Page 5 | To think this manager is being unfair?

quiettimes · 2023-05-30T13:16:12+00:00

I got pulled into an “informal meeting” today with a male manager because apparently my dress is too short and he will be monitoring my attire going forward. What I’m wearing isn’t against the dress code guidance (which is just “smart casual”. This dress covers my knees and is not a fitted style so it isn’t riding up. I have worn it to work many times before and no issues were raised previously. aibu to be annoyed about being spoken to about this? Other people not only wear dresses the same length as me, but shorter things. Some are literally wearing things directly against the dress standards such as jeans, trainers, t shirts and hoodies today. They aren’t being spoken to. I feel like it’s personal and nitpicking to raise this. Particularly as it’s also 20 degrees outside and the heating is ON inside, so everyone at work is profusely sweating working through headache inducing heat.

LlynTegid · 30/05/2023 18:36

As it is a temporary manager, complaining may help make sure it is not a permanent one.

Bemyclementine · 30/05/2023 18:42

A HEADBAND????

L0bstersLass · 30/05/2023 18:50

quiettimes · 30/05/2023 17:41

thanks for the template. Will definitely use. In the meeting I did push back against his suggestion that my dress was inappropriate.

my impression as the day progressed is that nothing formal will immediately come of this as he already hasn’t done something he said he would to “follow this up” I think if the guidance backed up his actions, more would have occurred judging by his attitude

there likely will be more “informal” bullshit though. I’ll play it by ear. ultimately I don’t think this manager or his friends at work like me. I don’t have a problem with anyone but,
I reckon silly shit like this will always occur as it’s an unprofessional environment. He’s been a manager for a month in a temporary capacity so has no idea what he’s doing and has brought bias and favouritism to the forefront.

Seriously, don't play it by ear. Get your written response to the meeting in now before he gets the chance to put anything in writing.
This behaviour of his needs to be challenged.

L1ttledrummergirl · 30/05/2023 18:59

Bookendortwo · 30/05/2023 14:31

I'd email and document the conversation asking for clarification on what is and isn't suitable. Plus documenting the actual length of your outfit. I'd also take a photo of yourself in the outfit for future reference I'd its taken further.

Include the photograph, copy in HR and your line manager, and be sure to ask for a copy of the grievance and bullying and harassment policies.
Speak to you union rep. You are in a union I hope? If not, get yourself in one ASAP.

Document every thing he, or his girlfriend do that is out of line, however small- dates, times, what was said, how it made you feel.

Do not comment on other colleagues appearances, this is about you, not them.

OhWhatFuckeryIsThisNow · 30/05/2023 19:18

If he suggests another informal meeting, I would say “of course, I will be attending at x o clock with my line manager.”

MintyCedric · 30/05/2023 19:36

he replied “as a woman common sense should apply to you naturally for what length is acceptable, there isn’t an exact measurement in inches and I’m not getting a ruler out”

Well, fuck that!

Like you I’m a very much ‘play it by ear’ person but that would have bought on the red mist big style.

I’d send the email @Outdamnspot23 suggested and drop him right in the shit without a moments hesitation.

FictionalCharacter · 30/05/2023 19:43

Does his surname begin with G by any chance?
I agree with PPs who say do not mention other people's clothing at all. You need to keep this about his treatment of you, and nothing else.

billy1966 · 30/05/2023 19:59

My head is really blown that some women have to put up with this in '23.

35 years ago this bullshit would have been challenged by many women.

I would really encourage you to massively blow this up with HR formally.

This is really predatory bullying, intimidation bullshit that would horrify any decent HR and make them pause for thought.

Spelling it out on email gives them zero deniability.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 30/05/2023 20:18

As well as asking for clarity around the dress code, you need to ask about the process for monitoring your attire. What does this involve, how long will the monitoring go on for, how will it be measured and recorded etc? Make him justify his words

Jesusmaryjosephandtheweedon · 30/05/2023 20:19

Being a manager and having dealt with staff issues myself, I cannot understand his approach.

He cannot make an accusation like that without evidence to back it up. He has zero case here.

Personally if there genuinely was an issue I would have circulated the dress code to all and reminded everyone of it and that they should comply. Following on from this if someone continued to disregard the dress code I would have called them in and said I circulated the dress code and I notice you still haven't complied. The dress code specifically states no lycra (etc) and you are continuing to wear it. Please rectify this immediately/from tomorrow. You have to be specific and state exactly the outcome you want from the discussion.

I would then follow all of that up in writing so there is a formal record of it for both sides.

In your shoes I would definitely email this guy with a summary of what was discussed.

Further to our meeting today, it is my understanding that you consider my dress that is below knee length to be in breach of the dress code, can you provide me with where in the dress code it states this, as I consider it completely appropriate and wholly in line with the dress code.?

He won't put it in writing back as he has nothing to back it up and then I wouldn't think twice about it and would wear the dress daily if I could get it washed and dried in time..

He sounds like he is trying to impress his gf but he might very well get himself in trouble under the bullying policy. Particularly if others actually are dressing inappropriately and he hasn't had a similar conversation with them.

Good luck op.

TaylorSwiftFan · 30/05/2023 20:25

MrTiddlesTheCat · 30/05/2023 20:18

As well as asking for clarity around the dress code, you need to ask about the process for monitoring your attire. What does this involve, how long will the monitoring go on for, how will it be measured and recorded etc? Make him justify his words

This

CantGetDecentNickname · 30/05/2023 20:58

MrTiddlesTheCat · 30/05/2023 20:18

As well as asking for clarity around the dress code, you need to ask about the process for monitoring your attire. What does this involve, how long will the monitoring go on for, how will it be measured and recorded etc? Make him justify his words

I’d do this and do as others have suggested and add a picture and copy in HR.

please don’t play it by ear. If you aren’t seen by him to be doing anything, then next week he will find something else to pick on and the week after etc. I’m speaking from experience here! You need to show him you will not be an easy victim by escalating it to HR immediately.

