Mum friend with possible munchausens by proxy

[Schooldinners1]

What would you do?

I can't go into all the details RN but it's been going on for years.

Constant doctorsce trips in different cities, requesting different hospital when one hospital won't believe here, unexplanable illnesses, lack of diagnosis, mystified specialists, sitting in GP surgery waiting room for hours, hospital waiting room A+E, lots of messages about it all sending people photos.

Teachers suspicious and saying “don't think it's constapation”, doctors refusing to write up letters she's requesting.

Blaming allergies that are unproven and reactions for bad behaviour and constapation for when he's naughty.

Says he can't join in sports or plays because of bib or costume and his “allergies”.

There is always a drama and she seems to get pleasure from telling people about it all. Longer it goes on it looks more and more like her own “accounts” of these things happening.

The doctors stopped listening at a point she then became addicted to the homeopath. Who kept giving “pills” she then kept paying for calls even when on holiday to shamanic therapist cause his behaviour was so bad.

I don't even know when she will stop.

Very often too in these cases the mother is autistic so does such an exemplary job of noticing symptoms and pushing relentlessly for support or second opinions and this is misinterpreted as attention seeking , even in meetings reiterating things and seeking clarification is then seen as questioning professionals.

Complaining is seen as a red flag. Seeking a second opinion is seen as a red flag. Safeguarding is weaponised against a lot of wrongfully accused families

He seems normal most times when you meet him but she has described him as becoming more and more controlling of her and what she does.

So he wants all of her attention and that's when he's happiest.

Things like her doting on him, spoon feeding him and him only sleeping in her bed with the bright light on. She's a single mum.

@IntoDeepBlueSea I think our takes are probably not poles apart. It's definitely not you I disagree with the most, haha. For what it's worth, when I lean towards thinking someone has MbP, that isn't necessarily me saying that I think they are poisoning their child - it can mean a whole lot of different things, poisoning is just one extreme manifestation. And even in this case I'm not saying I think the mother in question necessarily is hurting her child. Just that I think it meets the threshold to report. It could be that they are struggling and everything is going wrong, and they need help, but the exact profile of what's wrong is not factitious illness.

No child is "just naughty", or always comes from somewhere.

Oh ffs what a load of balls! 7 year olds are perfectly capable of being naughty occasionally. My child is nearly 7 and took something from his little sister earlier. He knew full well he shouldn't have, he just took it because he wanted it and didnt realise an adult was watching so he'd get caught. That is being "naughty", having an impulse to do something you know full well you shouldn't do, and choosing to do it anyway.

@Greenleafgirl that sounds awful, it sounds like once you were caught in the system, the scrutiny was intense. Of course had you not come to their attention, and just turned up via social services, most of this would not warrant any intervention at all. Social services can't keep pace with the existing deluge of extreme child abuse cases, so going around searching for emotional abuse isn't something they can usually do- unless, as I say, you become caught in the system (which I have myself) and then have a whole lot more scrutiny than someone else. There are kids living with parents who are addicts, parents who have profound MH issues, physical neglect all over the UK that aren't attended to, it's often quite arbitrary what rises to the top and gets inspected.

When you say "in these cases", do you mean in genuine MbP/FII/FDIA cases, or in cases of mistaken accusations like yours? I'm assuming you mean the latter, but just asking for clarification because I don't think you mean that actual parents with MbP are commonly neurodiverse!

@ContinuousProcrastination - but that's not what she's describing is it? If your child was constantly destructive, I'd say there is a reason for that...

So far on this thread, the parents of allergic children totally understand how this can be a fellow allergic mother feeling desperate and not listened to.

Everyone else screams FII.

Speaks volumes.

@Greenleafgirl - your absolutely right, and your observation is exactly my experience too, every time.

@ADHDDDDDDDBOOM I have anaphylaxis, and diagnosed MCAS, and three other severe non ige allergic conditions. My mother has watched me struggle with these for my entire life. Do tell me more about how little I understand allergies.

(Sorry I can't talk about having biological children and what their allergies are like: I am too medically unstable to bear a child. My bad, I guess. My own will have to do.)

But both situations exist. Parents who can get doctors to listen exist. It’s very much a real problem, but parents with FIL exist also.

It’s not as simple as there only being one or the other.

Difficult.

I constantly worry that I'm going to be seen as one of those mothers because my daughter has a relatively unknown condition and I did have to take her to a few different doctors before I found the right one for her. I can say it is very frustrating to have doctors acknowledge something is wrong but be baffled by the cause. Because of the way people have reacted (with disbelief that there is yet another thing wrong, that doctors can genuinely be clueless and I must be lying) I deal with everything alone as much as I can and I do not share in real life.

I'd say if you have real fears, report to social services. As much as I would be horrified to have someone make such a report, I know that no social worker could find any evidence to support that claim and it would soothe whoever reported to know it was unsubstantiated. Hopefully the same is true for your friend. Children with complicated conditions and medics with no answers are more common than mothers with munschausens by proxy after all.

In cases where families are wrongly accused

I’d agree with a pp who says that MbP is where the child is being deliberately harmed by the parent which doesn’t sound like the case here.

But if the child is missing a lot of school for no real reason, that is harmful. Like I say - lots of children being brought up by parents with mental health issues and it doesn’t matter whether it’s the parent’s “fault” or not - harm is still being done.

@Greenleafgirl Thanks! Sorry, brain slow.

Intodeepbluesea

Possibly. Lots of children become naughty because they are poorly parented though. If parents/other adults don't impose appropriate consequences and boundaries children can become habituated to acting on every impulse, or repeating behaviour that has earned attention (negative or positive) before. My parent taught in a school in an area where parenting was poor and lots of the children were badly behaved on entering school as a result. In many cases their behaviour quickly improved at school with age appropriate boundaries and consequences.

Sounds like the series Mommy dead and dearest. Munchausen by proxy

I have allergies too.

Hit me like a brick when I had a child with allergies, entered the parenting allergy world with other parents the majority of which has to fight tooth and nail to be listened to.

@ADHDDDDDDDBOOM good for you

Yeah, a reason like a parent who doesn’t deal with the child’s bad behaviour and just excuses it as ‘allergies’.

I have 3 DC with non-ige CMPA. Constipation and lethargy can both be symptoms and I know how difficult it was to have DD1 diagnosed (despite my DH and my brother both having CMPA themselves) so I’m not dismissing her as fabricating his illness. However, when added up with her needing constant tests herself, constant medical emergencies for family etc it does add up to the possibility that she just loves the drama. Or a combination of both, he may genuinely have some undiagnosed condition but she is also loving the drama of it all.

I would report OP, also because if he does have an undiagnosed illness and she’s giving him god knows what from some homeopath she could just be making it worse.

That's not quite true.

It can be fabricated or induced illness.
There's more than one form, the latter being far more dangerous, both being abuse.

This is driving me a bit mad. You seem to insist that all this (including literacy problems) are because of his mum's behaviour, rather than considering she might be behaving the way she is because he is not ok, including academically.

Whatever, bottom line is someone needs to take more notice than they have been doing.

Meanwhile, when you say "everyone is afraid" I have visions of you all having a good natter about her at the school gates.

@ADHDDDDDDDBOOM

So are you saying you don’t think it should be investigated because it might be allergies then?

Yes, it was truly great 😩

Honestly, lol at the idea that being severely allergic with complex allergies is somehow never going to be good enough for your opinion to be worth anything, and if you are too unwell to have a child - if that is literally the medical opinion of your doctors - despite having had severe allergies your entire life that have had major impacts on you, somehow it's the being childless that is more important?

I have heard that childless women get treated badly on here but it's never actually happened to me before.