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Original poster

In tears all day, flashbacks to fucking up awful final hours of Mum's cancer, starting to drink

137 replies

PleaseMakeItGoAway · 28/05/2023 22:23

I need to make it stop. I'm tearful all day over loads of stuff around her death really but at the back of it is the awful thing that happened when Mum was dying.

She choked and made a noise like drowning, like she was afraid. I didn't try to roll her on her side in case I made it all worse. I didn't try to roll her because when she was conscious, she was uncomfortable even gingerly lying on her side.

This was because she had huge tumours all through her abdomen and I was fucking afraid that the vascularised tumours would rupture and haemorrhage, or that there would be a massive variceal bleed.

So she choked and I didn't do anything but call for the hospice nurse, and now how do I live with that for the rest of my life? How am I supposed to do that?

I have poured myself a drink to make it stop but I can't obviously do this very often. I'm in counselling but a therapist can't make what I have done (or failed to do) not be the reality.

OP posts:
GorgeousGoldies · 28/05/2023 22:52

Oh love, it’s totally normal to feel like this - I’ve seen my Dad and close friend die. Unless you are medically trained, how would you know what to do or expect? Deaths are different in the same way births are.

I’m so sorry for your loss, but you are not to blame for how it happened 💐

Moraxella · 28/05/2023 22:53

I’m a Dr and I struggle with the last days/hours of both my parents dying. I’ve cried about it this evening before reading this thread. I get flashbacks and guilt and sadness about what I did and didn’t do. It’s painful.

Yellowcakestand · 28/05/2023 22:56

You did nothing wrong. It happens some times. It happened when my nan died. Choking and gurgling and the nurse was expecting it to happen and said its just natural reflexes and at that point she was gone and wouldn't have known about it. Its where the body relaxes and any fluid built up in lungs is expelled. I just wish we would have known that at the time as we panicked until the nurse explained.
I hope you find some peace xx

Mariposista · 28/05/2023 23:00

OP please please stop torturing yourself. Your mother was so desperately unwell, there was nothing you could have done to save her. You did brilliantly, staying by her side in her final moments and she will not begrudge you anything.
Last month I sat through my beloved gran's final days with her. Her death was also horrendous, not peaceful at all. The palliative nurses did their absolute best to make her comfortable but it was awful, so I know exactly how you are feeling. Please don't turn to drink, you will feel a million times worse. Seek comfort from friends, family, your community, your doctor or counsellor, whoever can give you comfort. Time will heal, but be gentle to yourself. This is so not your fault. Your mother had a vile disease that hopefully one day, we will no longer need to be afraid of.

Original poster
PleaseMakeItGoAway · 28/05/2023 23:01

It sounded like her voice though, not just choking and gurgling.

Was that just because her vocal chords were activated by the activity in her throat?

How do I know she was definitely past a conscious experiencing of choking at that point?

OP posts:
Original poster
PleaseMakeItGoAway · 28/05/2023 23:03

Seek comfort from friends, family, your community, your doctor or counsellor, whoever can give you comfort

I can't because I feel I don't deserve it because I let her down.

Well, my counsellor yes I can weep openly with her. But I don't want to worry my partner or my best friend, and I don't deserve comfort anyway.

OP posts:
Elvis1956 · 28/05/2023 23:04

Mate I could have given m my dad 6 months extra life...the doctors proposed it, if I had said yes, we would have had 6 months minimum extra.

I said no. He would have had 6 months extra of pain, misery, not being able to get out of the house let alone go for a beer (he went out every night all my life)

so you didn't react, you r mum may have lived a few more hours, or perhaps days...in the end she knew you loved her...you were there, she wasn't alone. She died on her own terms, no machine keeping her artificially alive

Fernticket · 28/05/2023 23:04

Medstudent12 · 28/05/2023 22:31

I’m a doctor. This is in no way your fault, this is quite common, people usually aren’t aware of it as they are only semi concious. Please be kind to yourself.

This ⬆️.
OP, I'm so sorry for your loss. From what you have said, you did all you could. If you had moved her,you could have caused her terrible pain. You are in no way to blame.

