Page 5 | ParkRun and Transgender record breaker

Naunet · 24/05/2023 07:46

user1471517900 · 23/05/2023 23:19

It's running in a park. You'd stop you and your kids doing something healthy because someone you don't like holds a record in it?! Wow.

Someone you don’t like?! Way to minimise the actions of a violent male who tried to kill a woman, top marks from the lads for you ⭐️⭐️⭐️

sanluca · 24/05/2023 07:46

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

FeelingLikeAShitMother · 24/05/2023 07:48

The point of Parkrun is that you race your own time. It’s not an event that counts towards anything. I can’t get worked up about this.

Clymene · 24/05/2023 07:49

User1367349 · 24/05/2023 07:45

Except she doesn’t hold the parkrun record. Not even close. Her fastest time is 17:18, which whilst very swift, is nearly two minutes slower than the women’s parkrun record. What a load of nonsense that’s easily fact checked.

https://www.parkrun.org.uk/results/athleteresultshistory/?athleteNumber=168567

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkrun#:~:text=in%20any%20region.-,Individual%20running%20records,Beach%20Parkrun%20near%20Adelaide%2C%20Australia.

It’s just not true. What is the consequence for journalists who write things that just aren’t true?

He holds the local parkrun women's record.

AuContraire · 24/05/2023 07:49

User1367349 · 24/05/2023 07:45

Except she doesn’t hold the parkrun record. Not even close. Her fastest time is 17:18, which whilst very swift, is nearly two minutes slower than the women’s parkrun record. What a load of nonsense that’s easily fact checked.

https://www.parkrun.org.uk/results/athleteresultshistory/?athleteNumber=168567

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkrun#:~:text=in%20any%20region.-,Individual%20running%20records,Beach%20Parkrun%20near%20Adelaide%2C%20Australia.

It’s just not true. What is the consequence for journalists who write things that just aren’t true?

He (he) holds the course record for that ParkRun.

Which matters to the women who would otherwise hold that record and would have their name up there in pride of place on the course website.

Naunet · 24/05/2023 07:53

andifeelfine · 23/05/2023 23:48

How would you enforce that? There are millions of registered parkrunners around the world. Given how long parkrun has been in existence, some of those registered athletes are dead. And some never actually run; they only volunteer.

Should parkrun HQ (there aren't actually that many paid staff) go visit millions of people around the world and demand to inspect their genitalia so they can adjust their profiles if necessary?

How should new participants sign up? Do they need to submit some kind of special registration evidence? Well, that's a barrier to participation, and the whole point of parkrun is to encourage as many people as possible to participate, not block them from joining in.

Try again.

Show quote history

and demand to inspect their genitalia

Yes dear because that’s the only way we can tell someone’s sex isn’t it? I mean maybe you’re only 12 and don’t remember a time before this utter bullshit started, but we all managed just fine. How do you think men managed to stop women from having the vote if they couldn’t tell who the women were? Please do explain that one, I’d love to know.

AuContraire · 24/05/2023 07:53

CantSell · 24/05/2023 07:43

I’m a GC parkrunning woman. Parkrun is a run, not a race, and organised by kind hearted volunteers. I suspect most of those objecting have no idea what parkrun is actually like. If a transwoman finished ahead of me, and was listed as female, I’d just roll my eyes at their self deception. All I care about is my PB.

I think parkrun should probably scrap course records and maybe do away with places, just listing finishers alphabetically. That way people (mainly non-parkrunners) would stop obsessing about records and the rest of us could just enjoy parkrun as it was intended: a non-competitive, run in the park with a friendly bunch of people.

I'm also a weekly ParkRunner and I'm furious about this.

They need to choose a policy and stick to it. It can't be categories and rankings matter and here's the weekly statistics, but also that the statistics don't matter in the women's category.

Doagooddeed · 24/05/2023 07:53

FeelingLikeAShitMother · 24/05/2023 07:48

The point of Parkrun is that you race your own time. It’s not an event that counts towards anything. I can’t get worked up about this.

You could say that about almost all grass roots amateur sport.

Lets just have an Open Category, no men/female races or categories.

Make you happy?

AuContraire · 24/05/2023 07:57

And the truth is, ParkRun KNOW that if they didn't publish the times and positions etc – if it really was 'just a run, not a race' – then far fewer people (of both sexes) would take part.

