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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Parent & Child -v- Disabled Parking Bays?

493 replies

Lambstails · 24/05/2023 15:31

Hello,

Firstly, I feel the need to apologise for posting on here, but I'm genuinely interested in the view of any parents or other guardians of children who use dedicated parent and child spaces. The reason for my apology being that I am not, and have never unfortunately been a parent myself - this was not a lifestyle choice.

I am however, registered disabled and in receipt of the higher mobility rate of PIP which automatically entitles me to use a blue badge. The nature of my condition means that some (very few) days I am quite capable of parking in a 'normal' bay if there is one available relatively close to where I need to be, but most days I HAVE to use a wider bay to get myself in and out of my car, together with my wheeled walker. On days where I can cope ok with just a walking stick, and where there's a regular space available close enough, I steer clear of the blue badge bays, preferring to leave them for people who have no option but to use them. I also would like to add (as it's relevant further down) that my 85 year old Mother is also registered disabled (we have the same congenital spinal condition). My Mum is also sadly now in palliative care for terminal cancer and she cannot walk more than about 10 metres, so is a wheelchair user. She is rarely well enough to leave the house, but on hers and mine 'better' days, I do try and get her out for an hour or so.

A month or so ago, I was able to take Mum out and parked at a local retail park where the ratio of blue badge spaces to parent and child spaces is about 8/15 in the P&C space's favour (I find this bewildering, to be honest). There were no BB spaces free, but plenty of P&C bays were unused. I therefore parked in one and ensured my blue badge was displayed. Fast forward to when we returned to my car, having pushed Mum around the shop for 5 minutes or so, got her out of her wheelchair, into the car and the wheelchair in the boot, I was about on my knees myself. I cannot describe how difficult this is sometimes, for both of us. Anyway, before I could get myself in the car, a furious woman came over to me and lambasted me for parking in a P&C space. She was also parked in one next to me (with her suspiciously tall teenage children in the back). I tried to explain that there were no blue badge spaces free at the time we parked but she called me all sorts of unrepeatable names and "a lazy b*tch" to boot. I pointed out that she and her 'children' looked quite capable of walking, she didn't have a pushchair or pram and that my Mum cannot walk, which she clearly could see with the difficulty getting her into the car, but she was having none of it. I decided to then ignore her and just leave, she was the sort of person there was going to be no reasoning with and being yelled and sworn out in a public car park isn't really for me.

I put this out of my mind and today went to the car park to pick up some items for Mum from Boots. Once again, there were no BB spaces free and around a dozen P&C spaces unoccupied. Today is a 'bad' day - I am in a lot of pain and walking more than a few steps at a time is difficult and I needed my walker. So I reluctantly parked in a P&C space, knowing that I would be little more than 5 minutes to pick up some medication. And yes, once again when I returned to my car, there was a young Mum waiting for me by her car (parked next to me). And yes, once again I received a berating. This lady was a different model to the previous angry woman - she politely asked me if I was aware I had parked in a P&C space - I was completely honest and said yes, hence why I had displayed my blue badge. Maybe I should have lied and pleaded ignorance, as at this point she changed - having ascertained I had knowingly parked here, she promptly called me selfish and said she was off to find a security officer to report me and my selfishness. The source of her fury seemed to be that she said she wouldn't dream of parking in a BB bay if all the P&C spaces were full. I pointed out that she has a choice whether to walk a little further or not, I usually don't. I suggested she maybe should have considered this before deciding whether to have children, if it was to become so important to her, she said it's nothing to do with not wanting to walk, and everything to do with the safety of parents and their children, apparently it isn't safe for a Mother to be pushing a young baby in a pram around a busy car park. The way my legs operate most days, I wouldn't be particularly safe walking on bubble wrap!

I am more distressed, rattled and upset about these two incidents than I probably should be. With my own middle age, the impending mortality of both my parents, together with both my nieces recently having had their first babies, perhaps my own child-free status is playing on my mind at the moment, although I don't think I am the 'woe is me' type. I am not an unhappy, bitter old bag (honestly!) - I've got a fantastic husband, and a great job; I've had a lot in my life to be so very thankful for. Children of our own would have been the icing on the cake, but it's never been the be-all and end-all. On both occasions, whilst being sweetly polite to these women, more than anything I wanted to scream at them to be damn thankful for what they've got and just go and enjoy it. Having a blue badge is not a choice for me, to have had children would have been - that's how I see the difference.

I really would like to get some opinions on this emotive subject, more to try and understand the perspective of these two women. I have no idea if P&C spaces are 'legal' spaces as are BB bays, but even if they are, if there are dozens of them available and not being used, what is the real harm of a BB holder using one? I'm not convinced that P&C spaces aren't actually a marketing ploy conjured up by the retailers, as typically these spaces now tend to be nearer shops' entrances than actual BB ones!

