Children's intelligence level

[unsuresue2]

I'm going to be totally honest here- at the risk of sounding very snobby but can't shake a feeling of real disappointment for my kids.
It's obvious to me that my kids are middle of the road in their class for maths and really struggling with literacy, understandable as both diagnosed with dyslexia- however their general IQ / CAT scores are also mid range (literacy really low against this) and my older child will start GCSE work soon and it's clear he will struggle to keep up.
I have been getting all help I can, fortunate position where I can afford tutors etc
But I find it really sad for them and a constant worry for me, that their educational attainment is an accurate predictor for their success in later life.
I have always been in the higher end IQ, loved school and got really good marks that allowed for uni education and professional qualifications- and I am fully aware of the privileged position that put me in- with good job and high earnings I enjoy today- I just don't see my kids being able to attain anywhere near that educational success, and I really worry for them that life will be a struggle.
They have loads of wonderful qualities- sporty (not premier league/ Olympics) kind and funny, great emotional intelligence etc.
I love them unconditionally, goes without saying, but I just want the very best for them and can't seem to shake this feeling that their intelligence markers are not predicting great futures.
Please help me with some perspective/ similar experiences

I hear your worries - future life would be in theory easier if they ticked all the boxes, including academia. But what leads to all our successes isn’t really academia, it’s about emotional intelligence etc, that lets you thrive in a workplace. So all those skills are massive. I also think senior managers/leaders are two types - utter psychos/narcs or those who are truly brilliant people managers and my current one is not that expert but he knows how to run a large department of several hundred, and how to manage people. Got him a very big salary on the way too

It can though, depending on what you’re unhappy about. If you’re miserable as a result of struggling to pay the bills and feed yourself/your family then money will absolutely alleviate that.

You can be miserable and rich as well as miserable and poor, but I would say that the former is preferable.

School simply doesn't work for lots of kids for various reasons.

I left school at 16 without a single qualification, despite being a straight A* pupil at primary school. Secondary school was horrific due to daily bullying etc and I just withdrew and gave up.

As soon as I left, I picked myself up, did evening classes to get O levels, then A levels, and then accountancy qualifications and I was a qualified chartered accountant by the time I was 24!

Best thing in the OP's case is to accept that high GCSE/A level qualifications aren't going to happen and work towards alternatives, such as aiming for a trade such as plumber or electrician, or a less academic career such as catering, motor mechanic, etc. Still lots of relatively high earning jobs/careers requiring skills and intelligence other than academic subjects.

You need to instil resilience, a work ethic, a desire to take control of their own futures, a belief that hard work pays off, a wish to work in an industry that they’re passionate about, an understanding that academic results are one marker of success but not the only one etc etc etc. That’s how you start to ensure that your fears for them aren’t realised.

My youngest son was apparently one of the most severely dyslexic children my county had ever had nearly 30 years ago.
He was sent to a brilliant weekly boarding school and ended up going to University to gain a BA in Arts & Design, now earns very well.
i believe all children are different with their own set of strengths & weaknesses, so what if they aren’t academically brilliant there will be something their good at and enjoy so nurture and encourage that instead of looking at the negatives.

OP, I had an IQ test when I was 7 (never fully understood why! Something to do with my parents long custody battle and my ability to understand I think). It put me somewhere around the middle (slightly over on one subtest, slightly under on another) and until that point my mum and teachers thought I was smart, and I believed I was too. I'm fairly sure the results influenced the way mum viewed me after that, though she never let on in so many words (but in retrospect I think a child can pick up when a parent believes they have limits) and I ended up with middle of the road GCSEs and pretty rubbish A levels.

As an adult I was sure my test results didn't accurately reflect my intellectual potential. I had this inner belief I was smarter than people believed and my results indicated. I had a lot of trauma in my life, so admittedly this did also impact my A levels.

Anyway, I made the decision for a re-test. I came out with an IQ over 135 on the WAIS-IV, which is very high. I then had the confidence to take the MENSA tests, and they placed me with an IQ of 155 and I joined MENSA (I've now left as it was more about proving something to myself than actually gaining anything from the membership!! And it cost a fortune!!)

I subsequently had the confidence to complete a degree, MSc and PhD.

I know the theory is that IQ can't change - but I believe it can. I also think when you test kids there are so many variables which could make their score seem lower. The main factor to success is hard work and self belief. I firmly believe that.

All that said, having some randomly high score on an IQ test, or getting good grades at school are IMO not that important. One of my children is very sporty. I encourage that and I expect he'll go into the forces, or do something with his sports in the future (maybe coaching, teaching, sport science or something). The other one has a flare for art and music and I expect it may become the route he takes.

