Mum friend with possible munchausens by proxy

[Schooldinners1]

What would you do?

I can't go into all the details RN but it's been going on for years.

Constant doctorsce trips in different cities, requesting different hospital when one hospital won't believe here, unexplanable illnesses, lack of diagnosis, mystified specialists, sitting in GP surgery waiting room for hours, hospital waiting room A+E, lots of messages about it all sending people photos.

Teachers suspicious and saying “don't think it's constapation”, doctors refusing to write up letters she's requesting.

Blaming allergies that are unproven and reactions for bad behaviour and constapation for when he's naughty.

Says he can't join in sports or plays because of bib or costume and his “allergies”.

There is always a drama and she seems to get pleasure from telling people about it all. Longer it goes on it looks more and more like her own “accounts” of these things happening.

The doctors stopped listening at a point she then became addicted to the homeopath. Who kept giving “pills” she then kept paying for calls even when on holiday to shamanic therapist cause his behaviour was so bad.

I don't even know when she will stop.

Too tired to read the full thread so apologies if I'm repeating something already said.

Munchausen by proxy is no longer a valid diagnosis. it's just considered abuse.

Report to relevant authorities if you genuinely think she's harming her child.

Yeah, my contact sports were very contraindicated. So was the falling out of trees, off bikes and everything else I did. But I wanted to feel alive and, to me, pain that had a direct, obvious cause became how I felt alive, compared to the random pain from whatever decided to go wrong at any given moment whilst not actually doing anything that made me feel normal or happy.

I still prefer the pain and exhaustion from exercise and whatever I've managed to damage this time to the pain and exhaustion of going to bed. And doing weights (machines, not free, I'm not insane) and swimming still help keep me vaguely functioning instead of like a doll that's had her limbs and head pulled off too many time - as long as I don't manage to dislocate something in the pool or getting dressed afterwards.

I've been going to hospital appointments for nearly 50 years - only nearly, because I had to learn to sit up before I could have my first dislocation upon being picked up and whilst I was there for my first knee dislocation a couple of years later, my mother decided she might as well mention the chronic constipation - and I feel that I've got a good relationship with the team and A&E for the assorted injuries . Other than the 'oh, looking at the scan, you've done that one good and proper - steroid and hydro referral?' appointments, there are also the 'Ah, good, you're walking today - how's it going?' ones, the 'You'll be pleased to know it's not the biologics stopping working, that's the EDS causing it this time' and the 'Yeah, it's a thing for some of our patients. I'll refer you over to xxxxx because he's got several of mine at the moment.' And there are times when I'm unable to walk or need a stick or crutches (and then I screw up my shoulders, hands, elbows and wrists trying to use those).

My very not-advisable DD is also diagnosed with POTS and EDS. And has multiple allergies and intolerances - her completely different consultant 300 miles away also says they're all linked. The other 'didn't we say you should really think long and hard about whether you want children? You can change your mind, you know, you're only 18 weeks' DD has PsA and multiple allergies, but no sign of EDS. Both are also ND.

@Greenleafgirl Thing is, I actually totally agree with you about some of the shitheads in the NHS, and I have no difficulty believing they would fabricate evidence when they are convinced of a certain perspective. I genuinely am sorry for what you went through, and I really do believe that false accusations of MbP/FII occur. I am far from thinking that everyone accused is actually guilty of it, believe me. It took me years and years to get the right diagnoses, and I'm sure it was only their class and their cooperation (which ironically, was massively traumatising for me) with professionals which meant my parents were never accused.

I am only commenting with specific reference to the academics (and a few lay experts I'm aware of) who work in this field. I acknowledge your disagreement, but I wanted to clarify because I don't wish to give the impression that I think professionals in general are infallible. Far from it, believe me. (Even with these experts I wouldn't say infallible - no scientist is. But I also don't think they're crudely trying to enrich themselves.)

This.

She may be mentally ill, her child may legitimately have behavioural/developmental/learning problems that she doesn’t know how to address, however her pattern of her behaviour is simply abuse.

@NeverDropYourMooncup Why are you trying to illness-compete with me?

Also it's pretty insensitive to say your kids were contraindicated but you still had them, when I've literally said on this thread that I can't have children. I mean. Okay, you achieved more with EDS than I did. Congrats.

