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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Parent & Child -v- Disabled Parking Bays?

493 replies

Lambstails · 24/05/2023 15:31

Hello,

Firstly, I feel the need to apologise for posting on here, but I'm genuinely interested in the view of any parents or other guardians of children who use dedicated parent and child spaces. The reason for my apology being that I am not, and have never unfortunately been a parent myself - this was not a lifestyle choice.

I am however, registered disabled and in receipt of the higher mobility rate of PIP which automatically entitles me to use a blue badge. The nature of my condition means that some (very few) days I am quite capable of parking in a 'normal' bay if there is one available relatively close to where I need to be, but most days I HAVE to use a wider bay to get myself in and out of my car, together with my wheeled walker. On days where I can cope ok with just a walking stick, and where there's a regular space available close enough, I steer clear of the blue badge bays, preferring to leave them for people who have no option but to use them. I also would like to add (as it's relevant further down) that my 85 year old Mother is also registered disabled (we have the same congenital spinal condition). My Mum is also sadly now in palliative care for terminal cancer and she cannot walk more than about 10 metres, so is a wheelchair user. She is rarely well enough to leave the house, but on hers and mine 'better' days, I do try and get her out for an hour or so.

A month or so ago, I was able to take Mum out and parked at a local retail park where the ratio of blue badge spaces to parent and child spaces is about 8/15 in the P&C space's favour (I find this bewildering, to be honest). There were no BB spaces free, but plenty of P&C bays were unused. I therefore parked in one and ensured my blue badge was displayed. Fast forward to when we returned to my car, having pushed Mum around the shop for 5 minutes or so, got her out of her wheelchair, into the car and the wheelchair in the boot, I was about on my knees myself. I cannot describe how difficult this is sometimes, for both of us. Anyway, before I could get myself in the car, a furious woman came over to me and lambasted me for parking in a P&C space. She was also parked in one next to me (with her suspiciously tall teenage children in the back). I tried to explain that there were no blue badge spaces free at the time we parked but she called me all sorts of unrepeatable names and "a lazy b*tch" to boot. I pointed out that she and her 'children' looked quite capable of walking, she didn't have a pushchair or pram and that my Mum cannot walk, which she clearly could see with the difficulty getting her into the car, but she was having none of it. I decided to then ignore her and just leave, she was the sort of person there was going to be no reasoning with and being yelled and sworn out in a public car park isn't really for me.

I put this out of my mind and today went to the car park to pick up some items for Mum from Boots. Once again, there were no BB spaces free and around a dozen P&C spaces unoccupied. Today is a 'bad' day - I am in a lot of pain and walking more than a few steps at a time is difficult and I needed my walker. So I reluctantly parked in a P&C space, knowing that I would be little more than 5 minutes to pick up some medication. And yes, once again when I returned to my car, there was a young Mum waiting for me by her car (parked next to me). And yes, once again I received a berating. This lady was a different model to the previous angry woman - she politely asked me if I was aware I had parked in a P&C space - I was completely honest and said yes, hence why I had displayed my blue badge. Maybe I should have lied and pleaded ignorance, as at this point she changed - having ascertained I had knowingly parked here, she promptly called me selfish and said she was off to find a security officer to report me and my selfishness. The source of her fury seemed to be that she said she wouldn't dream of parking in a BB bay if all the P&C spaces were full. I pointed out that she has a choice whether to walk a little further or not, I usually don't. I suggested she maybe should have considered this before deciding whether to have children, if it was to become so important to her, she said it's nothing to do with not wanting to walk, and everything to do with the safety of parents and their children, apparently it isn't safe for a Mother to be pushing a young baby in a pram around a busy car park. The way my legs operate most days, I wouldn't be particularly safe walking on bubble wrap!

I am more distressed, rattled and upset about these two incidents than I probably should be. With my own middle age, the impending mortality of both my parents, together with both my nieces recently having had their first babies, perhaps my own child-free status is playing on my mind at the moment, although I don't think I am the 'woe is me' type. I am not an unhappy, bitter old bag (honestly!) - I've got a fantastic husband, and a great job; I've had a lot in my life to be so very thankful for. Children of our own would have been the icing on the cake, but it's never been the be-all and end-all. On both occasions, whilst being sweetly polite to these women, more than anything I wanted to scream at them to be damn thankful for what they've got and just go and enjoy it. Having a blue badge is not a choice for me, to have had children would have been - that's how I see the difference.

I really would like to get some opinions on this emotive subject, more to try and understand the perspective of these two women. I have no idea if P&C spaces are 'legal' spaces as are BB bays, but even if they are, if there are dozens of them available and not being used, what is the real harm of a BB holder using one? I'm not convinced that P&C spaces aren't actually a marketing ploy conjured up by the retailers, as typically these spaces now tend to be nearer shops' entrances than actual BB ones!