GulesMeansRed · 28/05/2023 23:05

Oh OP, it's so hard. My dad died recently too and my sibling and I took the decision not to be at the end, and took mum home - he died overnight. The nurses warned us that even though Dad was on very strong medication that the end is often not pretty.

What you witnessed was hugely distressing and traumatising. You would not have been able to do anything to change that. Please look after yourself and keep doing the therapy.

78Summer · 28/05/2023 23:06

My mum also died very traumatically and I had ptsd. The memories would play in my mind like a loop - what I should have done, could have done - as if I was still there in the room. But time is the healer. Six years on and I can feel acceptance at what happened. Sadness and grief at the unfairness but the flashbacks have faded.
Your mum would not want you to feel so awful. Please stay strong for her.

Xrays · 28/05/2023 23:08

PleaseMakeItGoAway · 28/05/2023 23:03

Seek comfort from friends, family, your community, your doctor or counsellor, whoever can give you comfort

I can't because I feel I don't deserve it because I let her down.

Well, my counsellor yes I can weep openly with her. But I don't want to worry my partner or my best friend, and I don't deserve comfort anyway.

You didn’t let her down. You called for the nurse - which was exactly the right thing to do in that situation.

DoughnutDreams · 28/05/2023 23:08

It is likely to have been terminal secretions, which can sound like choking or drowning, but is really just air gargling over fluids in a relaxed throat. The person isn't suffering or distressed. In fact, it comes because the person is so close to death that their brain isn't signalling to swallow and isn't conscious of it.

Domino20 · 28/05/2023 23:08

The way people with terminal illnesses are treated in this country is appalling and NONE of that is your fault.

GulesMeansRed · 28/05/2023 23:11

And for others reading this thread - OP made the decision she wanted to stay until the end and be there and that was the right decision for her. For us, the right decision was for us to take mum home, watch rubbish telly, switch the phone off and call back in the morning.

You don't have to be with a loved one to the end. It's OK to be a bit selfish and protect yourself from what the OP is going through. In many cases the person who is dying will be unconscious and unaware if you're there or not. Make the right decisions for you and your family, take advice from the medical staff and don't be guilted into staying unless you really want to.

I do think you should share how you are feeling OP. You don't need to spill your guts but you owe it to your partner at least to tell him that you are struggling to come to terms with the last minutes of your mother's life.

Cruse helpline :

Helpline - Cruse Bereavement Support

Our Helpline volunteers are here to help you make sense of how you're feeling.

https://www.cruse.org.uk/get-support/helpline

Irisheyesareshining · 28/05/2023 23:11

I tried to give my dad a drink the night before he died of terminal prostate cancer. He was so thirsty and has sadly lost his ability to speak. I remember so well saying dad are you thirsty and him choking on the water . It’s taken me a long time to realise it’s nobody’s fault 😢

FiveShelties · 28/05/2023 23:12

I am sure your Mum would not want you to feel like this.

It is tough losing your Mum, my Mum died two weeks ago and even though I knew she was on end of life care it was still a shock. You need to remember the good times and remember your Mum as she would like you to remember her.

Original poster
PleaseMakeItGoAway · 28/05/2023 23:15

DoughnutDreams · 28/05/2023 23:08

It is likely to have been terminal secretions, which can sound like choking or drowning, but is really just air gargling over fluids in a relaxed throat. The person isn't suffering or distressed. In fact, it comes because the person is so close to death that their brain isn't signalling to swallow and isn't conscious of it.

I have heard terminal secretions before though and they didn't have the sound and tone of the person's own distinctive voice throughout the gurgling and rasping. That's happened twice before that I have experienced.

This sounded different.

But, I do respect that people are saying each death is very different so perhaps that's why.

OP posts:
Hillsmakeyoustrong · 28/05/2023 23:17

This reminds me of my FILs death from cancer. It was loud, it was hard to witness. I think what you describe even has a name, the death rattle. It is a normal part of the dying process but my God it was hard to watch. I don't think he had any idea of what was going on and that's not defensive hope speaking, that is genuinely my opinion. DH still gets very upset 3 years on, understandably. And yes i think vocal chords could be activated as you describe.

