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Original poster

Parent & Child -v- Disabled Parking Bays?

493 replies

Lambstails · 24/05/2023 15:31

Hello,

Firstly, I feel the need to apologise for posting on here, but I'm genuinely interested in the view of any parents or other guardians of children who use dedicated parent and child spaces. The reason for my apology being that I am not, and have never unfortunately been a parent myself - this was not a lifestyle choice.

I am however, registered disabled and in receipt of the higher mobility rate of PIP which automatically entitles me to use a blue badge. The nature of my condition means that some (very few) days I am quite capable of parking in a 'normal' bay if there is one available relatively close to where I need to be, but most days I HAVE to use a wider bay to get myself in and out of my car, together with my wheeled walker. On days where I can cope ok with just a walking stick, and where there's a regular space available close enough, I steer clear of the blue badge bays, preferring to leave them for people who have no option but to use them. I also would like to add (as it's relevant further down) that my 85 year old Mother is also registered disabled (we have the same congenital spinal condition). My Mum is also sadly now in palliative care for terminal cancer and she cannot walk more than about 10 metres, so is a wheelchair user. She is rarely well enough to leave the house, but on hers and mine 'better' days, I do try and get her out for an hour or so.

A month or so ago, I was able to take Mum out and parked at a local retail park where the ratio of blue badge spaces to parent and child spaces is about 8/15 in the P&C space's favour (I find this bewildering, to be honest). There were no BB spaces free, but plenty of P&C bays were unused. I therefore parked in one and ensured my blue badge was displayed. Fast forward to when we returned to my car, having pushed Mum around the shop for 5 minutes or so, got her out of her wheelchair, into the car and the wheelchair in the boot, I was about on my knees myself. I cannot describe how difficult this is sometimes, for both of us. Anyway, before I could get myself in the car, a furious woman came over to me and lambasted me for parking in a P&C space. She was also parked in one next to me (with her suspiciously tall teenage children in the back). I tried to explain that there were no blue badge spaces free at the time we parked but she called me all sorts of unrepeatable names and "a lazy b*tch" to boot. I pointed out that she and her 'children' looked quite capable of walking, she didn't have a pushchair or pram and that my Mum cannot walk, which she clearly could see with the difficulty getting her into the car, but she was having none of it. I decided to then ignore her and just leave, she was the sort of person there was going to be no reasoning with and being yelled and sworn out in a public car park isn't really for me.

I put this out of my mind and today went to the car park to pick up some items for Mum from Boots. Once again, there were no BB spaces free and around a dozen P&C spaces unoccupied. Today is a 'bad' day - I am in a lot of pain and walking more than a few steps at a time is difficult and I needed my walker. So I reluctantly parked in a P&C space, knowing that I would be little more than 5 minutes to pick up some medication. And yes, once again when I returned to my car, there was a young Mum waiting for me by her car (parked next to me). And yes, once again I received a berating. This lady was a different model to the previous angry woman - she politely asked me if I was aware I had parked in a P&C space - I was completely honest and said yes, hence why I had displayed my blue badge. Maybe I should have lied and pleaded ignorance, as at this point she changed - having ascertained I had knowingly parked here, she promptly called me selfish and said she was off to find a security officer to report me and my selfishness. The source of her fury seemed to be that she said she wouldn't dream of parking in a BB bay if all the P&C spaces were full. I pointed out that she has a choice whether to walk a little further or not, I usually don't. I suggested she maybe should have considered this before deciding whether to have children, if it was to become so important to her, she said it's nothing to do with not wanting to walk, and everything to do with the safety of parents and their children, apparently it isn't safe for a Mother to be pushing a young baby in a pram around a busy car park. The way my legs operate most days, I wouldn't be particularly safe walking on bubble wrap!

I am more distressed, rattled and upset about these two incidents than I probably should be. With my own middle age, the impending mortality of both my parents, together with both my nieces recently having had their first babies, perhaps my own child-free status is playing on my mind at the moment, although I don't think I am the 'woe is me' type. I am not an unhappy, bitter old bag (honestly!) - I've got a fantastic husband, and a great job; I've had a lot in my life to be so very thankful for. Children of our own would have been the icing on the cake, but it's never been the be-all and end-all. On both occasions, whilst being sweetly polite to these women, more than anything I wanted to scream at them to be damn thankful for what they've got and just go and enjoy it. Having a blue badge is not a choice for me, to have had children would have been - that's how I see the difference.

