.
Legislation regarding breeding should be introduced, and tougher sentences for those with dangerously out of control dogs.
It should be illegal to own certain breeds in homes that have under 18’s and parents allowing these dogs into their homes which go on to kill their children should be charged with murder.

Just because one government years back abolish something, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t bring back licences.

We need to ban bully breeds, and the extra dangerous ones (Dobermans, akitas, huskies etc).
we need to high price licence all owners. Fees pay for extra wardens, extra cctv, dog poo dna database.
any proven reported bite, dog gets euthanised.
only certified breeders allowed.

I’d rather not be mauled in the first place than have the owners in jail as a punishment. That’s not really going to help me when I’m missing my ears and arms.

stayingaliveisawayoflife · 04/06/2023 18:40

My mum had a rescue staffy. He died last week in the middle of the night we think of a heart condition possibly why he was rejected when young. He was my Mums perfect dog. He took care of her when she had a hip and knee replacement and he fit her life. She is devastated.

However we never left him alone with any baby or young child. He never hurt anyone but it was our job to make sure that never happened. We were aware he had a very difficult and abusive puppyhood but could never risk that coming out. He was soft as anything but he was an animal and we never forgot that.

AMonthOfSundaes · 04/06/2023 18:42

*XL Bullies are Pitbull descendants aka Pitbull types.

I. E. Banned under the DDA.*

That's not how the DDA works. What defines a dog as a pitbull type are the measurements - like how high up the hock is, how the leg length compares to body length etc. Not the parents or ancestors.

The net result of that is, if I cross breed a pit with another breed and get two puppies, with natural variation, I could well have the following mad scenario...

  • one puppy is born with the 'wrong measurements' and is illegal
  • one puppy is born with the 'right' measurements and is legal
Isomissmyoldlife · 04/06/2023 19:18

OutIander · 03/06/2023 22:15

I expect the types who usually own these are idiot tories or kippers.

It's hard to know which statement is more idiotic. Firstly the dog is suspected to have been a banned breed already, read the actual article.

Secondly, as much as I dislike these XL bully types which is what I assume you meant , it's not as easy as that-all they have to do is cross it with another dog and it's legal. It's a law that's almost impossible to police.

Thirdly, anyone who owns a dangerous dog must be a stupid brexit voter? Stupidity doesn't run down party lines, what an idiotic thing to say.

Wildflowersinthemeadow · 04/06/2023 19:27

@stayingaliveisawayoflife if only it was as simple as never leaving a child alone with a dog = tragedy averted.

There have been nineteen deaths since February 2021, and thirteen of those deaths adults. It would be nice to think that if we supervise, no harm can happen, but it can.

stayingaliveisawayoflife · 04/06/2023 19:31

@Wildflowersinthemeadow absolutely. I was just saying that even with a family pet that has never snapped or growled at people you can't ever assume they will just be fine.

WiddlinDiddlin · 04/06/2023 20:21

AMonthOfSundaes · 04/06/2023 18:42

*XL Bullies are Pitbull descendants aka Pitbull types.

I. E. Banned under the DDA.*

That's not how the DDA works. What defines a dog as a pitbull type are the measurements - like how high up the hock is, how the leg length compares to body length etc. Not the parents or ancestors.

The net result of that is, if I cross breed a pit with another breed and get two puppies, with natural variation, I could well have the following mad scenario...

  • one puppy is born with the 'wrong measurements' and is illegal
  • one puppy is born with the 'right' measurements and is legal

It is worse than that though.

Breed a litter combining KC reg, even DNA verified pedigree Labrador to a similarly bred Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Bullmastiff, Boxer... and you could get in that same litter, puppies who grow to fit the measurements significantly enough to be considered 'type' and puppies who do not.

The current illegal breed legislation turns owners into criminals when dogs grow into measurements - if we add more breeds and of course, their 'types' because DNA testing is insufficient, we will increase this problem.

Now some people may not regard that an issue, just euthanise the dog and theres no problem, but from a 'cost to the taxpayer' side of things, it IS a big deal. It is also a problem from an animal welfare POV.

And all that money and effort involved... will not result in reducing deaths and injuries from dangerous dogs. It may result in reducing deaths/injuries from specific shapes of dog... but that should not be the goal!