I'm very sorry for your loss.

Ivyiris · 28/05/2023 23:29

As someone who nurses people at end of life, you absolutely done the right thing. For us it sounds horrible but to them they wouldn't be aware. Hope you get some closure on this in time, may be worth speaking to someone from palliative care. So sorry for your loss

Xrays · 28/05/2023 23:31

PleaseMakeItGoAway · 28/05/2023 23:15

I have heard terminal secretions before though and they didn't have the sound and tone of the person's own distinctive voice throughout the gurgling and rasping. That's happened twice before that I have experienced.

This sounded different.

But, I do respect that people are saying each death is very different so perhaps that's why.

Show quote history

The death rattle is very common. And yes sometimes you do hear what seems to be their voice. It’s not that unusual.

When my Mum was right at the end I do believe she was semi conscious even though the nurses kept telling me she wasn’t. I honestly think they wanted me to believe that because they were trying to make me feel better, and I understand that but I know my Mum and when I walked into her room and saw her, mouth open, rattling sounds, gurgling, I also could feel her anger coming through in the noises- it’s hard to explain but she was a very angry person all her life and I could hear the same sorts of noises and feel the same anger from her in those moments. I think she was angry with the nurses for not sorting her pain relief out properly and she was angry with them for letting me see her like that. I could truly sense that. I was very upset by seeing her like that and sat outside her room on the floor, torn between staying and knowing if I stayed I’d be further traumatised. So I decided to go. And I had no idea if that was the right thing to do or not but she died an hour later. Apparently it’s quite common for people to wait for everyone to leave to then die.

4 years on and I still think about it a lot, all the should I have done xyz etc but it’s not going to change anything.

Until people have been through it they really won’t understand. It is life changing. But not ending. Yours didn’t end when hers did.

Mirabai · 28/05/2023 23:34

Oh OP, it was just the death rattle, it’s different in different people. You did exactly the right thing.

Your mum would be so sad to see you torturing yourself like this. Try to get some peace. x

ThreeLocusts · 28/05/2023 23:36

O just to say you do deserve solace. You were there with her, you subjected yourself to witnessing this. You acted on the information yu had. Be kind to yourself, you deserve it.

silverlentils · 28/05/2023 23:38

I am so very sorry for your loss and how traumatic it has been for you. You did EXACTLY the right thing, which was to call a nurse, you could not have done anything else.

I think this type of trauma response is your brains way of going in a loop trying to find a way to make the person live, it's known as the bargaining stage of grief...if I could go back and do x or y they could still live, I would have some power to make them be alive.

It was totally out of your hands though, as it is for all of us when that time comes. There are very few things in life we have no control over which is hard for us, as humans, to comprehend, but death is one of them.

Please know that this is a stage of grieving and have a drink and if there is one thing I'm sure of, your mum wants you to have a good life and a happy one. The suggestions to speak to Macmillan or a grief counselling service are good ones.
And I am sorry for what a phone nurse told you before, but she was wrong - calling a nurse in that situation was the only thing you could have done and the exact right thing.

Babyroobs · 28/05/2023 23:38

It sounds like your mum was just too weak to clear the secretions and even with drugs to dry up the secretions, they don't always work so even if you had requested drugs to help there is no guarantee they would work. End of life secretions don't generally distress the dying person, it is more distressing for the person having to watch and listen. Sometimes turning makes things worse, sometimes helps a little but again there's no guarantee and can distress someone further to turn them at this stage. Please don't beat yourself up about this. I've witnessed a lot of deaths that sounds similar to your mums and it sounds as though nothing would have altered things. She is at peace now and would not want you to be distressed over this. I hope you have people for support.

SootysCaravan · 28/05/2023 23:39

So sorry for your loss OP. It sounds like you did exactly what your dear Mum would’ve wanted by staying by her side. Please be kind to yourself and don’t allow those final moments to override a lifetime of happy memories