I really would like to get some opinions on this emotive subject, more to try and understand the perspective of these two women. I have no idea if P&C spaces are 'legal' spaces as are BB bays, but even if they are, if there are dozens of them available and not being used, what is the real harm of a BB holder using one? I'm not convinced that P&C spaces aren't actually a marketing ploy conjured up by the retailers, as typically these spaces now tend to be nearer shops' entrances than actual BB ones!

I'm interested in all opinions, particularly those that can put a different spin on this and make me see it from the point of view of these two women. One of my 'new Mum' nieces has joined in the attack on me - she too believes that I have acted selfishly and reiterated how difficult it is to get baby/child seats out of a car without sufficient space around them. I do understand that. But thinking about it, if the situation was reversed and BB spaces were available where P&C ones weren't, I doubt very much I would begrudge a parent or guardian parking in one if it was obvious they needed to!

(I've just realised how long this post is, apologies if you made it this far down and are still with me 😂)

Thanks,

Beatrix x

OP posts:
GlitteryGreen · 24/05/2023 18:31

I have a young baby and would be fine with this tbh! You need the extra space.

What annoys me more is people with empty car seats using the spaces through laziness and then I can't get one, when I genuinely need the wider space to be able to open the door far enough to get my baby (in car seat) out.

HideTheCroissants · 24/05/2023 18:33

You are not in the wrong OP. However, Parent & child spaces ARE for safety - they allow the car door to be opened sufficiently for a child to be strapped into a car seat / for a carried car seat to be fixed into the car, or for the pushchair to be safely beside the car rather than behind / in front of the space where it could be hit. In an ideal world parking spaces would always be big enough for a car door to be fully opened …. but they aren’t.

Personally I have ALWAYS said that parent & child spaces should be further away from the store to stop them being abused and allowing for the spaces nearest the store to be blue badge spaces only (yes - even when my DCs were small enough for me to need the spaces). In both your examples OP I believe you were totally in the right.

the ratio of blue badge spaces to parent and child spaces is about 8/15 in the P&C space's favour (I find this bewildering, to be honest).

This shouldn’t be bewildering though… quite simply there are more people with young children than there are people with blue badges…….

Confuzzlediddled · 24/05/2023 18:34

When I had my oldest in 1994 there were no p&c spaces, same with buses we had to just manage.
By the time I had my twins in 2003 there were p&c spaces (or mother and baby as they were called then!), which did help with getting them in and out the car.
I'm now a wheelchair user and not being able to get parked in a storage with room to push my doors fully doesn't just make my life a bit more awkward, it means I can't go to wherever im planning to go to, strangely more of the bb spaces fill up when it's raining 🙄.

I can quite believe the OP has been challenged for parking in a p&c space as I have been challenged for parking in the "old people's spaces" (with my valid blue badge)

OP try not to let selfish entitled people upset you, if there are no BB spaces you are perfectly entitled to park in the P&C spaces.

Notamum12345577 · 24/05/2023 18:34

Lambstails · 24/05/2023 15:31

Hello,

Firstly, I feel the need to apologise for posting on here, but I'm genuinely interested in the view of any parents or other guardians of children who use dedicated parent and child spaces. The reason for my apology being that I am not, and have never unfortunately been a parent myself - this was not a lifestyle choice.

I am however, registered disabled and in receipt of the higher mobility rate of PIP which automatically entitles me to use a blue badge. The nature of my condition means that some (very few) days I am quite capable of parking in a 'normal' bay if there is one available relatively close to where I need to be, but most days I HAVE to use a wider bay to get myself in and out of my car, together with my wheeled walker. On days where I can cope ok with just a walking stick, and where there's a regular space available close enough, I steer clear of the blue badge bays, preferring to leave them for people who have no option but to use them. I also would like to add (as it's relevant further down) that my 85 year old Mother is also registered disabled (we have the same congenital spinal condition). My Mum is also sadly now in palliative care for terminal cancer and she cannot walk more than about 10 metres, so is a wheelchair user. She is rarely well enough to leave the house, but on hers and mine 'better' days, I do try and get her out for an hour or so.

