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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

In tears all day, flashbacks to fucking up awful final hours of Mum's cancer, starting to drink

137 replies

PleaseMakeItGoAway · 28/05/2023 22:23

I need to make it stop. I'm tearful all day over loads of stuff around her death really but at the back of it is the awful thing that happened when Mum was dying.

She choked and made a noise like drowning, like she was afraid. I didn't try to roll her on her side in case I made it all worse. I didn't try to roll her because when she was conscious, she was uncomfortable even gingerly lying on her side.

This was because she had huge tumours all through her abdomen and I was fucking afraid that the vascularised tumours would rupture and haemorrhage, or that there would be a massive variceal bleed.

So she choked and I didn't do anything but call for the hospice nurse, and now how do I live with that for the rest of my life? How am I supposed to do that?

I have poured myself a drink to make it stop but I can't obviously do this very often. I'm in counselling but a therapist can't make what I have done (or failed to do) not be the reality.

OP posts:
SquirrelHash · 28/05/2023 22:25

Hun they all do this. There's a TikTok from a end of life nurse on this. Have your drink then address it tomorrow? I'm so sorry for your loss.

Original poster
PleaseMakeItGoAway · 28/05/2023 22:27

They don't all do this though, this was my third immediate family member death who I have held the hand of and it feels like my fault that somehow I dropped the ball and let her down and let this happen.

The others weren't like this.

OP posts:
psyonicwaves · 28/05/2023 22:28

What were you going to do? With all those tumours, she was going to die one way or another. You couldn't have saved her. You were there when she went and that's all anyone could've been.

Sohereitissuddenly · 28/05/2023 22:28

I don't think this is unusual. I read about terminal agitation when my Dad died recently. It is very hard to watch. Could you speak to Macmillan? It might help you come to terms with it. Sorry for your loss x

Original poster
PleaseMakeItGoAway · 28/05/2023 22:29

psyonicwaves · 28/05/2023 22:28

What were you going to do? With all those tumours, she was going to die one way or another. You couldn't have saved her. You were there when she went and that's all anyone could've been.

Of course she was going to die.

I feel like I should have known and requested more medication at an earlier point and I didn't know, and so this happened.

OP posts:
Moomoola · 28/05/2023 22:30

Hello, I’m so so sorry to hear this. I can’t help, but offer my story and hope it will help, somehow. Our mum had dementia, and brother gave her a drink, but of course it caused awful, painful choking. We didn’t know, and no one told us that it’s best to soak a tissue in water and moisten their mouth. No one tells you this stuff, and of course you don’t know. Similarly, you did the best you could at the time. You called the hospice nurse, which was absolutely the best thing to do. I’m so sorry for your grief, I’d love to make it stop, because it hurts so much. But know this - you did the absolute best you could. ❤️

Original poster
PleaseMakeItGoAway · 28/05/2023 22:30

I've spoken to a helpline before, can't remember who and I think the nurse I spoke to thought I'd done the wrong thing.

OP posts:
peachgreen · 28/05/2023 22:31

How long ago was this, OP?

My DH died from a cardiac arrest. For the first 18 months or so I had flashbacks every night and thought I would never forgive myself for a) not checking on him sooner and b) not doing CPR “right”. I felt like I was going mad and would never be able to live again. It was awful.

But with time, I did get over it (not his death, but the guilt). I believe you will too.

Medstudent12 · 28/05/2023 22:31

I’m a doctor. This is in no way your fault, this is quite common, people usually aren’t aware of it as they are only semi concious. Please be kind to yourself.

KEG05 · 28/05/2023 22:31

im so sorry for your loss op but you didn’t do anything wrong and you couldn’t have done anything differently. Death is very like birth. It is a different experience for everyone it’s never exactly the same. The choking noise is common though horrid as it is to bare witness too. If you had moved her you wouldn’t have changed the outcome ❤️. X

HolyMilkBoobiesBatman · 28/05/2023 22:32

I’m so sorry for your loss.
please seek help from a psychologist specialising in grief to help you process this.

Honestly I don’t think you could have done anything else, if she was choking she may have been too physically weak to clear her airways and so by moving her you could have made her suffering worse by causing extra pain for her tumours.

Honestly you’ll never know if you could have done more, you made a snap decision based on the information you had at the time - that moving her would cause pain and distress, potentially a tumour would rupture. That’s too big a decision to put on your shoulders. You made the choice that you felt was best at the time, you cannot beat yourself up over the choice you made, it was what your instincts told you was best at the time. Please get some support.
wishing you all the best.

MakeItRain · 28/05/2023 22:32

You didn't do anything wrong. That sounds traumatic for you, but in that last bit of time, the alternative for your mum was really tough. If you had moved her, she might have been in excruciating pain, and perhaps what happened by not moving her sounded hard to you, but would have been quicker and more painless for your mum. She would have known you were with her and that will have been a comfort. Cancer is such a tough illness. I hope you can find peace. You were there with your mum supporting her which was brave and caring of you. And you did absolutely nothing wrong. ❤️

pollpp · 28/05/2023 22:34

You did the right thing OP.

Mossstitch · 28/05/2023 22:35

With all due sympathy what would have been the benefit of moving her, she was dying. The only thing you might have done is extend/prolong the dying process. It is a kindness that it happened as quickly as possible.💐

Hugasauras · 28/05/2023 22:35

You didn't let her down. She was always going to die , and I don't mean that as bluntly as it sounds, but her death was always going to happen, and it's not always peaceful and neat, no matter how much we might hope and try. We can't always ensure a good death; sometimes it is out of our power. You were with her, you rightly didn't want to move her because of so many other things going on. You called for help. If you had saved her life, what would her future have looked like? If you had stopped her choking somehow, performed CPR, would her life have been pleasant afterwards? Would she have had good months of good quality life?