Wildflowersinthemeadow · 04/06/2023 20:34

And all that money and effort involved... will not result in reducing deaths and injuries from dangerous dogs

Not wishing to be argumentative, but given that out of the nineteen 2021-present deaths, ten involve an American Bully XL, surely that’s a fairly significant reduction in deaths?

Mollyplop999 · 04/06/2023 20:50

I was walking my daughters very small dog today. A couple were coming towards me with a GSD that was straining on it's harness. I picked up my dog and as they passed me, the GSD lunged and bit my arm. They never apologised or asked if I was OK. It broke the skin on my arm. Their response was that it was a rescue dog! So why wasn't it muzzled??

NOTANUM · 04/06/2023 21:07

Shocking @Mollyplop999
I’m sorry that you had that happen to you. Imagine if it had been one of the kids 😩

WiddlinDiddlin · 04/06/2023 22:28

Wildflowersinthemeadow · 04/06/2023 20:34

And all that money and effort involved... will not result in reducing deaths and injuries from dangerous dogs

Not wishing to be argumentative, but given that out of the nineteen 2021-present deaths, ten involve an American Bully XL, surely that’s a fairly significant reduction in deaths?

Short term yes, but long term we'll see the same idiots currently buying XL bullies, pit types etc, move to different breeds. That move is already happening.

Nothing is addressing peoples desire to own intimidating dogs with poor temperaments, shitty training, handling and housing that leads to out of control and aggressive behaviour.

There is zero going into educating people about dogs, controlling breeding, controlling importation (in fact the Kept Animals Bill that would stop people importing dogs who've had their ears cut off to make them look 'hard', all breeds used by people who want intimidating, scary dogs to train to bite people, has been dropped by the current government in the last fortnight!).

Nothing is being put into policing the current legislation we have either!

So the law that says all dogs should be microchipped at 8 weeks by the breeder - not enforced, not policed.

The law that stated all dogs sold by a third party should be traceable to their breeder - not enforced, on a day to day basis, never was.

The law that states dogs should not be sold by a third party (replaced the above) - rarely enforced except in high profile cases of illegally imported puppies).

The law that states puppies should be over 8 weeks old prior to sale - not enforced. I have talked to FOUR people THIS WEEK, who have bought puppies aged 4 to 7 weeks old. All from commercial puppy farms I am sure.

The law that says you can't cause unnecessary suffering to an animal - rarely enforced in terms of dog training. You can shock a dog, use a prong collar on a dog, yank it off its feet by its throat with a thin 'cheesewire' choke line causing it to yelp in pain but despite this being unnecessary (studies prove that aversive methods increase chances of aggression and cause pain) and it causes suffering (ditto), certain 'trainers' get away with this all the time and owners do too.

We increased the sentencing for animal welfare related crimes - but longer sentences are rarely given.

Animal ownership bans - not enforced and very easy loopholes in many cases (you can't own a dog.. however your wife/son/daughter/brother can... oh, they live with you, oh well!).

Policing and enforcing these laws comes down to local authorities who have nothing left in the budget, the police, ditto, and neither party have the relevant training or experience. And to dog warden companies who in many cases, are spread too thin, doing a shite job of it without appropriate training. I am aware of one company that covers multiple LA's, who NEVER sends their wardens on any CPD courses, they have no experience beyond a 2 day 'heres how to catch pole a dog and chuck it in a van' course, and a 'what might be an illegal breed call a DLO to check' seminar.

We (trainers, behaviourists, rescue staff and volunteers) said over 20 years ago that banning pitbulls and their types would NOT reduce deaths, that those who cause such tragedies will continue to do as they please, continue to breed dangerous animals and would seek bigger, stronger, scarier animals to do so.

We also said at the start of the pandemic that stopping access to dog training, to vets, and the massive rise in breeding anything canine, plus the social media 'dog training alpha males' ... would cause some significant problems wrt dangerous dogs in 2 - 4 years time.

Welcome to 'we told you so'.

flyingtherag · 04/06/2023 22:33

@WiddlinDiddlin great post. Thankyou

stbrandonsboat · 04/06/2023 22:38

Thick as mince owners.

Thick as mince government.

This is the result.

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