They are talking out of both sides of their face.

fellrunner85 · 24/05/2023 08:03

Look, I'm about fairness in sport as much as anyone. I've got skin in this game.

But this thread is utter bollocks, and dangerous bollocks at that.

It starts out:
Trans runner (M to F) has smashed a woman’s record. Turns out he’s an attempted murderer too

The truth is less interesting. Nobody has been "smashing" anything.
The facts of the case are that Lauren Jeska ran that Parkrun time 11 years ago. Eleven. Years. And they are very much in prison now, having not competed since 2014 (stats all published on Power of 10 for those who want to check).
Beside the point, but it's not even an especially quick time. Most Parkruns have women's records a couple of minutes faster than that. I'm guessing it's a very hilly course.

Scaremongering stuff like this does not help those of us who want to have a grown up conversation about trans rights in sport.

AuContraire · 24/05/2023 08:05

fellrunner85 · 24/05/2023 08:03

Look, I'm about fairness in sport as much as anyone. I've got skin in this game.

But this thread is utter bollocks, and dangerous bollocks at that.

It starts out:
Trans runner (M to F) has smashed a woman’s record. Turns out he’s an attempted murderer too

The truth is less interesting. Nobody has been "smashing" anything.
The facts of the case are that Lauren Jeska ran that Parkrun time 11 years ago. Eleven. Years. And they are very much in prison now, having not competed since 2014 (stats all published on Power of 10 for those who want to check).
Beside the point, but it's not even an especially quick time. Most Parkruns have women's records a couple of minutes faster than that. I'm guessing it's a very hilly course.

Scaremongering stuff like this does not help those of us who want to have a grown up conversation about trans rights in sport.

Has that female course record been beaten in 11 years?

Naunet · 24/05/2023 08:06

fellrunner85 · 24/05/2023 08:03

Look, I'm about fairness in sport as much as anyone. I've got skin in this game.

But this thread is utter bollocks, and dangerous bollocks at that.

It starts out:
Trans runner (M to F) has smashed a woman’s record. Turns out he’s an attempted murderer too

The truth is less interesting. Nobody has been "smashing" anything.
The facts of the case are that Lauren Jeska ran that Parkrun time 11 years ago. Eleven. Years. And they are very much in prison now, having not competed since 2014 (stats all published on Power of 10 for those who want to check).
Beside the point, but it's not even an especially quick time. Most Parkruns have women's records a couple of minutes faster than that. I'm guessing it's a very hilly course.

Scaremongering stuff like this does not help those of us who want to have a grown up conversation about trans rights in sport.

No males should be in women’s sport, simple as that, doesn’t matter how long ago it was, because it’s still happening.

literalviolence · 24/05/2023 08:07

Naunet · 24/05/2023 08:06

No males should be in women’s sport, simple as that, doesn’t matter how long ago it was, because it’s still happening.

Show quote history

And any conversation which tries to allow any men, ever, into a women's sport is not grown up.

workwerk · 24/05/2023 08:07

fellrunner85 · 24/05/2023 08:03

Look, I'm about fairness in sport as much as anyone. I've got skin in this game.

But this thread is utter bollocks, and dangerous bollocks at that.

It starts out:
Trans runner (M to F) has smashed a woman’s record. Turns out he’s an attempted murderer too

The truth is less interesting. Nobody has been "smashing" anything.
The facts of the case are that Lauren Jeska ran that Parkrun time 11 years ago. Eleven. Years. And they are very much in prison now, having not competed since 2014 (stats all published on Power of 10 for those who want to check).
Beside the point, but it's not even an especially quick time. Most Parkruns have women's records a couple of minutes faster than that. I'm guessing it's a very hilly course.

Scaremongering stuff like this does not help those of us who want to have a grown up conversation about trans rights in sport.

You have no idea.

Clymene · 24/05/2023 08:11

I'm guessing people who are speculating that it may be a very hilly course have never been to Aberystwyth.

A man - who is in prison for attempted premeditated murder - has held the women's record for 11 years. In 11 years, no woman has been able to beat this man's time which has been wrongly recorded as a woman's.

AuContraire · 24/05/2023 08:11

AuContraire · 24/05/2023 08:05

Has that female course record been beaten in 11 years?

Show quote history

Oh look, no, it hasn't.

11 years. This is now a fossilised record.