I'm saddened to think so many posters automatically assume Op is right. I was accused of fii by primary school who disputed Ds1's AS diagnosis 10+ years ago.
Over the many years on Mn, many SN posters were accused of fii. It's common with ASD. and also allergies. She may well have fii, or be a drama Queen. It is also entirely possible that her child's medical issues are dismissed. Have you ever read on mn the many many posters, mum's, adults, who go from hospital to hospital being endlessly dismissed, for years, until someone takes them seriously. It's not unheard of. That's fii? Fxxk off!

As a mum of a child who had several allergies I can attest to the fact that doctors do not generally believe mums. I remember a skin specialist telling me that eczema could not be triggered my milk and yet that’s what happened.

There are specific red flags of MbP/FII/FDIA in what OP has shared. It's always better not to go into detail if possible when discussing these behaviours online because anything specific that one shares only educates people on how to fake or how to hide their tracks better. That's why my replies on the subject are always a bit vague and don't give examples of what I'm referring to. I don't want to "help" anyone with that disorder who might (not necessarily today, could be sometime in the future) see the thread.

It's really difficult to discuss when certain posters are reading what is not there and constantly trying to trump their own personal bad luck and accusing others of things they have not done.
Some replies on here are unhinged and unhelpful.

I think it's valid to see both sides of the coin, even if we don't agree with one another.

But accusing posters of things that have not been written is seeming more and more well.... unhinged.

Either report or stop gossiping about her. You aren't her friend and tbh you need to think about why you're so invested in this and why you're labelling a DC 'naughty' and are then attributing manipulative behaviour to the DC and their DM.
At 7, getting an allergy diagnosis in most of the UK is practically impossible unless it's an allergy that causes anaphylactic shock - and even then - you're not always guaranteed an appointment within a workable timeframe.
You're ill-informed and over-invested. If you are actually concerned about the DC (who you have repeatedly labelled 'naughty') call SS or report to the safeguarding lead in the school. But your obvious lack of knowledge about the current state of the NHS, how allergies can affect DC and the difficulty in getting a diagnosis for a DC - points to you being keener on gossip than you are on facts.

Right. I am not read the fucking thread.

Munchausens by proxy is very very rare.

What is not rare are parents whose concerns are disregarded and straight out ridiculed by medical professionals.

I have a child who has diagnosed SEN (ASD, ADHD, Tourettes, anaphylactic allergies). I have seen the medicos roll their eyes when they think it is behind my back because of something we go to them about- including A&E.

latest diagnosis for my child is cold urticaria. He is literally allergic to the fucking cold. Cold wind. Cold water. He cannot eat ice cream. he cannpt drink a drink with ice cubes in it. he cannot sit on a plane under the air conditioning unit. We have presented at A&E when he is in shock. i have had rolled eyes and been told the issue is my health anxiety. Hardly anyone has head of an allergy to the fucking cold- including health professionals.

What happened last time? he went into anaphylaxis. THEN people took me seriously.

But only then. Try and tell a HCP that he has an anaphylactic allergy to cold even after that... rolled eyes and a suggestion that his mother is out of her fucking mind.

@TiredOfCleaning Maybe you should have read the thread because we have discussed pretty much all of this. Nobody is saying that false accusations don't occur.

So does MbP/FII/FDIA. There are red flags of this in what OP has shared.

It's simply incorrect to assume that anyone who acknowledges that doesn't understand complex illness. Speaking as someone who actually has cold urticaria myself along with a host of other things (some very rare), genuine serious illness has actually made me more frustrated with the "illness industry" and with fakers and factitious disorder in general. Not to say it isn't a mental illness: I'm very aware that it is. But in practice there is also a grey area in terms of where the "gains" come in, and where FII crosses over with malingering. We just don't know the situation with OP's acquaintance, and she may be struggling with other issues and no factitious component at all. But OP isn't wrong to have these concerns.

It's really troubling that several people are trying to shout down even the suggestion of reporting concerns about factitious disorder.

It took 10 years for my child to be diagnosed with a rare and very serious paediatric illness. In that time I was dismissed by the medical profession and accused of all sorts in other settings. My child lost their whole childhood to a treatable illness. None of the examples you mention sound like red flags to the numerous posters who have actually dealt with childhood illness. Not being taken seriously as a mother is devastating. Watching your child suffer and not getting help is devastating. Our world shrunk to illness and hospitals - hell yes we Dr shopped! You do anything to help your child.

