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Original poster

In tears all day, flashbacks to fucking up awful final hours of Mum's cancer, starting to drink

137 replies

PleaseMakeItGoAway · 28/05/2023 22:23

I need to make it stop. I'm tearful all day over loads of stuff around her death really but at the back of it is the awful thing that happened when Mum was dying.

She choked and made a noise like drowning, like she was afraid. I didn't try to roll her on her side in case I made it all worse. I didn't try to roll her because when she was conscious, she was uncomfortable even gingerly lying on her side.

This was because she had huge tumours all through her abdomen and I was fucking afraid that the vascularised tumours would rupture and haemorrhage, or that there would be a massive variceal bleed.

So she choked and I didn't do anything but call for the hospice nurse, and now how do I live with that for the rest of my life? How am I supposed to do that?

I have poured myself a drink to make it stop but I can't obviously do this very often. I'm in counselling but a therapist can't make what I have done (or failed to do) not be the reality.

OP posts:
SpidersAreShitheads · 29/05/2023 04:53

pbdr · 28/05/2023 23:43

I'm a doctor, and I've looked after countless patients at the end of life. Choking/gurgling/vocalisations are very common in a person's final hours. They can be an indication that the person is becoming less conscious and are no longer protecting their airway. It's highly likely that your mum was unaware of what was happening, but it can still be very distressing for you to witness. If your mum had previously had pain/discomfort being on her side you absolutely made the right call in not moving her. I don't know if she would still have been able to feel any pain by that stage but it's not worth taking the risk, and moving her would not ultimately have made any difference. You were right to call the hospice nurse.
For what it is worth, if I found myself in the same situation with my own mum I would do exactly what you did. You have not let her down at all, you've just endured the horrible experience of having to see your mum die, and while it is natural to feel you should have protected her from everything that happened, the sad reality is that that is not in your power. I have little doubt that if your mum could read this post she would be the first to reassure you that you did everything that could be done for her at the end. You were there for her, and while you couldn't fix it (because it couldn't be fixed) you stuck by her so that she didn't have to go through it alone.
You should be feeling proud of yourself, not guilty. I hope you find some peace.

Oh sweetheart. You’re not to blame. Read this excellent post from @pbdr and then read it again.

You did the right thing.

Can I tell you about my dad dying? He was making awful, awful choking noises for over 24 hours. I was so upset listening to it. I was convinced he was in some kind of terrible distress.

Randomly, and unexpectedly, he suddenly woke up about 7 hours before he died. He indicated he was in no pain, and seemed very comfortable. It was bizarre as he was making these dreadful noises but the nurses were there too and he was in no discomfort. He then lost consciousness again. A few hours later he died.

At the moment he passed he made the same noises you described. I did the same as you, I panicked and called the nurse. I then sat with him in his final seconds and just waited with him.

You did a wonderful, kind thing. You faced something really scary just to give comfort to your mum. What a beautiful, loving person you are. On some level I’m sure your mum felt your presence and would have been comforted knowing she wasn’t alone.

Would you be so hard on yourself for not knowing how to fix a car? Or wire up electrics? Of course not because those are jobs for professionals. You’re not a trained doctor or nurse either - you did the right thing by calling in a professional instantly. Imagine if you had moved her and made it worse - what would you be saying now? You’d be blaming yourself for not leaving her and just calling the nurse.

Guilt is part of grief. I blamed myself for not doing certain things, and the nurses had to work very hard to convince me that I wasn’t to blame. It’s a natural emotion but try not to hold onto it.

Sending you a whole lot of love. Please do post again if you need more support ❤️❤️

ThomasinaLivesHere · 29/05/2023 04:58

If you’d moved her and she’d died you could likely be on here castigating yourself for having moved her when she didn’t want to be on her side and you’d wonder if you’d left her would she still be alive. I’m sorry for your loss but I do think you’re being unreasonable and don’t deserve this guilt you put on yourself. Also I wouldn’t pay attention to the poll you have as it’s not so clear how to vote.