A month or so ago, I was able to take Mum out and parked at a local retail park where the ratio of blue badge spaces to parent and child spaces is about 8/15 in the P&C space's favour (I find this bewildering, to be honest). There were no BB spaces free, but plenty of P&C bays were unused. I therefore parked in one and ensured my blue badge was displayed. Fast forward to when we returned to my car, having pushed Mum around the shop for 5 minutes or so, got her out of her wheelchair, into the car and the wheelchair in the boot, I was about on my knees myself. I cannot describe how difficult this is sometimes, for both of us. Anyway, before I could get myself in the car, a furious woman came over to me and lambasted me for parking in a P&C space. She was also parked in one next to me (with her suspiciously tall teenage children in the back). I tried to explain that there were no blue badge spaces free at the time we parked but she called me all sorts of unrepeatable names and "a lazy b*tch" to boot. I pointed out that she and her 'children' looked quite capable of walking, she didn't have a pushchair or pram and that my Mum cannot walk, which she clearly could see with the difficulty getting her into the car, but she was having none of it. I decided to then ignore her and just leave, she was the sort of person there was going to be no reasoning with and being yelled and sworn out in a public car park isn't really for me.

I put this out of my mind and today went to the car park to pick up some items for Mum from Boots. Once again, there were no BB spaces free and around a dozen P&C spaces unoccupied. Today is a 'bad' day - I am in a lot of pain and walking more than a few steps at a time is difficult and I needed my walker. So I reluctantly parked in a P&C space, knowing that I would be little more than 5 minutes to pick up some medication. And yes, once again when I returned to my car, there was a young Mum waiting for me by her car (parked next to me). And yes, once again I received a berating. This lady was a different model to the previous angry woman - she politely asked me if I was aware I had parked in a P&C space - I was completely honest and said yes, hence why I had displayed my blue badge. Maybe I should have lied and pleaded ignorance, as at this point she changed - having ascertained I had knowingly parked here, she promptly called me selfish and said she was off to find a security officer to report me and my selfishness. The source of her fury seemed to be that she said she wouldn't dream of parking in a BB bay if all the P&C spaces were full. I pointed out that she has a choice whether to walk a little further or not, I usually don't. I suggested she maybe should have considered this before deciding whether to have children, if it was to become so important to her, she said it's nothing to do with not wanting to walk, and everything to do with the safety of parents and their children, apparently it isn't safe for a Mother to be pushing a young baby in a pram around a busy car park. The way my legs operate most days, I wouldn't be particularly safe walking on bubble wrap!

I am more distressed, rattled and upset about these two incidents than I probably should be. With my own middle age, the impending mortality of both my parents, together with both my nieces recently having had their first babies, perhaps my own child-free status is playing on my mind at the moment, although I don't think I am the 'woe is me' type. I am not an unhappy, bitter old bag (honestly!) - I've got a fantastic husband, and a great job; I've had a lot in my life to be so very thankful for. Children of our own would have been the icing on the cake, but it's never been the be-all and end-all. On both occasions, whilst being sweetly polite to these women, more than anything I wanted to scream at them to be damn thankful for what they've got and just go and enjoy it. Having a blue badge is not a choice for me, to have had children would have been - that's how I see the difference.

I really would like to get some opinions on this emotive subject, more to try and understand the perspective of these two women. I have no idea if P&C spaces are 'legal' spaces as are BB bays, but even if they are, if there are dozens of them available and not being used, what is the real harm of a BB holder using one? I'm not convinced that P&C spaces aren't actually a marketing ploy conjured up by the retailers, as typically these spaces now tend to be nearer shops' entrances than actual BB ones!

I'm interested in all opinions, particularly those that can put a different spin on this and make me see it from the point of view of these two women. One of my 'new Mum' nieces has joined in the attack on me - she too believes that I have acted selfishly and reiterated how difficult it is to get baby/child seats out of a car without sufficient space around them. I do understand that. But thinking about it, if the situation was reversed and BB spaces were available where P&C ones weren't, I doubt very much I would begrudge a parent or guardian parking in one if it was obvious they needed to!

(I've just realised how long this post is, apologies if you made it this far down and are still with me 😂)

Thanks,

Beatrix x

if someone parked in a P&C space when there was blue badge available, that would be out of order. But as you didn’t do that, you are not out of order at all. P&C spaces are just a courtesy anyway, blue badge spaces are a legal requirement if the car park is big enough. As you can legally park on double yellow lines for up to 3 hours I think a parent and child space is ok if need be…….