Very important to do this now while he is temporary. Much easier for the company to get rid of him before he becomes permanent.

HR will see from the photo that you are appropriately dressed and will most likely just circulate the dress policy to everyone. When you innocently say you think it might be because he didn’t like your skirt length, he will not be so popular with those who aren’t following the policy.

Gothambutnotahamster · 30/05/2023 21:06

MrsAnon6 · 30/05/2023 18:01

This sounds like straight up bullying to me. I would print off your dress code policy, take a photo of you in the dress and enlist help from HR. His behaviour is bang out of order and you need to nip it in the bud before it gets worse.

Absolutely this!

EekGoesTheBaby · 30/05/2023 22:00

L0bstersLass · 30/05/2023 18:50

Seriously, don't play it by ear. Get your written response to the meeting in now before he gets the chance to put anything in writing.
This behaviour of his needs to be challenged.

Show quote history

Yes, this! You'll have a record of exactly what was said (while it's still fresh in your mind) in case you ever want to escalate it. PPs have suggested some great wording for the 'just seeking clarification' route.

PieonaBarm · 30/05/2023 22:36

quiettimes · 30/05/2023 18:01

I did ask what length is appropriate - he replied “as a woman common sense should apply to you naturally for what length is acceptable, there isn’t an exact measurement in inches and I’m not getting a ruler out” 🙄

he couldn’t clarify what to/not to wear so I’m still none the wiser. I asked some colleagues and they agreed my dress was a normal length. They said my dress isn’t out of the ordinary either

I feel his self-imposed rules are over and above the guidelines and aren’t being applied to everyone consistently. Just him nitpicking. He wearing in hoodie and headband today , hardly the height of smart attire himself

I'd turn up in a floor length maxi dress tomorrow. But then I'm petty AF......

Original poster

quiettimes · 30/05/2023 22:58

No, it’s not somewhere I want to work long term. I hate the job and want to leave. Good work isn’t recognised or rewarded. It’s just petty things like this every day. Only on Friday was this manager saying to someone “do your fucking job, you’re shit”. That is clearly against guidelines but nothing will be done.

OP posts:

FrangipaniBlue · 30/05/2023 23:25

I once had someone who was not my line manager try to say that what wore for work and my hair colour were unprofessional.

(I wore suits, she just didn't like that my tattoos were visible, but this was perfectly acceptable and not against dress code!)

i laughed at her, so she went to my director.

He too laughed at her, so went to HR.

HR laughed at her, so she then tried to get the company dress code changed!!

People are idiots.

Callyem · 30/05/2023 23:34

Bookendortwo · 30/05/2023 14:31

I'd email and document the conversation asking for clarification on what is and isn't suitable. Plus documenting the actual length of your outfit. I'd also take a photo of yourself in the outfit for future reference I'd its taken further.

Do this - make him put it in writing. Document the conversation, email it to him with a note saying 'Here is a run down of our discussion today regarding my attire. Would you like to add anything?'

MindPalace · 30/05/2023 23:40

Appalling, OP, definitely go to HR.

But, more importantly, we really need to know more about the headband.

Sorry you’re going through this btw - in 2023???)

Original poster

quiettimes · 30/05/2023 23:42

Okay so say I email him and he confirms his stance or replies “don’t wear anything of X length”. Then what? Do I just send his response to HR, do I just comply?

OP posts:

GwinCoch · 30/05/2023 23:46

quiettimes · 30/05/2023 23:42

Okay so say I email him and he confirms his stance or replies “don’t wear anything of X length”. Then what? Do I just send his response to HR, do I just comply?

Wait and see what he says. There is so much second guessing going in this thread about what he is thinking or other people in the office. You can only deal with the facts at hand.

Stompythedinosaur · 30/05/2023 23:53

quiettimes · 30/05/2023 23:42

Okay so say I email him and he confirms his stance or replies “don’t wear anything of X length”. Then what? Do I just send his response to HR, do I just comply?

You email with your actual line manager copied in for clarification as to what he found to be inappropriate about your outfit - specify that you believe it to have been online with the dress code and that it was lower than knee-length. If he doesn't give a clear and reasonable answer, then you ask to meet with your line manager to let them know you have been made uncomfortable by a male manager making groundless comments about your clothing, despite this being inline with the dress code, and that he has told you he with be "monitoring your clothing".

If no support from your line manager, you contact a union rep or someone from HR.

I bet he'll back down long before it gets that far.

Summerfun2023 · 31/05/2023 01:09

quiettimes · 30/05/2023 23:42

Okay so say I email him and he confirms his stance or replies “don’t wear anything of X length”. Then what? Do I just send his response to HR, do I just comply?

You need evidence and a paper trail helps. Send the email and his response will be used as evidence. You have to make sure you save a copy if it's work email.

cadink · 31/05/2023 07:39

@Stompythedinosaur reply is brilliant. Get him to be really specific and highlight to your own manager and ensure you follow it up with HR how uncomfortable you feel with a male who is not your own manager policing women's bodies. Get him to back it on email. It will make him squirm and get him into trouble. Reeks of misogyny and double standards.

cadink · 31/05/2023 07:41

Also please take picture and include it showing the actual length of the dress, and how uncomfortable you now feel knowing that he is objectifying you and how he has made it clear he is looking at your body by expressing his level of discomfort. Please cc HR this has so many red flags