Twiglets1 · 29/05/2023 05:03

GulesMeansRed · 28/05/2023 23:11

And for others reading this thread - OP made the decision she wanted to stay until the end and be there and that was the right decision for her. For us, the right decision was for us to take mum home, watch rubbish telly, switch the phone off and call back in the morning.

You don't have to be with a loved one to the end. It's OK to be a bit selfish and protect yourself from what the OP is going through. In many cases the person who is dying will be unconscious and unaware if you're there or not. Make the right decisions for you and your family, take advice from the medical staff and don't be guilted into staying unless you really want to.

I do think you should share how you are feeling OP. You don't need to spill your guts but you owe it to your partner at least to tell him that you are struggling to come to terms with the last minutes of your mother's life.

Cruse helpline :

Thank you

Twiglets1 · 29/05/2023 05:06

This thread has really touched me and I’m so sorry for your loss @PleaseMakeItGoAway and for everyone else who has shared their experiences.
It’s awful when a loved one dies - I carry guilt from the way my mum died and the main thing that brings me comfort is to remember who she was. The sort of person who, if she could comment on it would say, “don’t be daft- you did your best”.

FrenchFancie · 29/05/2023 05:39

I’ve recently sat with a close relative dying of cancer - she got very full of secretions, making horrible choking sounds as she lost her cough reflex, it was very disturbing to listen to, but like you I couldnt move her (she has cancers in her bones and at least one fracture at the time of death). Her hospice team were lovely and reassuring, confirming that whilst it might sound awful she wasn’t in distress. They did give her some medication to ‘dry up’ the secretions but she didn’t seem uncomfortable either way. I suspect this was given for my benefit not hers!

please talk about this with your counsellor - you didn’t do anything wrong, or fail to do anything you should have.

LumpySpaceCow · 29/05/2023 06:07

Hi OP,

I am so sorry for your loss.
I wanted to say that I had similar feelings after my own mum had died - a feeling that I hadn't advocated for her at her most vulnerable when I promised that I would. At one point, she was so agitated and calling out for me and I wondered whether this was because I promised that she wouldn't be in pain. Another thing that troubled me, is a comment I made to a nurse - they were doing her observations when she was clearly dying and I questioned this in front of mum - she was unconscious but I always wonder whether she heard me mention her dying - but then she was an incredibly self aware individual who knew her own body better than anyone else so I'm pretty sure she knew!
I share this to highlight that I think in the aftermath of a death, it is normal to have these thoughts. You mention about trying to get more medication - this is an easy thing to tell yourself in hindsight, but in reality, this wasn't your responsibility - you were there as her daughter, not as her nurse, and you did the right thing in calling someone, a professional, who should then sympton manage.
10 years have passed since my own mum died, and I no longer have those thoughts and feelings - I have accepted that I did what I could at the time and I couldn't have micromanaged the situation- that was up to the professionals.

I'm assuming your mum's death was recent? If so, could you have a debrief with the hospital/hospice regarding what happened - I am sure they will be able to reassure you.

queenofthesoi · 29/05/2023 06:55

Oh, I totally understand.
My mum died of cancer nearly 10 years ago and I still have flashbacks of her last days. Of her screaming in pain in the ambulance on the way to the hospice from the hsopital, begging me to make it stop and me being totally helpless. I blamed myself for not being more forceful with the hospital about the pain meds.
The death rattle at the end.
It was horrendous.
I'm so sorry for your loss. Talk about it, cry about it. It gets easier, the memories dull and don't pre-occupy you as much. And just a lot of sympathy.

Twiglets1 · 29/05/2023 07:11

queenofthesoi · 29/05/2023 06:55

Oh, I totally understand.
My mum died of cancer nearly 10 years ago and I still have flashbacks of her last days. Of her screaming in pain in the ambulance on the way to the hospice from the hsopital, begging me to make it stop and me being totally helpless. I blamed myself for not being more forceful with the hospital about the pain meds.
The death rattle at the end.
It was horrendous.
I'm so sorry for your loss. Talk about it, cry about it. It gets easier, the memories dull and don't pre-occupy you as much. And just a lot of sympathy.

