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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this manager is being unfair?

184 replies

quiettimes · 30/05/2023 14:16

I got pulled into an “informal meeting” today with a male manager because apparently my dress is too short and he will be monitoring my attire going forward. What I’m wearing isn’t against the dress code guidance (which is just “smart casual”. This dress covers my knees and is not a fitted style so it isn’t riding up. I have worn it to work many times before and no issues were raised previously.

aibu to be annoyed about being spoken to about this? Other people not only wear dresses the same length as me, but shorter things. Some are literally wearing things directly against the dress standards such as jeans, trainers, t shirts and hoodies today. They aren’t being spoken to. I feel like it’s personal and nitpicking to raise this. Particularly as it’s also 20 degrees outside and the heating is ON inside, so everyone at work is profusely sweating working through headache inducing heat.

OP posts:
RedHelenB · 30/05/2023 17:30

quiettimes · 30/05/2023 14:30

He said the only thing inappropriate was the length

im convinced it’s personal because he’s dating someone in the office who doesn’t like me. She goes to work in crop tops flashing stomach and back which is surely less professional than my calves?

Did you point that out to him?

redheadcurl · 30/05/2023 17:32

Take this to his senior. Sounds like his GF is jealous of you.

WhatTheHeckyPeck · 30/05/2023 17:35

SchoolShenanigans · 30/05/2023 16:45

Copying in the tosser:

"Hi HR, can I please check what the policy says regarding length of dresses? I was wearing a dress that comes below my knees today and Mr Smith called me into an informal meeting to say he'll be monitoring my attire as I was wearing a dress that sits just below my knees. This made me feel a little uncomfortable as, as far as I'm aware, this is perfectly fine in a smart/casual workplace. Please can you clarify?"

I would also add a photo of you in the dress, just so that they can see for themselves that numbnuts manager is being a tosser.

SgtBilko · 30/05/2023 17:36

TeaParty4Me · 30/05/2023 15:03

I think it’s fine to say an item of clothing isn’t suitable and have rules about what is and isn’t acceptable.

But that should be the same for everyone and not just one person.

If you feel you are being singled out then stop wearing the dress and wear something similar to your colleagues and see if you get pulled up on it again.

Is there anyone higher than him you can speak to?

It isn't fine to say a dress below the knee isn't suitable if the dress code is smart casual. If you were expected to wear trousers because of the nature of the work that would be one thing but the OP doesn't say this. I would also have an issue with a male member of staff 'monitoring' my outfits. It speaks of intimidation and even borders on something else. I was once sent home to change because the boss didn't like anyone to wear a certain colour in the office. My dress had spots of that colour. This was over 40 years ago. It felt awful then and it is awful now.

MooMooSharoo · 30/05/2023 17:37

I would email him, copying in either HR or a more senior manager saying:

"Further to our meeting today, I wanted to follow up as I was a little blindsided at the time. I have also now had time to review our employee handbook and cannot see that my knee length, non-fitted dress, goes against the company dress code. I don't therefore believe that it is "inappropriate attire", nor do I appreciate the suggestion that my workwear will be subject to ongoing scrutiny.

There are plenty of others that do flout the rules, wearing crop tops, jeans and trainers, so I am not sure why my outfit, which doesn't go against any of the specific exclusions, has been called in to question."

SamW98 · 30/05/2023 17:38

Who on earth are the 3% who think the OP is being unreasonable?

Original poster
quiettimes · 30/05/2023 17:41

thanks for the template. Will definitely use. In the meeting I did push back against his suggestion that my dress was inappropriate.

my impression as the day progressed is that nothing formal will immediately come of this as he already hasn’t done something he said he would to “follow this up” I think if the guidance backed up his actions, more would have occurred judging by his attitude

there likely will be more “informal” bullshit though. I’ll play it by ear. ultimately I don’t think this manager or his friends at work like me. I don’t have a problem with anyone but,
I reckon silly shit like this will always occur as it’s an unprofessional environment. He’s been a manager for a month in a temporary capacity so has no idea what he’s doing and has brought bias and favouritism to the forefront.

OP posts:
Antsinmypantsneedtodance · 30/05/2023 17:48

Bookendortwo · 30/05/2023 14:31

I'd email and document the conversation asking for clarification on what is and isn't suitable. Plus documenting the actual length of your outfit. I'd also take a photo of yourself in the outfit for future reference I'd its taken further.

This x 1000.

I'd summerise what was said and the length of your dress.

For example " you highlighted my atire today was against the dress code and that you would be watching to see that my clothing met the requirements in future. I am wearing a smart black dress that is 1 inch below my knee. I was unaware that this was against the dress code. It would be helpful to me if you could confirm what I should be wearing"

I'd also end it with something like "'if anything i have said here is inaccurate please let me know."

Await the response and then please please take it further. Men like this should be strung up!

Original poster
quiettimes · 30/05/2023 18:01

I did ask what length is appropriate - he replied “as a woman common sense should apply to you naturally for what length is acceptable, there isn’t an exact measurement in inches and I’m not getting a ruler out” 🙄

he couldn’t clarify what to/not to wear so I’m still none the wiser. I asked some colleagues and they agreed my dress was a normal length. They said my dress isn’t out of the ordinary either

I feel his self-imposed rules are over and above the guidelines and aren’t being applied to everyone consistently. Just him nitpicking. He wearing in hoodie and headband today , hardly the height of smart attire himself

OP posts:
MrsAnon6 · 30/05/2023 18:01

This sounds like straight up bullying to me. I would print off your dress code policy, take a photo of you in the dress and enlist help from HR. His behaviour is bang out of order and you need to nip it in the bud before it gets worse.

