To make my complaint about this teacher more formal

[NotTonightDeidre]

DS, 15, Y10 is really disliked by his maths teacher. It's quite obvious in the way he's treated in class (only a handful of negatives overall this year, mainly from her, not a single positive award point from her) and by how she speaks about him (on the phone/parents evening).

Don't get me wrong, I'm under no illusion that DS can be an arrogant, attitude filled, gobshite (he's 15, so it comes with the territory) but on the whole he tends to save the worst of the attitude for home.

He's a bright kid, top sets across the board & is quite often top of his classes.

I had a meeting earlier in the year with the maths teacher & DS' head of year to discuss the behaviour - it was things like chatting/turning around in class/fiddling with/tapping pens.... all low level disruption but I agree, it needs to be addressed. I explained that DS thrives on praise (I hate it, but the school system created that monster) & that she'd get a far better response if she could acknowledge when he's doing well/catch him being good. I also spoke to DS & told him that he needed to sort his self out & put the effort in. As far as I'm aware, he did for a while - I was seeing fewer negatives coming through but still no positive recognition.

Fast forward a month or two & the behaviour is kicking in again. DS feels unsupported in class, & has reached a point where he's saying "what's the point being good if she doesn't even notice".

Now, DH thinks rather than have another discussion we should put our concerns in writing so they have to be addressed. I think he's overreacting a little but then I've also seen DS go from a child who loved maths to one who doesn't even want to go to the lessons. He's even asked to get moved down a set so he can have a different teacher (and it's not because he's struggling, he's been entered for further maths & statistics alongside his regular maths GCSEs).

Would appreciate thoughts from all angles.

You DS is 15 not 5! He should be behaving because that’s what’s expected not so he can be praised. I honestly despair ffs!

I haven’t RTFT but why are you so confident he’s only awful at home? Presumably because that’s what he’s told you? Obviously he’s going to say he’s done nothing wrong. Honestly, teachers don’t have the time or energy to pick on specific kids. Teachers challenge kids who aren’t getting it right. I frequently get back chat from kids along the lines of ‘you never say anything to so & so’. So & so who comes in every lesson, sits down, does all the work and engages well with the learning. So yeah, I don’t say anything to them because they’re getting it right. I find it extremely hard to believe that your son goes to every maths lesson, does everything he’s asked to and gets negative behaviour points for no reason. And I agree with some of the replies I have read that 100% this is why nobody wants to teach anymore. We’ve been at least one teacher down in my department for three years because we simply can’t recruit. When your son has a different cover teacher everyday because all the maths teachers have left, will you be happy then? So, if you really want to do something to improve the situation, email the teacher calmly and rationally, say you want to work with them to get your son back on track, go to the meeting, take your son, believe what the teacher tells you & respond accordingly. Rationally, the teacher has nothing to gain by lying about your son’s behaviour. (Trust me, we don’t have time to pee, let alone have a bazillion meetings with parents who believe everything their kid says). Rationally, your son does stand to gain by saying/implying he’s picked on.

Oh who cares?! He’s clever, he’s doing 3 maths based GCSEs. Just tell him to do his revision and make sure he gets top grades. Just tell him to accept this teacher isn’t going to dole out the praise and quite frankly, who cares? He just needs some great grades and then he never has to associate with this teacher again.

I seriously worry for the future of this country with the generation of self entitled,feral little shits being raised.

You have said that the teacher “singles him out”. I’m a teacher and you’d be surprised how many parents think this when in fact, I’ve given detentions to a few children. Is that just the narrative you’re getting from your son and his mates?

The upshot is, at his age, his behaviour is his responsibility. He needs to focus. Soon, he’ll be at college, Uni and then work - where praise isn’t given for just completing your work. In fact, I don’t think “praise” happens at Uni at all! (I got a first and my grades were all sent via email without fanfare).

The best thing you can do for your son in the long-term is get him to take responsibility for his behaviour or ask for him to change sets. Complaining will just teach him that his behaviour is not his fault.

This is the most ridiculous teacher thread I’ve read in ages. "What's the point being good if she doesn't even notice"? Umm because it’s school and he’s there to learn not mess about. He should be ‘good’ as a basic standard and not in order to receive praise. He’s three years off uni potentially and he probably won’t get it there unless it’s he’s very exceptional.

