In tears all day, flashbacks to fucking up awful final hours of Mum's cancer, starting to drink

[PleaseMakeItGoAway]

I need to make it stop. I'm tearful all day over loads of stuff around her death really but at the back of it is the awful thing that happened when Mum was dying.

She choked and made a noise like drowning, like she was afraid. I didn't try to roll her on her side in case I made it all worse. I didn't try to roll her because when she was conscious, she was uncomfortable even gingerly lying on her side.

This was because she had huge tumours all through her abdomen and I was fucking afraid that the vascularised tumours would rupture and haemorrhage, or that there would be a massive variceal bleed.

So she choked and I didn't do anything but call for the hospice nurse, and now how do I live with that for the rest of my life? How am I supposed to do that?

I have poured myself a drink to make it stop but I can't obviously do this very often. I'm in counselling but a therapist can't make what I have done (or failed to do) not be the reality.

Op I just wanted to give you a massive virtual hug. My mum died in January. She was found dead in the bathroom. I have flashbacks of getting to the house, her on the floor, the police. I didn't hug her till she was ready to be taken. The guilt I feel now not sitting with her in the bathroom while we waited for the ambulance and I too started drinking. But it's just kicking the grief can down the road. I'm so sorry that you and your lovely mum had to experience this. Like others said, you did the right thing and you have to give yourself a pass on this one. Most important thing is you were there for your mum when she passed. I wish I could have been. You are a strong and wonderful daughter. Your mum wouldn't want you to torture yourself. Warmest hugest hugs.

So sorry to hear about your mum. I don't know whether this will help but my mother in law died of cancer 8 years ago. We were all called to the hospital because she was dying. At one point she was gasping for breath saying 'I can't breathe, help me, make it stop" and trying to grab us. She asked us to kill her. It was so traumatic. One nurse told us she was drowning in her own fluids. Her breathing slowed down until there were huge gaps between breaths and her hands and feet were cold and they told us it was the end, but the next day she woke up. She ended up living another 6 months of completely normal life. I think her cancer wasn't the problem at that point but she had had some kind of heart problem and somehow got better for a time. She had absolutely no memory of any of that happening. No idea of what she'd said to us or done, even though she seemed lucid and completely aware at the time. That reassured us and brought us some comfort when she did die because we knew that she wasn't really aware.

What a lovely post.

You did the right thing but I'm so sorry for your loss

Sorry for your loss, OP. Two things occur to me. First, we often blame ourselves for a death or the way we reacted during a death. I think it's a way of trying to tell ourselves we had control over the situation, when in reality we had none. But it somehow feels easier to blame ourselves, and therefore give ourselves the illusion of control, rather than face up to this being a situation completely beyond our control.

Also ask yourself, even if you had done something wrong, which I really don't think you did, would your mum want you to blame yourself in this way? I would bet she wouldn't want you beating yourself up this much.

And if you had moved her, what then? Because it could all have gone wrong then. Do talk to people involved in end of life care. Death can be a horrible process, it's not generally the peaceful sigh and drifting off that we see on TV.

im Sorry you’re going through this. For what it’s worth, I’ve lived with the regret of not giving my parent a drink as they were clearly very dehydrated and dying as much of that as the cancer. I was worried about choking. And yet I feel like I caused immense suffering by not trying to give a drink. So what I’m saying is whatever you do, it feels wrong. Your mum knew you loved her very much and you were there at the end doing your best. It is enough. I’d definitely seek help for PTSD

The death rattle is a thing.

you couldn’t have done anything.

im sorry for your loss.

I’m quoting this to backup the point made by this poster.

I'm so sorry about your mum OP and it sounds like you have lost many loved ones before her. You were by her side and got her help when needed. You did nothing wrong. You were there for your mum, you were a good daughter. This is grief messing with your head.

My dad died at a hospice, it was expected ( cancer) but ended up being quite sudden he ended up collapsing and dying when trying to stand up. I sat holding his hand as he died. I was the only family member there with him and then had to ring the family after. Had I told him not to stand up? He would have had a more peaceful death, but it wouldn't change the fact he was terminally ill with cancer.

I was traumatised and had flashbacks and could barely speak for days. I have tears running down my face now remembering it, but the flashbacks passed. Counselling was crucial in moving forward.