I'm interested in all opinions, particularly those that can put a different spin on this and make me see it from the point of view of these two women. One of my 'new Mum' nieces has joined in the attack on me - she too believes that I have acted selfishly and reiterated how difficult it is to get baby/child seats out of a car without sufficient space around them. I do understand that. But thinking about it, if the situation was reversed and BB spaces were available where P&C ones weren't, I doubt very much I would begrudge a parent or guardian parking in one if it was obvious they needed to!

(I've just realised how long this post is, apologies if you made it this far down and are still with me 😂)

Thanks,

Beatrix x

OP posts:
Clymene · 25/05/2023 09:38

You can get 8 points in the planning a journey bit of mobility which won't entitle you to a BB

highlandspooce · 25/05/2023 09:48

Clymene · 25/05/2023 09:38

You can get 8 points in the planning a journey bit of mobility which won't entitle you to a BB

You wouldn't get the enhanced rate with 8 points anyway. But it is possible to get enough points over the combined mobility descriptors to get enhanced mobility without having enough points in either descriptor to have an automatic entitlement.

ZZpop · 25/05/2023 09:50

"It's definitely not an automatic entitlement for high rate PiP. You need to have the right amount of points in the right place too."

Yes it is automatic for high rate mobility DLA but not for PIP.

ApplesandOrangesandPears · 25/05/2023 09:51

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 24/05/2023 21:44

parent and child spaces are helpful to keep her on the path to the shop instead of wandering across a car park.

Holding their hand is what most parents do.

Thank you for that helpful insight 😏 it's almost like I hadn't thought of that. Most people only have 2 hands though and when I've got a trolley full of food, a 3 year old with sensory issues and an 8 year old with ADHD it's easier to walk around the path than it is to manoeuvre them across a car park. We don't park in BB spaces and wouldn't dream of berating a BB holder for parking in a P&C space, but I'm not going to deny that P&C spaces are very helpful for keeping children safer.

Lambstails · 25/05/2023 10:01

I have only recently moved to PIP, having received the precursor DLA for years before that. And yes, I had forgotten that it's now a points system, so apologies if I quoted incorrectly that. However it was calculated (and without looking at the paperwork, I'm not sure), I was entitled to reapply for my BB when it expired!

OP posts:
Spiderysummer · 25/05/2023 10:02

When I used to use parent and child spaces, I often wished they were further away from the supermarket as they were often used by people using the cash machine. I have parked in these bays a couple of times with my mum who has a blue badge. Not been confronted but if you need to get a wheelchair up to the door, it's impossible in a standard parking bay when all bb places are full. You've done nothing wrong.

pam290358 · 25/05/2023 10:05

highlandspooce · 25/05/2023 09:37

Me too, I'm in Scotland. In England you don't get an automatic BB for 12 points on planning a journey, you need 10 specifically.

There’s a bit of confusion about this - my apologies and a bit of clarification. There are two parts to PIP mobility - ‘planning and following a route’ and ‘moving around’. The former incorporates mental health and cognitive issues and the latter physical limitations. In England if you score 10 points in the former, specifically for descriptor E, this will automatically qualify you for a BB. Similarly either 8 points or 12 points in the moving around category as unable to mobilise more than 50m and 20m respectively, is also an automatic entitlement to a BB. Any other combination of points requires the application to be considered under the LA’s existing eligibility conditions.

heyitsthistle · 25/05/2023 10:13

As a parent of two young children, I love using P&C spaces as it gives me more room to manoeuvre with a pram etc etc. However, if someone with a blue badge needed to park there I would never ever get even remotely upset about it.

I am dumfounded by those who are. What a wild world we live in.

Rosscameasdoody · 25/05/2023 10:13

highlandspooce · 25/05/2023 09:48

You wouldn't get the enhanced rate with 8 points anyway. But it is possible to get enough points over the combined mobility descriptors to get enhanced mobility without having enough points in either descriptor to have an automatic entitlement.

You don't need the enhanced rate of PIP mobility to qualify for a BB. It’s where the points are scored and the previous poster was correct in saying that there is an automatic entitlement for a BB at either standard or enhanced rate of PIP provided at least 8 points come from the moving around category or 10 points for descriptor E

highlandspooce · 25/05/2023 10:17

You don't need the enhanced rate of PIP mobility to qualify for a BB. It’s where the points are scored and the previous poster was correct in saying that there is an automatic entitlement for a BB at either standard or enhanced rate of PIP provided at least 8 points come from the moving around category or 10 points for descriptor E

Sorry the discussion started by the comment that the enhanced rate means an automatic BB which is absolutely doesn't, I have also said you need the points in the right place.

Rosscameasdoody · 25/05/2023 10:18

MrFlobby · 24/05/2023 21:03

@Catchasingmewithspiders nice googling btw x

FYI. If you’re disabled, you don’t need to google these figures, you know them. And the reason you know them is because you also know that at some point you’ll need them to quote to people like you.

highlandspooce · 25/05/2023 10:18

@pam290358

That's what o was trying to explain (badly) - it's not an automatic entitlement just based on enhanced rate mobility.

pam290358 · 25/05/2023 10:35

highlandspooce · 25/05/2023 10:18

@pam290358

That's what o was trying to explain (badly) - it's not an automatic entitlement just based on enhanced rate mobility.