Academics are overrated. Encouraging your children to do what they love, and work at it, is most important.

I overcompensated by getting all my degrees as I had a point to prove to myself, and also to my mum. However, i am really not interested in academics. My dream would be to have a little coffee or tea shop by a lake somewhere. My mum could have noticed better my strengths as kid and encouraged me to pursue what I was naturally into. Instead I'm now stuck in a job which, I guess I like, it earns well, but it's not my passion. I don't love it.

It's far better as an adult to be happy doing a job you love, than be a miserable lawyer or financier etc... IMO

I’m the opposite op. My kids are really bright but don’t have the privilege markers that have enabled some of the posters on here to elevate themselves despite their poor academic achievements. Life isn’t fair.
How old are they? Dh was from a very poor family in the worst part of Dublin. Him and all of his siblings are successful through their own grit and hard work. Help only from grants etc that helped them and in dh’s case a scholarship in his final year of college.

I have 3 siblings. One of us got straight A/A*s at GCSE and A Level, went to Oxbridge, got a distinction at Masters, and is now doing a PhD. One got A/Bs at GCSE and A Level and a 2:2 from a Redbrick university. One got Bs-Ds at school and dropped out of several uni courses (including two sports scholarships in the USA). One got straight Cs at GCSE, scraped a BTEC, and dropped out of two different uni courses.

One of us earns £80k, one £75k full-time equivalent, one £50k, and one £24k full-time equivalent. There is no correlation between our educational attainment and our wages.

If it is any consolation, I didn't do the best at school and at university, I only got a 2.1 by the skin of my teeth but I've done well to rise through the grades within the Civil Service with a couple of stints in the NHS.

The educational system in this country is rubbish anyway. I wouldn't worry about it as long as they get the required grades for their chosen course, whether it is an apprenticeship or degree. If they get a degree, there are loads of graduate scheme options available and the degree of choice rarely matters!

Dm taught in a small school where a fair number of the pupils were below average intelligence. She also did tutoring which varied from low ability through to high.

For her subject (maths), she said that everyone seemed to have a ceiling. However hard work and things like 1-2-1 tutoring did not necessarily increase the ceiling, but get them to that place. She had pupils predicted E at the start of year 10 who got a C. So it can be worth encouraging their work, and even getting a tutor to get those passes in English/maths if that is needed.

The hardest she found was either when the parents had unrealistic expectations ("they have to do higher level, as it's ridiculous that can't get higher than a C" when they'd be doing very well to get a C, and more likely to get a D-which would be just a simple fail on the higher level) or where there was a mismatch in the children of the family, because often tactless things were said with no malice: "no point doing something you'll only get a D in" was one, in front of younger sister who wasn't going to be getting Cs in anything.

What she did say was often the ones who weren't achieving brilliantly often had great ambitions which they realised, just not in the academic world. Of those who were struggling through school many of them have found jobs that they find fulfilling and they are actually great at. It's just a case of finding it. That's where you can support them.

I get my tyres changed at a local Kwik Fit. One time my car was done by a young school leaver. He struggled with the paperwork, and he was very nervous. I had ds with me who was about 2yo at the time.
I went back about 18 months later and he took one look at the car, stated "oh yes, you had X, Y, Z done, and how's your little boy?" His confidence had grown hugely and he not only remembered the car, what had been done, but he handled the paperwork with confidence and was totally a changed person.
How much better he would have felt if at 14yo he could have stopped most of schooling and been able to do an apprenticeship in car maintenance or similar. That's where I feel our educations system is wrong.

But going back to him, he moved on after about 5 years-he was promoted to manager at another garage. That's pretty good going for his age. He was planning that when he'd had enough experience there he was going to set up his own place. Good luck to him. I hope he's achieved it.

Emotional intelligence can get you far in life too or at least it gives you the ability to make wiser choices. There are lots of options for people who aren’t academic and if they have a smattering of drive and ambition that can be more valuable than qualifications. Some of the most successful people don’t have qualifications but they do have drive. My son is very clever but has no drive and for me that is a worry as, like you, we know life is hard enough as it is.

Have you asked for an explanation of what their PsychEd report can tell you? You should be able to see a measure of “brightness” compared to achievement at the time of the report. Remember that dyslexic brains aren't suited to the current academic systems as they work differently. They will have skills in other areas which society values but will need time to develop to work out where their strengths lie. As other posters have said, school results do not predict final outcomes, look at Richard Branson, just for starters. We value academia which is a huge mistake because we should find the skill in every child whether it’s woodworking, design or pure mathematics; every single child has a value but, in many cases, our education system prevents us seeing this in my opinion.