Speak to friends and family. Tell them how you feel. If you don't feel safe giving the details tell them you feel sad and miss your mum. Let them do things that help. I found meeting friends for coffee and specifically saying I didn't want to talk about my dad was helpful. It meant some light relief from the heaviness of it all.

The reality is cancer often ends in a traumatic and horrific end for those who have it. You haven't done anything wrong, she'd have been in pain and scared in either scenario.

We nursery mum at home, my last memory of her when conscious was of her screaming for the morphine she was now addicted to, I can still remember her mouth open like a baby bird searching for it. I miss fired and it went down the wrong way. It was horrifying, but it wasn't my fault.

I will say tho if I'm ever in that position again with a family member I'll think long and hard over what I can do. I think an actual hospice who would take over everything is the route I'd be going down. I'm simply not equipped emotionally to go through that again.

If you'd moved her you would have hurt her, and you'd have blamed yourself for that too. If you'd requested more medication, you'd be convinced that she died of an unnecessary overdose. Death from cancer is a horrible, horrible thing, but I promise you that it's not your fault. You couldn't have done anything to make this any better. And I promise you that this intense, sick-to-your stomach guilt will ease in time.

This is so similar to what I suggested in my post as it (mostly) works for me. I didn't realise it was a proper thing. I don't know why talking aloud to yourself works better than talking in your head but it does.

OP, you did the right thing by calling the nurse. I spent two nights and a day sitting by my mother's bed as she died and I called the nurses to check things, to ask what was happening. Death is different for everyone. For mum, it's certainly not the way I'd have imagined but I know we did the best we could in that moment. It sounds like you did the same.

OP I had a family member die from something completely different, they were ventilated and had experienced brain death. We opted to be present when the ventilator was being physically removed, there were choking sounds but yes we also heard his "voice" as he was coughing, he obviously was not conscious it was the stimulation of his vocals cords. All the best to you and your family and sorry for your loss.

I'm sorry. My dad's death was very hard. he was in so much pain and couldn't swallow or breath. It is so hard when you are so utterly helpless in doing anything for them. My comfort is we got him home to die and I know he appreciated that. xxxxx

I understand. My daughter died of cancer aged 43 and I was with her the last 6 weeks almost all the time and the evening before she died. I beat myself up because no one was actually with her the last minutes before she died.
After a lot of counselling and thought, I realise it is totally normal for people to feel guilt when someone has died in the way my daughter and your mum did. The irrational guilt is a sort of way of the psyche trying to replay it so the beloved did not die. "If only x If only y. "
BUT THEY WERE GOING TO DIE ANYWAY we could not have prevented it.
IT WAS NOT OUR FAULT.
Try repeating that as a sort of mantra, "It was not my fault; there was nothing I could have done"
But the bad thoughts dont simply stop.
I found confronting them, saying to myself "NO Stop it" putting my hand up in front of my face, or imagining a door slamming on the bad thoughts. I would consciously replay a positive thought- maybe a happy time on a beautiful place, and place it in my mind every time the bad thoughts came. In time this worked and I can replace the bad thoughts with ordinary, non blaming grief
Good luck; this will pass.

I am an end of life specialist nurse and noisy upper respiratory secretions are a normal process of dying for most people. It bothers the relative more than dying person. Maybe your other relatives were given a little injection or infusion to dry the secretions up ? I can can assure you that she would not have been aware at that stage. Ask the hospice nurse about a referral for counselling the may really benefit you.

OP please don't be so hard on yourself. You did nothing wrong. Death by cancer is not a peaceful thing. Please get support and talk to others. 🫂

My MIL and FIL passed away from cancer. And even though my FIL passed away in his sleep due to complications to his treatment it didn't make it any easier for me or the family (although, I appreciate that his passing was so much easier for him and what he would have wanted). I'm still angry at myself at times that he didn't get to die at home like he wanted to. Grief is a funny thing. You got to give yourself time and support to get through it.

And try not to drink - the feelings will still be there when you sober up.

I’m not sure how recent her death was, but I can say I struggled a lot with the death of a close family member in June and how it played out. However my feelings did improve, the worst time was the first few months. I still have my moments every now and then but it is rare now and much more manageable when the thoughts do come. I’m confident you will say the same going forward.