We can sometimes get caught up in longevity over quality. There's a saying about animals that I think also can apply to humans: better a week too soon than a day too late.

tt9 · 28/05/2023 22:36

PleaseMakeItGoAway · 28/05/2023 22:30

I've spoken to a helpline before, can't remember who and I think the nurse I spoke to thought I'd done the wrong thing.

no offence but the nurse you spoke to is not very well trained. any health care professional worth their salt would
(a) not make any assessment of what happened in a situation like this if they weren't there and pass judgement
(b) even if hypothetically a relative did "make a mistake" (which I am not saying you did, in fact I highly doubt this), would never state this to said relative or any other family member because that would cause them huge mental anguish. First rule of medicine "first do no harm" and that includes causing mental distress
I am very sorry for your loss. I hope you find peace

psyonicwaves · 28/05/2023 22:37

PleaseMakeItGoAway · 28/05/2023 22:29

Of course she was going to die.

I feel like I should have known and requested more medication at an earlier point and I didn't know, and so this happened.

Show quote history

It's natural to blame yourself, but it won't help. What has happened has happened and there's nothing that anyone can do about it now.

dotdotdotdash · 28/05/2023 22:40

It's sounds to me that you are traumatised. Can you write down your fears and worries? Keep writing them until they are all out on paper.

I'm so sorry for your loss. It sounds like you have been through so much and that the traumatic nature of your mum's death (not your fault), is preoccupying you alongside your grief.

Greenleafgirl · 28/05/2023 22:40

Your motivation and intention is more important than any action or inaction.

You were motivated to keep her comfortable and safe, your intention was not to cause any pain or complications. You did the right thing

dotdotdotdash · 28/05/2023 22:42

I agree with @tt9, that the nurse on the helpline had no means to assess what happened based on what you might have told her and has no professional authority here

whattodo22222 · 28/05/2023 22:43

I'm so sorry for your loss. I don't have any advice but it sounds like you have PTSD. I had awful flashbacks of the decisions I made during my daughter's birth and they caused terrible insomnia. They have just about stopped one year later and if I do get them, I don't blame myself anymore. Don't be afraid to seek whatever help you can get 💐

SmirnoffIceIsNice · 28/05/2023 22:45

OP I'm so very sorry for your loss. This is grief tormenting you. You are filled with "what if's" and "why's". But think of it another way. What if you'd tried to move her on her side? You will likely have caused her horrendous pain and possibly a haemorrhage. Then you'd be tormenting yourself thinking "why didn't I just leave it to the nurses to deal with?"

Dont blame yourself for not requesting more medication. You're not the doctor or nurse and it's their responsibility to increase meds if they deem it necessary.

I have some regrets over my fathers death. I cried a lot in the days and weeks following, tormenting myself for not doing certain things. It's five years now and, although I still sometimes think back to it, I've made peace with how things happened. You will learn to live with the sequence of events, even if it doesn't seem so right now.

Please go easy on yourself. Things are raw right now, but they will get easier, honestly 💐

bloodywhitecat · 28/05/2023 22:46

I question every single part of what I did, or didn't, do in DH's last days. I don't think I will ever feel completely at peace with it but none of that questioning changes anything. I think lots of us in your situation feel the same way, I think lots of us have that same loop playing in our heads but the truth is we did the best we could. You said yourself that lying on her side was painful for her, you wouldn't have been able to turn her without causing her great distress. She knew you were there and she knew she was loved, sitting with someone as they die is one of the hardest things we do and it leaves us with so much guilt and so many unanswered questions.

I feel like I should have known and requested more medication at an earlier point and I didn't know, and so this happened. If that were the case then the experts looking after her should've known too but they didn't. No-one knew because every journey is different.

Do you think you might have PTSD?

Northernsouloldies · 28/05/2023 22:46

With the kindest intent, op you didn't put your mum in a hospice cancer did that and cancer took her. Nothing you could have done to prevent that. Sorry for your loss.

Xrays · 28/05/2023 22:48

I’ve nursed 3 very close family members through terminal bowel cancer and I promise you every death is traumatic in some way. It’s very unusual for someone to peacefully slip away - I do know it happens because my Grandad died in his sleep at 87 and my Gran rang up worried she couldn’t wake him up (!) but that’s unusual, unfortunately most deaths are horrible in some way, just no one talks about it. I know that probably won’t help but I remember feeling exactly like you after witnessing my Grans death (which was identical to how you described your experience here) and feeling I would never recover from it and then I went through my Mum and Uncles deaths and theirs were just as horrible in different ways (my Mums bowel essentially exploded from the tumours and they couldn’t set up the syringe driver for 24 hours due to a terrible miscommunication. In some weird way knowing it’s more common and actually I probably couldn’t have made any difference made me feel better.

Ultimately you have to just try to forget. I know it’s not easy but you literally have to push it out of your mind like it was some bad dream and live in the moment. It’s the only way I stay sane. I remind myself my Gran / Mum / uncle had 80 / 70 / 75 years of living and the bad bit was only a short time at the end. And I don’t want to spend my whole life living in that bad moment.

You will get through this.