If you are worried about the child offer to sit for him to give the mother (your friend?) a break. You never really get an idea of how ill a child is until you see them at home.

If you are going to make this allegation make sure you know your facts because unfounded allegations add an unbelievable amount of stress to what is already truly hideous situation.

I'm not. I'm pointing out that disease presentations vary. You pointed out that rugby probably isn't a good idea for somebody with EDS and therefore, they can't have EDS, I pointed out that there are reasons in my own experience that where people can have EDS and still want to do those things, even with some rather predictable outcomes. Others have more severe forms.

Regarding children, it's Mumsnet. Clue's in the name for the vast majority of posters. I've had children who also have diagnoses with different presentations that don't correlate with your experience of them. I'm allowed to acknowledge their existence and that, on the basis of my diagnoses, I was advised similarly. However, if it comforts you a little, they were both products of domestic abuse and one is unable to have children herself. So thanks for the congratulations upon being beaten and raped on multiple occasions, maybe that will make your winning on the internet all the sweeter. But I'll still disagree with you that your assertion that a child who has periods of doing stuff they might enjoy automatically means the mother is lying about the inability to do everyday things at other times.

Well said.

That same poster said "good for you" when I described my kids and other kids suffering. Then accused me of making her feel awful for not being able to have kids.

I stopped responding to her and she immediately moved on to you with the same things she was saying to you.

As I said upthread. Unhinged.

Fine so maybe I should hvae read the threa.d I am glad that issues hae been dealt with to your saitisfaction on the thread. What I am saying and have said is that mothers concerns are more often disregarded than munchausens by proxy is actually properly the case. I am an educated woman. I am a solicitor who specialises in child protection. I have seen in ny own example and in my work that it is usual that parents (usually mothers) are disprespected and ignored and ridiculed and laughed at. By HCPs who ought to know better.

If I sound angry then this is because I am.

@NeverDropYourMooncup I'm literally referring to standard medical advice for EDS. If you think anyone with EDS who is so severely affected they need to use a wheelchair would also be playing contact sports, I have a bridge to sell you.

Like many disabled women, I have also been sexually assaulted. Does that adequately fill up the square on my bingo card, since that is apparently what you've decided we are playing?

I mean, for heaven's sake. This conversation did not have to go like this, but your hostility is just off the charts. All because I asked you not to keep linking EDS to factitious illness. If you seriously think that improves the rep of the condition with HCPs, then sure, go on, keep doing it! I can't stop you. But I can assure you, you are wrong.

@TiredOfCleaning How do you know how frequent MbP/FII/FDIA is when it's something that many of the experts acknowledge is a moving target and very difficult to pin down with any accuracy?

OP I have read through the whole thread and know there’s a massive difference of opinions but I just wanted to say that your opening post could be a description of my childhood. My mother was exactly like that woman you are describing, there was absolutely nothing wrong with me at all and it’s left me with deep emotional scars. I wish someone had reported my mother back then because maybe I wouldn’t have had to go through so much.

@ADHDDDDDDDBOOM I said "good for you" because you were gloating about being able to have children and how that gave you a better, deeper, superior insight into allergy, when I had just specifically explained that I have extensive experience with it but cannot have kids due to being severely unwell and chronically medically unstable.

If you really think gloating at childless women is appropriate, you have some thinking to do.

tell me how often it is that parents reporting of their child's illnesses are disregarded.

Go on. Then compare with it with actual diagnosed munchausens by proxy.

I am waiting.

I'm a professional who also deals with families on a daily basis who are not believed or listened to by other HCP's.

I always make sure I'm the health care professional who does listen.

I also work with families on child protection plans/Child in need plans and have worked with families where FII is suspected.

But we're wrong and shouting others down. Supposedly.

Again, neither of these things has been accurately quantified. Are you actually aware of the issues surrounding not just MbP but FII in general? Your phrasing suggests you aren't. It's a really difficult condition to discern, let alone to diagnose or treat. It's almost certainly hugely under diagnosed. MBI then complicates that further.

please quote the "gloating part".

Im experienced. Not a cunt.

So educate us then

Still waiting.