I wouldn’t complain and just keep repeating that he should keep his head down. We’ve all had teachers that we haven’t gelled with as much, it’s just a part of life.

If he says things like "what's the point of being good if she doesn't even notice", he's most certainly a massive pita with a bad attitude. Can you imagine how many students behave perfectly, do everything that's asked, without anything in the way of praise in the majority of their lessons? Yes, they might get praise every now and again, but by your DS's expectation, they should be getting house points (or whatever) every single lesson, because they're nice, well mannered kifs. But they don't, because behaving well is basic, it's the least that should be expected. Praise is supposed to be for those who go above and beyond, not for those who manage to avoid being a pita for a lesson. You do realise there's a massive shortage of Maths teachers right, and parents and kids with this attitude are part of the problem?

Kids not kifs!

Another way to think about it is to forget whether he likes the teacher or not, and instead to focus on not disrupting the lesson for the other students who want to learn.

You really need have a word with your kid and tell him to grow up - he's 15 not 5 and shouldn't need enthusiastic applause for good behaviour. It won't happen in the workplace so he's going to have to get used to working hard without being told he's a good boy, and by 15 he really should know that surely? If I'd just landed a big contract and my appraisal didn't mention it and instead focussed on things I was doing wrong I would consider that a) normal and b) useful. If I've landed a major contract presumably it's my job so it's expected of me. Why would anyone praise me for just doing my job? Feedback things I'm not doing well on is useful as I can try to do better, feedback on things I'm already doing well is just pointless.

The level of bile directed towards a child on here is genuinely disgusting. Like no one else's child has ever been tricky for a teacher before. It doesn't make it right to use the language some of you have used on here towards him, whether you agree with the OP or not.

In terms of the original post, if you have tried having meetings etc and it hasn't worked, request a change of group. It may be that the personalities just clash for whatever reason and a switch will do everyone a world of good.

It does sound like it's coming from both him and the teacher. He's not behaving well in the class, and she's fed up of him and she might well have taken your request that she use more positive reinforcement badly.

I do think that you being a teacher is colouring your viewpoint - understandably so. If we put the emotional heat to one side for a moment, your ultimate goal is for your son to enjoy and to do well in maths, yes? So if we accept that that this combination of teacher and pupil isn't a good fit, where can we move on with this towards that goal? I think other people's suggestions that you consider if him moving classes could work is a good one, and/or some form of home learning that will inspire him and that he will enjoy - would he spend one evening a week teaching himself about a topic that interests him, and tell you what he's found after an hour or two? Could you afford a private tutor?

OP with the greatest respect 15 year old boys should not need positive praise to be able to behave.

My own son is 14, just got school report.
Not quite meeting targets in English but is in everything else. Rang school and spoke to teacher who advised DS is a capable student but can become disengaged, more interested in chatting to mates, occasionally displays a poor attidude when he can't be bothered to work.

I don't expect her to praise him when he does some work, engages with class and shuts his bloody mouth but I do expect her to challenge him when he's being a bit of a shit.

So now we are working together... Cannot imagine putting a formal complaint in because she treats him differently to others. He is a problem on occasion and they are not.

DS is aware if he behaves well and works hard she doesn't challenge him and he doesnt get singled out.
His choice only he can change it.

Same as I go to work I don't get a pat on the head for doing my job well I would however get questioned if I was under performing.

He is 15 not 5.

Back him in his request to move to a different set/teachers class for this subject.

I had a very similar experience and recognise that feeling of 'everyones on my back if I don't work hard/be good etc, but when I do no one gives a shit anyway, so why bloody bother' very well.

In hindsight, with the benefit of 20+ years adulting its easy to say 'theres other reasons to be good and work hard' but you can't make a teenager into an adult just by telling them these things.

I moved from top set to bottom set to escape awful teacher, and as a result, got a decent GCSE grade in maths that I certainly wouldn't have done had I stayed put.

My sister was so disruptive in a local quite bad state primary school that my mum was called in to say that they thought she was "retarded" ( their words! - many years ago) and needed to be moved to a special school . My mum said that she believed my sister was playing up as she was bored and actually would benefit from some more challenging work in class. Anyway school didn't agree so my parents got her tutors in Maths and English and she sat for a v good local grammar, got in, got on well with the teachers and no further behavioural problems at secondary. Fast forward 7 years and she went off to Cambridge.