I'm interested in all opinions, particularly those that can put a different spin on this and make me see it from the point of view of these two women. One of my 'new Mum' nieces has joined in the attack on me - she too believes that I have acted selfishly and reiterated how difficult it is to get baby/child seats out of a car without sufficient space around them. I do understand that. But thinking about it, if the situation was reversed and BB spaces were available where P&C ones weren't, I doubt very much I would begrudge a parent or guardian parking in one if it was obvious they needed to!

(I've just realised how long this post is, apologies if you made it this far down and are still with me 😂)

Thanks,

Beatrix x

OP posts:
NorthStarRising · 24/05/2023 18:06

P&C parking should be at the back of the car park, plus trolley park with a clearly marked path for parents to manage their children/trolley/car seats safely to the shop during their little walk.
Blue Badge spaces should be as close as possible to the store and checked regularly by staff.
The fact I managed without P&C priority with my children is irrelevant, I’m pleased that many things are so much easier for my children and grandchildren. But sometimes parents are entitled, rude, whiney arses who feel that having acquired a child, their wants trump everyone else’s needs.
This is one of those cases.

GeekyThings · 24/05/2023 18:08

DappledThings · 24/05/2023 18:03

There wasn't this trend for getting the while car seat out so much I think. When people say they need loads of extra space it's usually because they are insisting on using the car seat as a buggy.

Actually that's not quite accurate, although car seats have played a role in it. The seats are bigger and harder to get kids in and out of than when my sisters had theirs. My sister cleared out her garage and the seat was thin with lower sides. And you didn't have to use them as long either, not the rules mean kids have to be in them until they're well into school age.

And when I was a kid they didn't exist, so no issues getting in and out of a car at all!

identifyingasmrblobbytoday · 24/05/2023 18:08

ForeverFailing · 24/05/2023 17:46

I think you are unreasonable taking a P&C space but only because in my area the P&C parking are like gold dust.
There is nothing worse than someone taking one up when the don’t have a child. They are there for a reason, to enable parents to manoeuvre prams/trolleys with a small baby/child.
Use the blue badge section, if there are no spaces then either wait or find a normal space.

🧐

CombatBarbie · 24/05/2023 18:08

Same rules as puix transport, disability trumps children every day.

Floralys2 · 24/05/2023 18:09

TLDR

Sissynova · 24/05/2023 18:12

Iwantmyoldnameback · 24/05/2023 17:57

Thank you. So comparatively recent then. How did we manage?

Cars were narrower and lower, comparatively cars are much harder for younger children to climb into themselves now, and car seat regulations were totally different. 3 year olds now are still in massive 5 point harness seats, in the 90s they would have just been sat in the back normally or maybe a small booster seat. The law pre 2006 was just that a 3 year old should use a booster seat ‘if available’.

Twillow · 24/05/2023 18:13

They were extremely rude. I'm sorry that happened to you.
I watched a man park in the very nearest disabled space to the store at Lidl yesterday and then proceed to get out at a healthy pace along with his teenage son and no blue badge on the car (I was at the checkout so it was clear to see). I was disgusted but even so, it wouldn't have crossed my mind to go and berate him.
I bet a significant proportion of the disabled spaces that are full are used without good reason.

DappledThings · 24/05/2023 18:13

Sissynova · 24/05/2023 18:12

Cars were narrower and lower, comparatively cars are much harder for younger children to climb into themselves now, and car seat regulations were totally different. 3 year olds now are still in massive 5 point harness seats, in the 90s they would have just been sat in the back normally or maybe a small booster seat. The law pre 2006 was just that a 3 year old should use a booster seat ‘if available’.

But a 3 year old can climb through a door opened as narrowly as it was regardless of the size of the car seat. And the straps can be done up from inside. It's easier doing it with the door wide open but not essential.

Badbudgeter · 24/05/2023 18:16

I don’t use them anymore but they were super helpful when the twins were small and trying to put them in car seats on either side of the car.

I work for the local council and the traffic wardens say if you have a disabled badge then you can park where you like for as long as you like. So whatever works best for you.

The only thing I would disagree with you is parents should absolutely not be using bb spaces if the p&c ones are full.

NorthStarRising · 24/05/2023 18:16

Changing all the labels everywhere to P&C and BB holders, in addition to having BB only spaces is a great idea, as Bellabon said.
Mummies may spontaneously combust, but to have a disability entitled to a BB is much more challenging than having children to cope with for a limited period of time.

ThePreacherLikesTheCold · 24/05/2023 18:17

I see people using PC spaces without children (or a BB) everytime I'm in a carpark and I've never seen any of them ambushed the way you were. I think you've been very unlucky to have encountered these morons. Sorry Op. You are of course completely in the right.

Sissynova · 24/05/2023 18:18

DappledThings · 24/05/2023 18:13

But a 3 year old can climb through a door opened as narrowly as it was regardless of the size of the car seat. And the straps can be done up from inside. It's easier doing it with the door wide open but not essential.

I’ve an almost 3 year old and she definitely can’t climb into her car seat on her own.
If she climbs into the footwell it’s actually less helpful as it’s right at the hinge of the door which obviously just means you have even less room to get in and pick them up and lift them into the car seat.