Hi OP,
There are things you can do which will help. We are conditioned to think a drink will help... but in my experience it's a bit rubbish for this sort of distress.
Going for a walk, or any sort of activity - tidying up, knitting, doing SOMETHING - works much better.

There's a book called "the body keeps the score" which explains how the brain deals with traumatic events like this, why flashbacks and PTSD happen, and what can help re. treating them. Not woo, not too dry, I would really recommend it.

And as PPs have said, it was an awful situation but I can't see that anything you could have done would have made much of a difference. "Gone back in time 15 years and studied research oncology and palliative care" was not a possible option. Your poor Mum was very unwell, but if she'd survived that crisis, you know she would have completely forgotten how she felt at that point (and so would you) even though the moments themselves were exactly the same...

There's a hospice nurse (canadian, maybe Julie?) who posts lots of tiktok videos on end of life. I watched a video she put up of someone actively dying with the families approval, and she was very clear this was normal. Your experience sounds similar to that. You didn't do anything wrong, you helped in every way possible. Do not 'blame' yourself you were there for your mum. I know of alot of people, families, children of the elderly who just want to be told when their parents are gone, not actively be with them, which you did. If your mum could tell you, for that alone she would be the most grateful. I have watched family members pass and all of them have been different. I have also witnessed it when I worked as a nurse in a hospital and some have been quiet peaceful experiences and some not it really depends on the circumstances, eg illness, age. All the medications in the world wouldnt necessarily have made a difference in this instance. Its a big loss for you and traumatic in itself, look after yourself and remember you were a good daughter who cared.

Of course you deserve comfort, OP. You did everything you could for your mum. You called for the nurse, and you knew the best thing for her comfort was to leave her where she was.
Nothing would have stopped her dying, she was at the end of her life.
Perhaps, instead of asking yourself “what if I had moved her”, you might say “EVEN if I had moved her, she would still have died”.
It is not your fault.

@PleaseMakeItGoAway I’m so sorry you are experiencing these flashbacks and this unbearable guilt.

I was with my Dad when he died. He had extensive liver cancer. Only officially diagnosed at post mortem.

He couldn’t breathe and the 999 operator on the phone told me to put him on his side (a specific side, can’t remember which side).

I want you to know that I did, and it made him worse. I ended up moving him onto his back again.

What you are describing (the flashbacks etc), sound very much like you may be experiencing ptsd.

There are very effective treatments for this. Research EMDR. However, when did your Mum die? Timing is everything when it comes to therapy. It may be too soon.

My Dad’s death was horrific and although it happened over 11 years ago, I still frequently have flashbacks to those awful last moments. He was in clear distress and like you, I was on my own with him.

People say well meaning things, in an attempt to alleviate your distress, and sometimes those things can leave you feeling a lot worse.

When I’m in those horrific moments, I take a deep breath and reach for my Dad, the memory of him, the love we shared, the hugs he gave me and I hold onto a very specific thought, which I cling to with all my might, until the flashback subsides… this is the thought:

My Dad loved me, he wanted the best for me, he would be so distressed if he knew I was suffering this guilt and living in these flashbacks… if he were here right now he would say… “oh my love, don’t stay here, it’s ok to tyrn away from this memory away, I don’t want you to re-live this. It’s ok to let this go.”

Then in my head, or sometimes it comes out ‘our loud’, I say, “No no no” to the flashback and then I repeat, “he’s not suffering anymore, he’s not suffering anymore, even though it was more awful than words could say, he’s not suffering anymore.”

What happened to your Mum was awful, there is nothing you could have done to make it different in that moment (unless you were some kind of superhuman with otherworldly superpowers).

And It’s ok to wish you were. It’s ok to wish you had been able to do the impossible, to have done something, anything differently… but it’s not ok to punish yourself because you couldn’t.

remind yourself, she had a whole care team and a whole care plan… you were not the only person responsible for the management of her care… you are only human…

What would your Mum have wanted for you?
it sounds like you may have been very close?
What would she say to you?