I didn’t do too good a job myself with my first post !! Hence the clarification that there are automatic entitlements, but with PIP mobility being split into two categories, of course, it depends on where those points are scored. The difference between PIP and DLA mobility is that MH and cognitive conditions are considered for PIP and so local authorities have to be sure that if an award includes points for these conditions, the applicant still satisfies their own mobility criteria for a BB.

Tandora · 25/05/2023 15:00

Lizzt2007 · 24/05/2023 22:16

Of course it's a lifestyle choice! You're not forced to have children, it's a choice you make!

Having Children is not a “lifestyle”. Children are people, with human dignity . Reproduction is a basic biological function , a profound and foundational part of sentient life, a human right, and essential for the sustenance of human society. We live in a deeply depraved (and moronic) culture , given this is apparently not recognisable to so many people .

Lambstails · 25/05/2023 15:24

Having children is.........."a profound and foundational part of sentient life, a human right, and essential for the sustenance of human society"

So a childless person is non sentient if having a child is a 'profound and foundational aspect' of being capable to feel or empathise with other beings?

OP posts:
AngeloMysterioso · 25/05/2023 15:31

I don’t think I would care at all if I saw somebody with limited mobility using a P&C space.

JustBeKindItsEasy · 25/05/2023 15:37

Lambstails · 25/05/2023 15:24

Having children is.........."a profound and foundational part of sentient life, a human right, and essential for the sustenance of human society"

So a childless person is non sentient if having a child is a 'profound and foundational aspect' of being capable to feel or empathise with other beings?

You mustn’t feel offended by this comment
PP wasn’t saying you can’t be caring unless you have kids.

Rosscameasdoody · 25/05/2023 15:38

I think what those advocating that having children is a lifestyle choice in this particular context actually mean to say, is that having children is, in the main, a choice, whereas disability is not.

Rosscameasdoody · 25/05/2023 15:40

Lambstails · 25/05/2023 15:24

Having children is.........."a profound and foundational part of sentient life, a human right, and essential for the sustenance of human society"

So a childless person is non sentient if having a child is a 'profound and foundational aspect' of being capable to feel or empathise with other beings?

No, I don’t think this is what that poster meant at all - I think you’re taking it a little too personally.

Tandora · 25/05/2023 15:42

Lambstails · 25/05/2023 15:24

Having children is.........."a profound and foundational part of sentient life, a human right, and essential for the sustenance of human society"

So a childless person is non sentient if having a child is a 'profound and foundational aspect' of being capable to feel or empathise with other beings?

Of course not- not at all. people without children are to be fully valued, respected etc on an absolutely equal footing to those with children.
But having children / reproduction is a fundamental function of life , it’s a profound biological drive/ need (not everyone has it, but a lot of people do). Having children should not be devalued or reduced to a “lifestyle choice”.

Mumto1boyo · 25/05/2023 15:46

You arent in the wrong. You park where you bloody well want.
We chose to have a child and a lot of the time we don't get a P&C space....oh well no biggie.

agentshreddie · 25/05/2023 15:50

Hi @Lambstails I don’t think what you did was wrong and if anything, a disabled person needs a close parking space more than a parent (I am one). The woman who shouted at you is a rude idiot (or was having a very bad day).

On the other hand I’d be interested in your opinion on whether a parent, can use a disabled parking space, if there were no other parent and child options, and there was at least one more empty space for disabled people. As a parent, I have mobility issues whilst carrying zillion bags and a baby and a pram, etc...I guess what would be great, is for supermarkets to offer a "less-abled”/low mobility parking space so disabled people and parents aren’t competing as to who has the worst problems!

DappledThings · 25/05/2023 15:52

Having children should not be devalued or reduced to a “lifestyle choice”
I don't feel my choice to have children is devalued by calling it that.

On a societal level we need enough people to make that choice if we are to continue but as individuals it is still a choice I made for my life and I've no problem labelling it as such.

Tandora · 25/05/2023 15:57

DappledThings · 25/05/2023 15:52

Having children should not be devalued or reduced to a “lifestyle choice”
I don't feel my choice to have children is devalued by calling it that.

On a societal level we need enough people to make that choice if we are to continue but as individuals it is still a choice I made for my life and I've no problem labelling it as such.

That’s interesting that you experience having children that way.

MsSquiz · 25/05/2023 16:01

Disabled parking bay are a right, parent and child parking bays are a luxury and not policed in the same way disabled parking bays are.

These women you have encountered are entitled idiots who clearly have no empathy for others.

I say this as a parent of a 1 year old and 3 year old. It's a pain in the tits trying to get them out of the car when in a standard parking space, but I would never berate someone with a blue badge for parking in a p&c spot.
I even say to DH that the p&c spaces should be at the far end of whatever car park we are in, with a path going to the shop. That way, you'd probably find a lot less people use them because they want to be closer to the shop!

Also, you were with your mum... parent and child situation!