OldTinHat · 24/05/2023 18:18

As a BB holder myself, this makes me see red. I have an allocated disabled bay outside my house, but everyone parks in it without a BB. It's on street parking only My neighbour two doors down has three cars and rushes to park a car in my space as soon as I leave citing she has a baby and a toddler and has to park as close as possible to her house.

I've had many a conversation with traffic wardens - apparently, if the space is edged in white paint then it's fair game for anyone. If it's marked in yellow then anyone parking without a BB or correct permit can be fined. I would use that as an argument if you're confronted again. Yes, works both ways, but wave your BB and just ignore and don't engage. You have more of a need.

IClaudine · 24/05/2023 18:19

ForeverFailing · 24/05/2023 17:46

I think you are unreasonable taking a P&C space but only because in my area the P&C parking are like gold dust.
There is nothing worse than someone taking one up when the don’t have a child. They are there for a reason, to enable parents to manoeuvre prams/trolleys with a small baby/child.
Use the blue badge section, if there are no spaces then either wait or find a normal space.

It is not possible to get in and out of a wheelchair using a normal space. So, if all the BB spaces are taken I will use a parent and child space if DH (wheelchair user) is with me and getting out of the car.

The physical environment is so unfriendly to disabled people, there is no shame in using what is available if BB spaces are full.

OP, you did nothing wrong at all.

TheFairyCaravan · 24/05/2023 18:19

I’ve got a BB and park where it suits me, not where it suits anyone else. I used to be polite to people who challenged me but I can’t be bothered anymore so they just get told to piss off.

MaidOfSteel · 24/05/2023 18:20

P & C bays are a courtesy. Disabled bays are a legal requirement. These 2 selfish women were absolutely in the wrong. A blue badge holder can park anywhere they like, so long as they aren't causing an obstruction. That includes double yellow lines.

They can whistle for their P & C spots. Infuriatingly, P & C bays are often closer to the shop entrance than disabled bays. This whole subject makes me so bloody angry. If anyone has a go at me nowadays, they get a mouthful back. How bloody dare those women insult you and shout at you.

IClaudine · 24/05/2023 18:21

My neighbour two doors down has three cars and rushes to park a car in my space as soon as I leave citing she has a baby and a toddler and has to park as close as possible to her house

God, that is disgusting behaviour.

vejazzlement · 24/05/2023 18:21

I'm sorry, OP. You have had the misfortune to come across some truly horrible people. You are not even a tiny bit in the wrong here. Flowers

TrashyPanda · 24/05/2023 18:21

the rules mean kids have to be in them until they're well into school age

but they will be climbing in and out of the seats by themselves once they are at school, so no need for a P&C space by then.

ilovesooty · 24/05/2023 18:21

Floralys2 · 24/05/2023 18:09

TLDR

I'm sure your input is really appreciated.

@ForeverFailing what a disgraceful ableist comment.

thekindlyone · 24/05/2023 18:23

ForeverFailing · 24/05/2023 17:46

I think you are unreasonable taking a P&C space but only because in my area the P&C parking are like gold dust.
There is nothing worse than someone taking one up when the don’t have a child. They are there for a reason, to enable parents to manoeuvre prams/trolleys with a small baby/child.
Use the blue badge section, if there are no spaces then either wait or find a normal space.

Let me guess, you also think wheelchair users should have to wait for the next bus if there's a buggy in the wheelchair space?

Appleass · 24/05/2023 18:28

You carry on as you are doing, I am sorry but you have unfortunately come across 2 insensitive ignorant women. Stand up for yourself and get out your phone and record or pretend to and tell them you are adding them to social media !

Matildalamp · 24/05/2023 18:29

You need to get your new Mum niece to read this thread, so she sees how wrong she is!

Rainyrunway · 24/05/2023 18:30

Obviously those people were dicks. Some people just want a fight though. Probably picking on you because they thought you were an easy target. Sorry.
If it helps ive had the other way round. I was with DS when he was about 3. He needed the toilet. So we went into the ladies, he used the toilet went out to wash hands and the sinks were too high. I couldn't lift him high enough because of a back injury, so we waited outside the accessible toilet for it to become free. The plan was to nip in, wash his hands quickly in the much lower sink, with the door open so we could see if anyone came along and needed it urgently. While we were waiting someone else came along who needed to use the accessible toilet because of a disability, we stepped aside to let him go first and he STILL had a go at me for teaching my son to take the mick by using the accessible toilets when he didn't need them 🙄

poetryandwine · 24/05/2023 18:30

@ForeverFailing The requirements for a BB are very stringent. BB holders have a much harder time doing normal things than parents with children. At least one supermarket, Sainsburys, and some local councils recognise this and explicitly welcome BB holders into P&C spaces when no BB spaces are available.

Some disabled people refer to those of us who are luckier in this regard as the ‘temporarily able-bodied’. Somehow I have the feeling that if the boot were on the other foot you and all those voting YABU would be changing your tunes.

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