Clymene · 24/05/2023 18:35

@Notamum12345577

if someone parked in a P&C space when there was blue badge available, that would be out of order.

Nope.

ApplesandOrangesandPears · 24/05/2023 18:36

TrashyPanda · 24/05/2023 18:21

the rules mean kids have to be in them until they're well into school age

but they will be climbing in and out of the seats by themselves once they are at school, so no need for a P&C space by then.

My 3 year old (almost 4) can't climb into her car seat by herself yet, she's still too small, she'll be at school this year so we still a larger space to get her in and out. My eldest also has ADHD and is liable to get out without looking and is a bit of a danger, we use child lock admittedly but parent and child spaces are helpful to keep her on the path to the shop instead of wandering across a car park.

Famzonhol · 24/05/2023 18:36

I have DC and no way would I prioritise them over a person who clearly has mobility issues. What on earth is wrong with people?

Sirzy · 24/05/2023 18:38

A newly built shopping area here has P and C spaces right outside the shop.

the disabled spaces are across the road.

too right if I am with DS who is a blue badge holder I will park in the P and C spaces because they are the ones which allow safest passage for him to the shop. The idea of the badge

Justalittlebitduckling · 24/05/2023 18:43

Brendabigbaps · 24/05/2023 15:40

i always thought it was common knowledge that blue badge wins over p&c.

Yes- same as wheelchair trumps buggy on a bus.

Ellatella · 24/05/2023 18:45

I think if there are no disabled bays available then it is ok for you to use the p&c bays. The 2 women having a go when they had a space anyway just sound unpleasant and confrontational. However saying it is a lifestyle choice to have children is just ridiculous and rude. Women with children struggle enough without such hostility being shown to them. It is very difficult to get a young baby/ child out of a car in a normal space, also for a heavily pregnant women to get in and out of the car if another car is parked too close.
Also my dad is disabled and has a blue badge, his disability is lung disease caused by decades of heavy smoking so also technically a lifestyle choice, but I wouldnt dream of refusing someone help because their predicament was caused by 'lifestyle choice'. Just show a bit of kindness and understanding to each other.

Mojoj · 24/05/2023 18:45

It sounds like you were just very unfortunate to have encountered two idiots. Of course your needs as a disabled person trumps those of a parent with a child in tow. It's a no brainer. I wouldn't give it anymore headspace.

Catchasingmewithspiders · 24/05/2023 18:52

ForeverFailing · 24/05/2023 17:46

I think you are unreasonable taking a P&C space but only because in my area the P&C parking are like gold dust.
There is nothing worse than someone taking one up when the don’t have a child. They are there for a reason, to enable parents to manoeuvre prams/trolleys with a small baby/child.
Use the blue badge section, if there are no spaces then either wait or find a normal space.

I'm pretty sure trying to maneuver your disabled mum in and out of a wheelchair whilst being disabled and in pain yourself is actually worse than maneuvering a pram with a small child

ChocolateChipMuffin2016 · 24/05/2023 18:56

I have 2 kids - 1 who is disabled and receipt of dla mobility allowance, and yes it can be a pain using a normal space especially when they’re tiny. But even I think your needs would outweigh mine and if you had a BB parked next to me I would think you were totally in the right! TBH I think the P&C spaces should be at the back of the store and keep the disabled at the front and plenty of them as it’s the entitled arseholes who have no kids or disability who park in them that piss me off (usually men!).

MrFlobby · 24/05/2023 18:59

YANBU. I cannot lie it does boil my piss when I see a perfectly fit abled person park in the last p&c bay whilst I struggle to get my 3 children under 5 out of the narrow spaces. That is selfish. However having a disabled badge trumps that every time. Although I have found the opposite to your problem, that there always seems to be an abundance of empty disabled bays and no p&c spaces (because of selfish fuck wits parking in them because they know they can.) However I am also aware I am quite capable of getting my dc out in a normal space, & a disabled person does not have that luxury. They’re dicks to confront you OP. Don’t let it get to you, & I’m sorry you weren’t able to have children that is very difficult 💐

JeandeServiette · 24/05/2023 19:00

They were both ridiculously unreasonable. Please don't think they have any kind of right on their side.

What did her security guard say when he arrived?