Your Mum is so much more than her final moments. Draw from the love you shared, to navigate those awful last moments. Don’t let the terror rob you of the bigger picture.

what would her advise be to you, if she could reply to your post here? What would she write here?

My Dad would have been heartbroken to think his death had left me so traumatised.

Sometimes I feel that forgiving myself for the things I couldn’t do and forgiving myself for his awful unspeakable suffering, is somehow like abandoning him or giving up… the flashbacks in my head are so vivid and real, they haunt me and make it feel like he is in an eternal loop of torture, and if I let go of those flashbacks then I am leaving him all alone to suffer. I feel like I don’t actually want the flashbacks gone because they are the very last moments I have of him and I deserve the pain… that I am bad if I don’t bear to his suffering.

But that’s just my brain trying to hold on so it can ‘fix it’ or ‘make it different’ but we can’t. It’s over.

if he were here, and he could see those flashbacks, He’d wrap me up in a massive hug and tell me:

“don’t look, keep breathing, it’s ok, I don’t want you to keep re-living this… focus on my voice… the one before I got sick… stay with me here, don’t go into that flashback. It’s ok to turn away from it… you are not abandoning me or leaving me on my own to suffer… I am not there… I am not suffering anymore… and I don’t want you to suffer… I love you… even if you had made a mistake I still wouldn’t want you to suffer… by forgiving yourself you are not letting me down, you are making me proud… because you are choosing to make the most of the life I gave you, even though it hurts and even though you’re scared.”

I don’t know what your Mum would say to you, but maybe that is a good place to start?

If the flashbacks are persistent and you cannot manage them, get the right therapy to help you process them… don’t try to numb them with food or alcohol or anything else. Because they will still be there and you will end up having to drink more and more to keep them at bay.

if , one day, you are able to let go of these last awful moments, you will be making more room in your heart to treasure and preserve the memories she would want you to have.

when my Dad died (by this point he was in the resuscitation bay in A&E and they were withdrawing life support) I whispered in his ear:

“I will live my whole life for you, in honour of you. Maybe one day I will be able to live it for myself, but it will always be because of you, in honour of you.”

then some lady gave me a leaflet about grief and we were expected to leave. Just like that. She told me I wouldn’t remember a single thing but I did and I do. I remember it all.

But we have to choose which memories we want to live in and prioritise for them.

Our parents aren’t here and they didn’t get to live any more time on this earth, so each day I try to live for my Dad and I try to be as kind to myself as he would want me to be.

I have a son now and I know I wouldn’t want him to be traumatised by my death. I’d want to wave a magic wand and not let him suffer.

I wish you peace. You are not alone x

I’m so sorry for your loss and it’s true that death no matter how and when it comes is traumatic in one way or another for the living. The person you spoke to could not have been a nurse, you didn’t do anything wrong at all during your mums final moments.

My auntie went similarly of pneumonia. She went from wheezing to seemingly panicking and gasping, I lurched forward and grasped her hand saying I’m here and then she was gone with the same choking noises.

It really freaked me out as I knew this was it, she was going and it seemed like she had become conscious. But the doctor said that her physical noises and movements were instinct, and according to the monitors she was asleep the entire time and from her perspective she did slip away peacefully. What our loved ones feel and what we see are too different things when death comes.

Please call whoever they gave you for bereavement as drink is not the answer to the flashbacks. You need actual counselling to come to grips with the trauma of your mum going plus the trauma of a stupid person then saying you did something wrong - as if!- when you were in a very vulnerable state.

You did what you felt was best at the time and that doesn’t mean that it made her death worse than it could have been. You were with her and from how heartbroken your OP reads, that was one of the most important things. Please get in touch with MacMillan for support for yourself so they can go through your experiences and answer any questions you have about it all.

It was the death of your mother, however she died you would have found something to blame on yourself. It’s all part of the grieving process. Please be kind to yourself.

OP that awful last gasp breathing noise like drowning often happens. My Mum did it. It's scary to hear but her GP told us she would have felt no pain as on morphine. Try to remember all you did to care for and help your Mum. You are feeling emotional and overwhelmed because your Mum just died. Know there was absolutely nothing you could have done. You were there with her. That would have meant everything to her. Over time you will forget the very end and remember the lovely person your Mum was.