Parent & Child -v- Disabled Parking Bays?

[Lambstails]

Hello,

Firstly, I feel the need to apologise for posting on here, but I'm genuinely interested in the view of any parents or other guardians of children who use dedicated parent and child spaces. The reason for my apology being that I am not, and have never unfortunately been a parent myself - this was not a lifestyle choice.

I am however, registered disabled and in receipt of the higher mobility rate of PIP which automatically entitles me to use a blue badge. The nature of my condition means that some (very few) days I am quite capable of parking in a 'normal' bay if there is one available relatively close to where I need to be, but most days I HAVE to use a wider bay to get myself in and out of my car, together with my wheeled walker. On days where I can cope ok with just a walking stick, and where there's a regular space available close enough, I steer clear of the blue badge bays, preferring to leave them for people who have no option but to use them. I also would like to add (as it's relevant further down) that my 85 year old Mother is also registered disabled (we have the same congenital spinal condition). My Mum is also sadly now in palliative care for terminal cancer and she cannot walk more than about 10 metres, so is a wheelchair user. She is rarely well enough to leave the house, but on hers and mine 'better' days, I do try and get her out for an hour or so.

A month or so ago, I was able to take Mum out and parked at a local retail park where the ratio of blue badge spaces to parent and child spaces is about 8/15 in the P&C space's favour (I find this bewildering, to be honest). There were no BB spaces free, but plenty of P&C bays were unused. I therefore parked in one and ensured my blue badge was displayed. Fast forward to when we returned to my car, having pushed Mum around the shop for 5 minutes or so, got her out of her wheelchair, into the car and the wheelchair in the boot, I was about on my knees myself. I cannot describe how difficult this is sometimes, for both of us. Anyway, before I could get myself in the car, a furious woman came over to me and lambasted me for parking in a P&C space. She was also parked in one next to me (with her suspiciously tall teenage children in the back). I tried to explain that there were no blue badge spaces free at the time we parked but she called me all sorts of unrepeatable names and "a lazy b*tch" to boot. I pointed out that she and her 'children' looked quite capable of walking, she didn't have a pushchair or pram and that my Mum cannot walk, which she clearly could see with the difficulty getting her into the car, but she was having none of it. I decided to then ignore her and just leave, she was the sort of person there was going to be no reasoning with and being yelled and sworn out in a public car park isn't really for me.

I put this out of my mind and today went to the car park to pick up some items for Mum from Boots. Once again, there were no BB spaces free and around a dozen P&C spaces unoccupied. Today is a 'bad' day - I am in a lot of pain and walking more than a few steps at a time is difficult and I needed my walker. So I reluctantly parked in a P&C space, knowing that I would be little more than 5 minutes to pick up some medication. And yes, once again when I returned to my car, there was a young Mum waiting for me by her car (parked next to me). And yes, once again I received a berating. This lady was a different model to the previous angry woman - she politely asked me if I was aware I had parked in a P&C space - I was completely honest and said yes, hence why I had displayed my blue badge. Maybe I should have lied and pleaded ignorance, as at this point she changed - having ascertained I had knowingly parked here, she promptly called me selfish and said she was off to find a security officer to report me and my selfishness. The source of her fury seemed to be that she said she wouldn't dream of parking in a BB bay if all the P&C spaces were full. I pointed out that she has a choice whether to walk a little further or not, I usually don't. I suggested she maybe should have considered this before deciding whether to have children, if it was to become so important to her, she said it's nothing to do with not wanting to walk, and everything to do with the safety of parents and their children, apparently it isn't safe for a Mother to be pushing a young baby in a pram around a busy car park. The way my legs operate most days, I wouldn't be particularly safe walking on bubble wrap!

I am more distressed, rattled and upset about these two incidents than I probably should be. With my own middle age, the impending mortality of both my parents, together with both my nieces recently having had their first babies, perhaps my own child-free status is playing on my mind at the moment, although I don't think I am the 'woe is me' type. I am not an unhappy, bitter old bag (honestly!) - I've got a fantastic husband, and a great job; I've had a lot in my life to be so very thankful for. Children of our own would have been the icing on the cake, but it's never been the be-all and end-all. On both occasions, whilst being sweetly polite to these women, more than anything I wanted to scream at them to be damn thankful for what they've got and just go and enjoy it. Having a blue badge is not a choice for me, to have had children would have been - that's how I see the difference.