Percypiglover · 24/05/2023 19:00

So I will admit I get incredibly frustrated by ppl using parent and child spacing when they shouldn't but this does not extend to those in your situation. My mum used to take my Nan out into her 90's and some places she went the parent and child spaces were nearer than the bb space ( which alone is bewildering) so she used the parent and child spaces. I have no issue with those that use them in those circumstances it's those that don't have bb but think they can park in parent and child spaces because they want to nearer/ not have anyone too close to their car/ or are just plain selfish the worst being those that have children that can get themselves in and out and do their own seat belts so shouldn't be using them.

I found it shocking somewhere has so few bb spaces and this needs to be rectified but that doesn't excuse those rude ppl confronting you. Even when I think ppl are really unjustified parking in parent and child spaces still would never make a comment.

ScatsThat · 24/05/2023 19:04

I have 2 children and think disabilities trump children every time, but have encountered people who feel the opposite way. I was at a motorway service station once with a disabled grandparent and a man saw us heading towards the disabled toilet and rushed his daughter past us to go in there first. My grandad had a walker and had difficulty standing for more than 5 minutes and was physically shaking with the effort of keeping upright by the time they came out of the loo. The man didn't want to take his daughter into the men's toilets so felt entitled to use the disabled toilet and didn't see why his daughter should have to wait for my grandad (an actual disabled person) to go first. This was about 10 years ago and it still makes me feel cross to think about it 😡

Rainyrunway · 24/05/2023 19:04

Completely unrelated but a carpark near me has a load of BB spaces painted red (so obvious) and a whole bunch more not painted red with a really faded wheelchair symbol on them. It really pisses me off because it's like a trap! Like they want you to think it's safe because it's not red, just so they can give you a bloody ticket. Bastards

Swingbop · 24/05/2023 19:04

You have done absolutely nothing wrong OP. Blue badge trumps all other spaces. P&C are courtesy spaces anyway, no one is ‘entitled’ to use them - they have no legal standing.

discan · 24/05/2023 19:06

Just here to mention high rate (mobility) pip isn't an automatic entitlement for a BB. It's points dependant.

As you were... the

Clymene · 24/05/2023 19:06

Ellatella · 24/05/2023 18:45

I think if there are no disabled bays available then it is ok for you to use the p&c bays. The 2 women having a go when they had a space anyway just sound unpleasant and confrontational. However saying it is a lifestyle choice to have children is just ridiculous and rude. Women with children struggle enough without such hostility being shown to them. It is very difficult to get a young baby/ child out of a car in a normal space, also for a heavily pregnant women to get in and out of the car if another car is parked too close.
Also my dad is disabled and has a blue badge, his disability is lung disease caused by decades of heavy smoking so also technically a lifestyle choice, but I wouldnt dream of refusing someone help because their predicament was caused by 'lifestyle choice'. Just show a bit of kindness and understanding to each other.

It is a lifestyle choice.

And telling a woman who is infertile and disabled that it's unacceptable for her to say that is what's rude.

Blue badge holders can park anywhere they like.

Gillbil · 24/05/2023 19:09

What absolute kn#bs! You were not in the wrong they were just bloody weird.
I'm sorry you went through that, and don't listen to them, disabled bays are required by law p&c bays are not.

Next time park there but don't put ur bb on display. They waited around for you to have a go at you- what ever trauma they're dealing with in their lives has nothing to do with you

mommybear1 · 24/05/2023 19:09

My understanding is that blue badge users can park anyway so that would include p&c spaces. Equally p&c spaces are a courtesy not a legal right so anyone can park in them really as they can't be enforced. I'm currently applying for a blue badge for my Dad and have had to use p&c spaces as we don't have the badge yet but I have to get his wheelchair out and manage him out of the car he can currently only manage a few steps due to three fractured vertebrae and a wedge compression fracture. I've had some stroppy comments but no confrontation as yet. You did nothing at all wrong OP.

Redkatagain · 24/05/2023 19:10

The phrase you were looking for , in both of the cases was either "piss off" or "mind your own business"

I would have used the former

Alexandra1991 · 24/05/2023 19:11

So I've always thought that the 'point' of P&C spaces is the extra space making it easier to load and unload prams, and putting babies and children into carseats. They just always happen to be next to the blue badge spaces. I've often thought I would prefer them to be further away to discourage people who don't need them from using them. However, given that they are normally closest to the shops I would never begrudge a blue badge holder parking in one and certainly never berate them!