Contacting school about male teacher

[Slidingdowntherainbow]

My child goes to a preschool attached to a primary school. The Head is always on the gate each morning welcoming children (and parents) in the gates, we see her every morning.

The other day, I went to collect my child earlier than usual and walked past the playing field as usual, it's on the way to the preschool.

It was a hot day and the Head, along with another female colleague, was sitting on a grass bank watching the children and I know they saw this as they laughed.

A male teacher was walking along the playing field with each hand squeezing two girls shoulders. So he was between them, with a hand on each of their outside shoulders, seemingly squeezing. The girls were giggling and the the Head laughed. Not that I think it matters as he shouldn't be touching them at all, but it wasn't a quick squeeze, he was more resting his hands there for a good 30 seconds I'd say.

Anyway, it may be nothing, but it made me feel very uncomfortable. 1) it's inappropriate to touch a pupil for no good reason 2) he gives me the ick anyway, he's a big presence and I sometimes see him when dropping my child off and I just don't like his demeanor, not sure why.

Do I report this? My child won't be going to this school so I'm not worried about that. More that the Head actually saw this with her own eyes and laughed, so I suspect will be defensive. I then have to walk past her daily, potentially for the next two years. Unfortunately I can't report anonymously as I was the only person walking past at this time.

I'm not suggesting anything more than this has happened, but isn't this a slippery slope? Should a teacher (especially male), be touching pupils necks?

Would appreciate opinions please!

I am going to be starting work in a nursery shortly working with children 0-4 years, I have an enhanced DBS and have children myself. I at some point will be expected to make contact with various children at some point during the day, whether that includes nappy changes, reassurance after parent drop-off, a back rub/hug during falls etc. I couldn’t imagine just leaving a child to cry, not comfort them when they’re sad but reading this thread is making me think that a hands-on approach isn’t in the best interests of myself.

Agreed

If you are any good with the children you will get some of them hanging off you or trying to.

I don't want them to be touched unless necessary. I assumed everyone felt that way but I'm clearly wrong.

I wonder if it's a long time since you worked in a school and had SG training. 20 years ago I signed up with a supply agency and we were told not to touch children under any circumstances. We discussed this and all agreed that it would be hard not to touch a child in certain contexts eg id they had just lost a beloved grandparent.

I then went back into class teaching and I'm pleased to say that SG training these days no longer says that. I really do think you're overreacting.

However I do also think you won't believe anyone, in which case you must report it to the school if you really are worried for those children and not just because you don't like the man's demeanor

Errr yes and that’s why I said she didn’t know the context - eg they might have SEND and need physical guiding etc.

The op quoted he was walking with them in the field towards the headmistress and another teacher. He might have found them wondering off and returned them back or they may have been arguing. They fact that they looked comfortable and were laughing speaks volumes. Unless you are suggesting that the school is part of some unusual safeguarding cult that they are all in on.

I think we are very attuned to body language (and not just humans). A fleeting glance and you can tell a couple are feeling frosty towards one another, or one fancies the other and it’s not reciprocated, or someone is bored and feigning interest. Often when we are directly engaging with someone, we can miss the subtleties- which is why a pickpocket is able to distract us and strip us of our possessions. Sometimes a casual observer can see what is going on much more clearly, which may explain why the Head seemed fine with it.

The OP has a bad feeling about this teacher before. Sometimes gut instinct protects us better than reasoning.

It is better to say something and be wrong, than say nothing and have been right.

You obviously would not be told that in those words, but it would hopefully be explained to you clearly and kindly why it was not a safeguarding issue. You could still be thanked for your concerns and spoken to politely and respectfully without a DSL or Head colluding with a mistaken belief that something is a risk to children when it clearly isn't. It's about balance.

I totally agree! Did you read my post? I wasn’t dismissing her concerns.
I was saying that it could of course be something totally appropriate.

If you read my whole post, you’ll see I mentioned asking for the school’s safeguarding policy and to question what happened if necessary after reading that.

Oh sorry. Yes. I see now - I hadn’t opened the nested conversation. Apologies.

This gave me the best laugh I've had today.

Perhaps one point about abusers - this is a general point as we know very little about what went on this particular situation - is that they don't just groom those who are targets of abuse. They use charm on their colleagues and superiors.

'On nice Mr X. I'm sure they wouldn't do anything.'

Laughing doesn't mean much. We giggle nervously in all sorts of situations. Kids at school aren't exactly free to tell their teachers to eff off.

And while it's terribly helpful of Mr X to keep an eye on those two girls with SEND, he could be steering them by holding their elbow/lower arm - rather than draping an arm round their necks.

The OP has a bad feeling about this teacher before. Sometimes gut instinct protects us better than reasoning.

Bollocks.
She's a passer by ffs. She has no context. Nothing.
There is some dangerous nonsense being peddled on this thread.

Yes

Teacher here. I wouldn't like to see this and behaviour like that (especially from a male towards two girls) would be regarded as unusual in every school I have ever taught in. Good male teachers aware of boundaries do not do this OP.

Reducto ad absurdum

very transparent

Thank you.

If he was just just harmless and unthinking of the teacher and OP reported it, it’s not like it would devastate the man’s career would it?

Lot’s of people get gently pulled up on things at work that make them positively change their behaviour. Sometimes they are totally unaware that what they do causes others discomfort or could be construed in a certain way.

I am finding it concerning, in this thread, how changes to rules around adults touching children at school are being interpreted to include even this behaviour here in the OP. It sounds like totally unnecessary touching to me.

You ever heard of Jimmy Savile?

To clarify I mean with the 'plain sight' nonsense?

It was their shoulders he had one hand on each of their shoulders not neck????

You never place your hand on a child's shoulder to check if they need help or they are okay. If a child can't hear you because they are half deaf how do you get their attention?

I understand that but realise that I will always be in a position where my behaviour could be seen as caring or inappropriate.

She's a passer by ffs. She has no context. Nothing.

There is some dangerous nonsense being peddled on this thread

Agreed.

I think the introduction of low level concerns policies was a good move in terms of safeguarding, and also think it's a little concerning that some people think it's reasonable for a random person (OP) to report an adult they don't know, to a school they have nothing to do with, on the grounds that they've seen him interacting with pupils (in front of the head) that OP doesn't like and the fact:
• "He gives me the ick anyway"
• ,"he's a big presence and I sometimes see him when dropping my child off"
• "I just don't like his demeanor, not sure why."

• "I don't like the attitude he gives off when he's hanging outside the classrooms in the morning"
• "His seemingly arrogant attitude."

But crucially:
" My child doesn't go to the school, so I don't know anything about him."

Oh and the OP has already decided the head will be 'defensive' as well.

This isn't a situation where colleagues and/or other adults are raising safeguarding concerns or have reasons to raise low level concerns.

It's a stranger who has taken a dislike to a member of staff and seems to spend a lot of time watching him.

Yes.

Its important to be mindful and to talk to line managers for support if we struggle about knowing where to draw the line.