I’m so sorry that your mum & you had to endure this.

My mum died of lung cancer 5 years ago in hospital and to give them their due, they gave her lots of pain medication. The morphine did make her less lucid but I don’t think she was in much pain if any at the end, she was peaceful.

5128gap · 29/05/2023 07:12

Your feelings are a natural part of grief. Death is such a huge thing for human beings to accept that we seek ways to feel we control it. If we had done this or that we could have avoided, delayed or prevented it
I promise you that had you acted differently you would be blaming yourself for that too.
People have reassured you, and theres's probably a part of you that knows deep down they're right. Your mum was under professional end of life care, they wouldn't have allowed anything you did or didnt do to impact that.
The feelings are just your mind trying to process the modt difficult thing we face as people and in doing so, its giving you thoughts and feelings that dont reflect thd truth. Its a stage of grief and in time will pass.

Birdsongsinging · 29/05/2023 07:26

Would it help to think about what you would say to others in this situation and try to say it to yourself? I think being kind applies to us as much as others. You wouldnt be telling someone else they were to blame or had done things wrong so when you start thinking that about yourself try to come up with alternatives? What kind of counselling are you getting? What do they advise?

WeAreTheHeroes · 29/05/2023 07:26

You have been given great advice on this thread OP. What stuck out to me was how hard you are on yourself. Please don't be, speak to those people close to you and let them help you x 💐

nicesunday · 29/05/2023 07:32

Medstudent12 · 28/05/2023 22:31

I’m a doctor. This is in no way your fault, this is quite common, people usually aren’t aware of it as they are only semi concious. Please be kind to yourself.

This.

It doesn't necessarily happen to everyone, but it is a very normal and common thing to happen in the dying process.

People who are dying lose their automatic swallowing response, so with all the secretions that are produced these then sit in their throat and make some really horrible noises as they breathe.

Even being on end of life medication wouldn't necessarily have stopped what you saw. And rolling her probably wouldn't have made any difference to shifting the secretions. I'd actually suggest you did the right thing with the aim of keeping her comfortable in mind by not moving her (she may have had a more conscious response to the intense pain you describe her experiencing when not on her back), which coupled with difficulty in breathing would have been far more distressing for her.

Againstmachine · 29/05/2023 07:34

Please stop feeling guilty, it isn't your fault, and your mum wouldn't want you to be feeling like this.

It was the cancer that caused this nothing you did.

NoDrinksForMe · 29/05/2023 07:39

OP I don't know what type of counsellor you are seeing, but I would look into someone who specialises in EMDR.

Guilt is a natural part of grieving, but you are not to blame. There have been plenty of replies from people on here saying that they have experienced similar or would have done exactly the same as you, even the fully trained and qualified medics.

Please go easy on yourself.

FormerlyPathologicallyHappy · 29/05/2023 07:40

You did nothing wrong, nothing can save them at the end. Their dying and the aim is to stop them suffering not prolong life. It’s a brutal process.

When dh died he didn’t death rattle or get colour changes in his hands and feet he slipped away so unexpectedly even the sister who rang me sounded surprised. I don’t feel guilty not being there because a lot of people want to die in privacy.

queenofthesoi · 29/05/2023 07:47

@Twiglets1
My Dad also died from cancer a few years after. He had home hospice set up, he received adequate pain medication and his pain was controlled. He died peacefully in his own pyjamas in his own bed.

I miss my Dad terribly but I get a lot of comfort that he had a good death. I only wish I could have igven that to my Mum. It doesn't have to be like that. (The hospice was great at getting her the pain medication but the hospital was always a step behind)

ForeverWasAgesAgo · 29/05/2023 07:53

OP, I am so sorry for your loss and I am so sorry to hear that you are feeling so awful.
This thread is incredibly moving. There are some heart wrenching accounts here.
It seems that it's normal to dwell on a loved ones last moments rather than seeing that final part of their lives as what it is and that's just one part of a whole lifetime of experiences.