There's a real diversity of ways and rates that teenage brains and emotions develop as well as in the way teens outwardly display their development, and I do feel that certain teachers tend to behave in a similar way to bad managers in that they assume all kids can be managed (and behave) in the same way.

Your Ds's disruption is as you say low level - and of course for the sake of other students in his class, does need to be managed. However it seems like there's room for a more nuanced and collaborative approach. My sister remains very pleased that my mum remained her advocate and that she ended up at a top Uni rather than being labelled and potentially "institutionalised" !

I am a teacher. You sound very entitled, as does your child. You need to start teaching them some basic social norms, stop making excuses and stop blaming the teacher for the poor conduct of your child. Take some responsibility for your parenting and sort your kid out. Teachers notice positive behaviour and praise accordingly. The onus is on you to raise a respectful and civilised human.

"what's the point being good if she doesn't even notice".
This is more a primary school attitude. By 15 he should see he’s working for his own benefit, working towards exams, deciding where he wants to go in life.
He sounds very immature, maybe a Saturday job would help? Responsibility, boundaries, working with older people might do him good.

He feels demoralised and unsupported by his teacher. He may be 15 but he is still most definitely a child and it would be unreasonable to expect him to respond to this situation like an adult. How upsetting to see your son, who is capable of doing well in maths, struggling because a teacher is unable/unwilling to adapt to him as an individual. I would be upset about this too. I would want to have a conversation with the school about how this could be addressed. His future shouldn’t be hampered because one teacher has taken a dislike to him, or does not know how to get the best out of him.

Low level disruption like you are describing OP is incredibly annoying and disruptive as it stops the flow of the lesson. It sounds like your son is one of those children who sucks up more than his fair share of the teachers time and attention . It also sounds like you think he should be given stickers if he manages to behave in line with expectations!

OP, he does sound disruptive and I suspect the teacher is the kind who sweats the small stuff. So do I tbh. I’m a teacher so I understand the pressure all teachers are under, especially when expected to get a load of 9s from a top set core subject, but I struggled with maths despite being in top sets too. There’ll be kids in that class who it doesn’t come as easily to as your son, and the teacher is likely trying her best to get the best possible grades from these kids and indeed your son. I don’t necessarily agree with those who say he doesn’t need praise as he’s fifteen and not five either (we all like a bit of praise after all) but I’d definitely have a conversation with him about him being intrinsically motivated to do as best he can in a subject he excels at with or without praise. I’d personally arrange a final meeting with the teacher, head of year and perhaps a head of department if possible so you can discuss changing classes if this is what he and you both want. A subject report card or something similar might also work so she has the opportunity to provide feedback to him at the end of each lesson, his head of year and you at home. Then you can be certain he isn’t downplaying his disruption (which is something kids just do of course). And, importantly, the teacher has an opportunity to praise him.

what's the point being good if she doesn't even notice".

Your job as a parent is to teach your child resilience. Its not the teachers job to praise your child for bring good, it should be expected that they try their best. I cant believe you want to complain 😮

Not one of the fifteen year olds I teach (or have taught) is an arrogant gobshite.
That might have something to do with them having parents that don't think being one is natural for a 15 year old though tbf.

Definitely speak to the school unfortunately many teachers don’t seem to have adequate training in behaviour management (I’m a teacher myself so not teacher bashing!) The teacher needs to appreciate what they are doing is not working for your son. Google the negative behaviour cycle (if you’re not aware of it) and use this as part of your discussion. Sounds like maybe best to ask for him to be moved to a different group for a fresh start

OP with the greatest respect 15 year old boys should not need positive praise to be able to behave.

They shouldn't, but if from his point of view he only ever receives negative feedback from her whatever he does, it's not a great motivator to behave well, either.

There is a motivation for every behaviour. He's motivated to behave as he is doing, for a reason, whether that's boredom, mischief or finding the work too hard. and he needs a bigger motivating force to convince him to behave differently, whether that's a punishment that's effective enough for him, or a reward that's rewarding enough for him. That's just how learning how you're going to behave works,.

Haven't read the full thread but I think it is important for a parent to advocate for their child so yes put it one writing so it will be addressed. The thing of note is that it is only this subject and he is otherwise a good student. Whilst it's an important lesson to learn to work with different types of people there are other ways of learning this.