Nanny0gg · 30/05/2023 18:01

quiettimes · 30/05/2023 15:23

The only things ruled out are:

denim, Lycra, shorts, cropped tops, inappropriate logos, trainers and baseball caps. There is nothing specifying the length of clothing. I am confident his girlfriend is w against guidance considering she wears cropped fitted t shirts to work that have her navel and torso visible. It’s definitely not a dress code applied equally

What's company policy on personal relationships in the workplace?

diddl · 30/05/2023 18:04

I'd be more concerned about the "monitoring" aspect of it.

I would also ask for clarification on what the dress code is now/does it apply across the board as you have seen jeans/trainers/crop tops.

Linkstolondon · 30/05/2023 18:04

I worked in a professional legal environment where many of the women wore skirts that were way too short. It looks unprofessional. However if he’s no problem with his girlfriend turning up half dressed then he can hardly start having a go at you.

SquishyGloopyBum · 30/05/2023 18:05

Please report this to HR op.

And wear a skirt that's slightly shorter tomorrow!

SoItGoesAgain · 30/05/2023 18:06

rebeccachoc · 30/05/2023 15:29

Keep a secret record of what others are wearing against the rules. CYA in any way you can, they have obviously singled you out for some reason.

Please don't do this. It's creepy to log other people's clothes in this way.

Outdamnspot23 · 30/05/2023 18:11

Emailing is definitely the way forward. I have headed off so many kinds of bullshit in the workplace, with landlords, and others by either insisting on communicating in writing (not really an option in an office) or trying to get things down in writing where possible.

You've had lots of good ideas already but send something ASAP - Dear Manager, I wanted to make sure I was clear after our conversation earlier when you asked me for an informal meeting. You said you wanted to speak to me because "my dress was too short" and that you "will be monitoring my attire going forward".

I'm obviously keen to make sure I'm not in breach of the dress code so it would be really helpful if you could send me more details on which part of it I was breaching today, and how you will be monitoring my clothing choices in future. I've copied in HR and my manager in case they are able to help with this. I've attached a photo of today's outfit for reference. Perhaps it might be helpful to remind all staff of the dress code, as I'd hate to be the only lucky one receiving your personal scrutiny of my body on a daily basis.

Ok maybe not the last bit!

ColdHandsHotHead · 30/05/2023 18:11

Go to HR. If he has a genuine issue with the way you dress, he should be asking them to speak to you anyway.

Viviennemary · 30/05/2023 18:18

Consider taking out a grievance against him for bullying if you are being picked on like this. Monitoring your attire?? Sexual harrassmemt too might be another thing that he could be accused of. Not on.

TallerThanAverage · 30/05/2023 18:20

Bookendortwo · 30/05/2023 14:31

I'd email and document the conversation asking for clarification on what is and isn't suitable. Plus documenting the actual length of your outfit. I'd also take a photo of yourself in the outfit for future reference I'd its taken further.

I’d do this too

TallerThanAverage · 30/05/2023 18:22

TallerThanAverage · 30/05/2023 18:20

I’d do this too

Show quote history

And request that the dress code is sent to all staff as a reminder

Heartsnrainbows · 30/05/2023 18:26

This. If he thinks you'll not say anything he'll keep pushing. Drop him in the shit and copy HR in. Especially if he can't actually clarify in what way this is against dress code. I eould also point out that this other woman is currently against dress code but nothing has been said to her.

Waterfallgirl · 30/05/2023 18:31

quiettimes · 30/05/2023 18:01

I did ask what length is appropriate - he replied “as a woman common sense should apply to you naturally for what length is acceptable, there isn’t an exact measurement in inches and I’m not getting a ruler out” 🙄

he couldn’t clarify what to/not to wear so I’m still none the wiser. I asked some colleagues and they agreed my dress was a normal length. They said my dress isn’t out of the ordinary either

I feel his self-imposed rules are over and above the guidelines and aren’t being applied to everyone consistently. Just him nitpicking. He wearing in hoodie and headband today , hardly the height of smart attire himself

A headband? Is he from 1970!😊

HeiXiong · 30/05/2023 18:31

You need to go to HR.

I’d personally be raising a concern re: sexual harassment as it’s entirely inappropriate for a male manager to be monitoring your skirt length

Pipsquiggle · 30/05/2023 18:31

He sounds like a dickhead who is totally out of his depth.

He is probably trying to show he is Billy Big Balls because he has an interim temporary promotion. If this is how he uses his authority then you need to show you aren't a pushover.

If the culture is unprofessional, It's probably even more important to document the conversation and inform HR. Fine if he wants a stricter view on the dress code but he should be having 'informal chats' with a lot more people not just you.

Long term, is this a company you want to stay at? Sounds like a shitty culture

cakewench · 30/05/2023 18:33

Definitely email. CC your line manager and HR in.

"Per the feedback you gave me today, I would just like to clarify which part of our dress code I'm in violation of. I've had a look myself and I can't seem to find the bit where it says that a dress just below the knee is too short? Thanks in advance."

I wouldn't mention all the other people wearing jeans etc as it will sound a bit juvenile ("but look at what SHE is wearing omg") It's also unnecessary because what you want to focus on is this weirdo singling you out right now. Of course if you want to throw everyone else under the bus later on, you can, but I'd just keep it simple for now.