For 11 years, local women have run that ParkRun course and been the fastest female finisher, with no recognition of that, because a man cheated.

Aaarrgg · 24/05/2023 08:11

Naunet · 24/05/2023 08:06

No males should be in women’s sport, simple as that, doesn’t matter how long ago it was, because it’s still happening.

Show quote history

It's interesting to read the post above and see how this really happened. 11 years ago, pre-conviction. To be honest, this should make it very simple to wipe this athlete's records. It's an old record, the person is known to be trans, a murderer, and their record is enough to that it's not been beaten in 11 years.

But ParkRun can do nothing going forward other than to allow self-ID. You literally tick a box on registration. It is a grassroots, volunteer-led organization with millions of runners signed up. They can't inspect birth certificates, conduct hormone tests or whatever else elite sport can do.

It's shit when media stir up trans controversy unnecessarily, though in this case, I feel that ParkRun could have avoided it by wiping this record years ago.

cakeorwine · 24/05/2023 08:11

AuContraire · 24/05/2023 07:57

And the truth is, ParkRun KNOW that if they didn't publish the times and positions etc – if it really was 'just a run, not a race' – then far fewer people (of both sexes) would take part.

They are talking out of both sides of their face.

If positions matter, then does it matter if more women or men take part next week - so you could be 30th 1 week or 1st next week and yet do better when you came 30th compared to when you came 1sr - as it's the time that matters.

Would you prefer to be the 1st female but with a slower time or 2nd female with a faster time?

Another question - how do you know if a runner is trans or not? Sometimes it's obvious, Sometimes it isn't.

What about transmen - should they run under their biological sex? All that testosterone could really help.

Maybe each person should have to show their birth certificate and take a hormone test before running?

megletthesecond · 24/05/2023 08:12

Jeska holds that parkrun course record. Every course is different, some have hills, flat paths, sand, U bend corners etc. My PB's are 4 minutes different on easy and hard courses.
At some point a man will steal Melissa Courtney-Bryants course record too.

lifeturnsonadime · 24/05/2023 08:14

I find this thread really offensive for 2 reasons.

People on this thread have used cis, which is offensive to many women.

People on this thread are referring to this violent man as a woman.

He is not a she.

ArabeIIaScott · 24/05/2023 08:17

literalviolence · 24/05/2023 00:14

I don't hate trans people but i do hate people using such a stupid dog whistle. Keeping men out of women's spaces is not evidence of hate and me n had no right to be there in the first place. I gave a completely sensible solution. Wipe the records of people known to have entered the wrong sex category. Such as this cheat.

Show quote history

Yes. What a fucking insult to women this is.

AuContraire · 24/05/2023 08:18

Aaarrgg · 24/05/2023 08:11

It's interesting to read the post above and see how this really happened. 11 years ago, pre-conviction. To be honest, this should make it very simple to wipe this athlete's records. It's an old record, the person is known to be trans, a murderer, and their record is enough to that it's not been beaten in 11 years.

But ParkRun can do nothing going forward other than to allow self-ID. You literally tick a box on registration. It is a grassroots, volunteer-led organization with millions of runners signed up. They can't inspect birth certificates, conduct hormone tests or whatever else elite sport can do.

It's shit when media stir up trans controversy unnecessarily, though in this case, I feel that ParkRun could have avoided it by wiping this record years ago.

Show quote history

On what basis should they wipe the record?

Which of their policy rules has he broken?

lifeturnsonadime · 24/05/2023 08:20

But ParkRun can do nothing going forward other than to allow self-ID. You literally tick a box on registration. It is a grassroots, volunteer-led organization with millions of runners signed up. They can't inspect birth certificates, conduct hormone tests or whatever else elite sport can do.

Wasn't it wonderful when the social contract meant that women weren't seen as a 'gender' that men could identify into.

We could reasonable trust that men wouldn't self ID to cheat at sport, then get so angry when men in women's sport was investigated that they tried to kill someone !

The fact that this violent man is in a woman's prison is sickening.

cakeorwine · 24/05/2023 08:21

The obvious answer is to take away the record and give it to the next person who got the fastest speed.

Of course - how do you know they're not trans?

Doagooddeed · 24/05/2023 08:23

The fact that this violent man is in a woman's prison is sickening

I thought we were all safe with the Tories in Govt as Rishi knows what a woman is.

Is this not correct?