I basically failed my A-Levels, getting a D in Biology and D in General Studies. I failed both Maths & Chemistry despite going to a well regarded private school. My two D’s were just sufficient to scrape into an ex Poly to read Economics which it turned out, was my passion. I got a 2.1 and have had a 25 year career in investment banking earning well into 6 figures. I’m very good at sales, I understand people and can connect well with both clients and colleagues. We have some incredibly bright maths superstars on the team who are absolute whizzes on excel, but struggle to explain concepts/ideas to clients, so it’s very much a team effort. They come up with superb trade ideas and I pitch them. It takes all sorts.

Honestly I don't think academic ability or intelligence is the most important thing at all. I always loved school and learning and got top grades right up until university but lacked confidence and didn't have much ambition regarding work so have never earned loads or got into a dream career. On the other hand I know plenty of people who did not do well at school but have loads of confidence and self belief and have achieved loads in their lives. I try and develop confidence and kindness above all else in my own children.

Lots of people can earn great money by finding something they're good at and working hard. Also earning great money doesn't buy happiness anyway. Wish for your children to be truly happy, whatever or whoever they grow up to be.

I did really well in school. It was easy. Ended in up in one of those public sector roles mn likes to bash. Friends who bobbed along in school, even fucked up their a levels, now earn way more than me.

Dc1 is clearly a clever kid, who finds school easy. But he has no friends, only kids he bumps along with in school. I know what I'd rather for him.

Of my bunch, one was an extreme underachiever (no diagnosed problems but an acute inability to listen to instructions) two were middle of the road, and two were very high achievers with a lot of ambition.

They all now earn very similar, very decent, salaries, (except one high achiever who emigrated and now earns squillions but works EXTREMELY hard and long hours for that).

Qualifications mean nothing. A willingness to work and finding your niche is all.

Well look at the muppets in politics! I don't think high IQ is everything.

IMO

1. success appears imperfectly correlated with academic success/general intelligence.

2. leaving formal education is the start of a journey, one which you seem to be trying to equip your children.

3. children's academic success is not stratified and determined early. There are many whose performance rises or falls depending on age/setting.

Good luck.

Top of my school, excelled at uni, went on to do reasonably well in life but I'm not exactly running the country. Personally, I am angry my parents didn't encourage me to be a more well rounded, emotionally intelligent person as I think that would have been far more useful in life and in my job, would have helped me not to have social anxiety and thrive more etc. Widen your frankly very narrow definition of "success" OP, and support and celebrate your children for what they are. They will have noticed your disappointment and it will hurt them terribly. If they are trying their best, that's good enough and they will find a way to live a full life with that. They might not have a 17 bedroom mansion but who really needs that? Or actually they might - as I think often those who excel academically aren't taught well to problem solve - a lot of rote learning is no help in the real world!

I was very 'academic' growing up, good at exams, got into a well-regarded university and so on. It didn't translate to a high-flying career or any other notability in adult life - I have a very average job and life.

Sad that they are middle of the road inteligence! WOW just wow @unsuresue2

There are people struggling with children with SEN or severe learning disabilities or physical disabilities or illness and you are SAD that they are middle of the road.

Grow up and be thankful. Take a long hard look at yourself.

My youngest dd was tagged as 'gifted and talented' in primary, in secondary she was expected to achieve very highly in GCSEs and to go on to her RG university of choice. It all began to unravel in yr11, with extreme anxiety setting in, school refusal etc (with no particular trigger, we (including her) are still nine the wiser).
We managed to get decent GCSEs, A-levels were a nightmare. She dropped out once, took an extra year and still only managed very low grades.
So she just went out into the world, took a minimum wage retail job and started the next phase of her life. And she was fine - now 21 she brings home £1700 a month, whizzes about in her little car enjoying her active social life, loves travel and her holidays and puts a chunk aside for a deposit. It's OK to be OK.
I have 2 solicitor friends whose dc were expected to be high-flyers academically. One of those dc is now a plumber, the other is a junior manager in a supermarket (non-graduate). It's OK to be OK.

While I never struggled in school, I teach a sport and earn €60 per hour. Lots of people in my line of work are school drop outs who are not academic at all but have a wonderful life and are successful.

It's not all about academics. You should be proud of your children for what they can do and not worry that they aren't like you.