My Dad had terminal cancer and was given maybe a year to live but died very shortly after his diagnosis of COVID which I passed on to him.
I had tested the day before I saw him but not on the actual day. It 100% came from me. It's a bit of a weird feeling tbh.
What helped me is that whenever I feel shaken about it I would repeat to myself , out loud, that it wasn't my fault. I also consciously tell myself that my Dad had a good life with a family that loved him and that we had a great relationship.
I kept (keep?) repeating that same 'sound bite' to myself.

I still have my moments but I know that's normal.

OP you have gone through something that is extremely difficult and traumatic. You have to be kind to yourself. Punishing yourself is not going to help you.

I really feel for you and hope that you can find peace with what has happened

💐💐💐

Fraaahnces · 29/05/2023 07:55

My mum died similarly and it traumatised me for years. Now I know better (have studied to be a nurse since) I hope it’s reassuring to know that her quick death was probably kinder than being resuscitated and having another week or two, drugged up to her eyeballs until her body dehydrated enough to let her go “gently”. My grandmother lasted three weeks after being sedated until she died and honestly, her body was rotting prior to her death. She would have loathed that indignity.

surreygirl1987 · 29/05/2023 07:57

But if you did move her, it might have been so much worse and you'd be regretting not moving her. This isn't your fault.

Clementineorsatsuma · 29/05/2023 08:01

I think you have PTSD, and this needs very specific treatment. Please go see your GP and specify this, to start to heal.
Cruse are also really good.
You were there OP, and with her. As her daughter, not her medic. She wasn't alone. Please accept that you have trauma, not fault.

olympicsrock · 29/05/2023 08:04

Hello OP , I’m so sorry that you are feeling this way. I’m a doctor - this was not your fault you have nothing to feel guilty about. You didn’t need to turn her. This sounds like a ‘death rattle’ with secretions. I don’t think she would have been aware or suffering.

There is a technique called thought blocking that I was taught by a psychologist for this situation. You say a word that has no emotion attached ‘the’ or ‘table’ work well. Say it out loud or in your head every few seconds until your brain has stopped the awful thought. If in bed , get up make a cup of tea , do something to distract your brain. Then repeat - this was NOT my fault. There was nothing I could do. She did not suffer. Say this mantra several times a day out loud. I promise it will help.

SamPoodle123 · 29/05/2023 08:04

Many people die this way. Not all, but many. It depends how they die. Death is a sad part of lie and can be traumatic. My dad's heart stopped if they had let him go then he would have just dropped dead without the gasping. But unfortunately, they brought him back (we would have made a DNR if we knew that bringing him back would just prolong the suffering). So he ended up doing the gasping for breath at the end. My grandma had the same. Nothing you can do to change that.

PuddlesPityParty · 29/05/2023 08:06

Oh OP, sending you love. There’s a hospice nurse on tiktok who makes really good posts about things like this, maybe check her out - hospicenursepenny

faffadoodledo · 29/05/2023 08:08

OP. You were there. That is the important thing. You did a brave and good thing.

I watched my dad die in similar circumstances. No one tells you how bad it can be.
My mum died a distressing death too. But i wasn't there. I wish I had been.

Flashbacks are very common. They are horrible. You have my sympathies xx

misspositivepants · 29/05/2023 08:13

PleaseMakeItGoAway · 28/05/2023 23:15

I have heard terminal secretions before though and they didn't have the sound and tone of the person's own distinctive voice throughout the gurgling and rasping. That's happened twice before that I have experienced.

This sounded different.

But, I do respect that people are saying each death is very different so perhaps that's why.

Show quote history

“I have heard terminal secretions before though and they didn't have the sound and tone of the person's own distinctive voice throughout the gurgling and rasping. That's happened twice before that I have experienced”

my dad did this, I was petrified and wanted him to stay and thought maybe they could save him when he made this sound. I went and got the ICU dr who said the noises were just a normal part of the process. You could tell it was my dad making the noises, as soon as I stepped on the ward to be with him I knew it was him.

I hope this helps x