I really would like to get some opinions on this emotive subject, more to try and understand the perspective of these two women. I have no idea if P&C spaces are 'legal' spaces as are BB bays, but even if they are, if there are dozens of them available and not being used, what is the real harm of a BB holder using one? I'm not convinced that P&C spaces aren't actually a marketing ploy conjured up by the retailers, as typically these spaces now tend to be nearer shops' entrances than actual BB ones!

I'm interested in all opinions, particularly those that can put a different spin on this and make me see it from the point of view of these two women. One of my 'new Mum' nieces has joined in the attack on me - she too believes that I have acted selfishly and reiterated how difficult it is to get baby/child seats out of a car without sufficient space around them. I do understand that. But thinking about it, if the situation was reversed and BB spaces were available where P&C ones weren't, I doubt very much I would begrudge a parent or guardian parking in one if it was obvious they needed to!

(I've just realised how long this post is, apologies if you made it this far down and are still with me 😂)

Thanks,

Beatrix x

I don't get your point. Of course it's hugely significant, life-changing, hard and wonderful and everything else. Still a choice. It being a choice makes it no less profound.

Unless you have a blue badge it is never right to park in a disabled bay.

they have very clear criteria for there use.

Of course you are right, a blue badge holder can park anywhere provided they aren't causing an obstruction or danger.

Your mistake is perhaps engaging with these people, just say I have a blue badge, ring the council if you want to understand the rules. Then smile politely and leave

What I find entertaining here are the posters with DC who are clearly dying to claim that having children is just as difficult as having a disability - but they can’t because of everyone else with DC telling them they’re talking nonsense.

The problem with people thinking its okay to park in a disabled space so long as they leave one empty is that disabled people don't go out on a rota and more than one might turn up.

Making car parking spaces wider to accommodate modern cars would make everyone's life easier though

If you want me to explain?
I think it’s interesting you experienced having children as a “lifestyle choice”, for me - I didn’t experience it like that.
To me having children felt like more akin to a need, like the need to eat. It wasn’t a “rational” decision making process where I felt there were reasonable alternatives. When i hear many women describe their experience of infertility, I can relate to the totalising sense of existential pain it conjures up for so many 💔.

Furthermore, children are humans, not a “lifestyle” and who “chose” or not to create them is immaterial to the fact they are here , human, and need caring for, (including in terms of their physical safety in car parks). It’s totally nonsensical to start trotting out “well you chose to have children”.

having said that I think OP was reasonable to take the space as a disabled person and I think those mothers were so rude. However , I think OP was unreasonable in bringing up their “choice” to have children.

Absolutely not. There’s a world of difference between having ‘mobility issues’ because you’re overloaded with bags, baby and pram, and the mobility issues caused by disability. And disabled people shouldn’t have to compete with parents as to who has the worst problems. Hence the blue badge.

However , I think OP was unreasonable in bringing up their “choice” to have children.

I don’t think the OP was at all unreasonable - it’s in context. Having children is a choice, disability is not, as evidenced by the fact that there is a legal obligation to provide blue badge spaces, which are enforced by law, whereas there is no legal obligation to provide parent and child spaces and they are not legally enforceable.

Having children is a choice, disability is not
i explained above why I think this statement is 1) meaningless, and 2) irrelevant.

I think the legal obligations reflect need rather than an assessment of decision making.

I wasn’t really arguing parents should be hijacking disabled bays - I was asking the opinion of the OP. OP do you think they could if there was plenty of space?

Anyway; on the topic of having children is a choice - how ridiculous is it to equate parking space with choosing to have children.. May I please have a parking space if I have been raped? We live in a society. Children are tomorrow’s society , and the likely clients of those supermarkets and disability allowances through tax. Childless people are the children of parents. Same stupid argument over and over again about nursery costs, free food allowance at schools, basically anything that involves childless people giving a bit of an allowance to children.

This discussion really needs some empathy from all sides.

Of course you can use those spaces if you need to. It's got a legally protected space. I have been a blue badge user and a mother of young children. I would always understand that a blue badge trumps a buggy but I can see why others wouldn't. I would just refuse to engage.

not

As a childless person I frequently, frequently argue and campaign for

Better funded maternity care
Better funded child care
Better funded education
Free school meals
Sure Start centres

etc etc. At work I am known for being the person who campaigns for making employees who are parents lives easier with flexible working etc.

But I do wonder sometimes why I bother when some parents come out with shit like this

basically anything that involves childless people giving a bit of an allowance to children.

Because yes all childless people are selfish bitches who hate parents and children or whatever insult it is today.

May I please have a parking space if I have been raped

quite 🤣

@Catchasingmewithspiders thank you for doing all these things. No I do not at all think all childless people are selfish. I don’t believe I said that... Most childless people aren’t selfish at all.

But in mn we do get into this rabbit hole of children are a choice therefore parents shouldn’t be helped in childcare, free meals etc etc anytime a discussion like this ensues. I was merely pointing out the ridiculousness of the discussion above that suggests children are a choice, therefore parents shouldn’t have their lives made easy by allocated parking spaces.

For the record, I wholeheartedly support OP in this. - the parent was rude and of course in her condition she should be allowed to park anywhere. Just in case there was any doubt.

If you want a fine, sure.

Lots of the people saying children are a choice are parents. But apparently only childless people come under fire for this from you.

Lots of posters who say that parents shouldn't get benefits, or free childcare or that we cannot afford to spend more on education or healthcare are parents. But apparently only childless people come under fire for this from you.

You asked for more empathy whilst giving none.

There is something odd about Threads like these.
the other week there was one with a -v- in the title to do with wheelchair spaces on buses.
why do people like the op want to pit people against each other?

Of course you’re entitled to think those things, but that has no impact on the fact that having children or not is indeed a choice.

That you don’t think the word reflects the gravity of having children is irrelevant. As painful as you may have found it, you were absolutely free to choose not to have them. Similarly, you were and are free to decide, fertility permitting, how many to have and when to have them. Conversely, someone doesn’t get to opt out of disability.

There have always been threads like these. Because there have always been people who think they're entitled to a BB space without a BB, or a wheelchair space without wheelchair.

Can you not see that the issue here is that disabled people are still struggling to access areas that people fought long and hard to get in the first place?

The needs of a parent be it with a pram on the bus or in a parking space shouldn't have any impact on the daily life of a person with a disability, yet here you are thinking it's about people being 'pitted' against each other. It's not.

@Catchasingmewithspiders hmm, interesting, yes I was indeed specifically talking about childless people who argue that parents shouldnt have any entitlement to childcare, free meals etc. though that’s only cos I was answering to a comment above. Parents not wanting childcare is unusual really, but my comments towards them would be exactly the same.

You yourself said you are not arguing that parents should get fuck all, so not sure why you are being so aggressive with me here, did you have a bad day?

I said was both sides to this argument need to show some empathy. And what on earth are you on about me not giving empathy. Thats all I said to the OP!

Kindly go try to pick up a fight elsewhere, you are not having it from me tonight. Ciao darling all the best to you.

Of course I realise some people’s disabilities are not obvious and I entirely understand that in your situation and others like you, you would use the lift available but there are many able bodied people that just don’t think.

Ok since there are people who think having DC means they should be entitled to all sorts of freebies from childless people and disabled people…

How about special spaces for people like me who have just had my toenails painted? As this is a societal pressure on women, so men and people who can’t walk should let me park close to where I need to go until they’re fully dry. Also I should have a grant towards my pedicures because, again, societal pressure.

I also think shops should have special spaces for people who are doing a big shop.

And for people who have dogs (this is not a choice btw as I have a heightened emotional attachment to dogs so can’t be without one).

Absolutely the biggest YANBU I have ever read. I am not one of those people who care about people parking in disabled or parent and child spaces, I don't pay attention to whether people have blue badges or car seats, but my opinion (and what I thought was everyone's opinion) is that if there are no parent and child spaces, you cannot park in a disabled space, BUT, if there are no disabled spaces, 100% a disabled person should be priority in a parent and child space! If there are no parent and child spaces when I go shopping I have to park in a normal space, why shouldn't these 2 idiots that had a go at you? Not every car park even has parent and child spaces, I don't believe they are required by law like disabled spaces are.