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Original poster

ParkRun and Transgender record breaker

532 replies

PennysLane · 23/05/2023 23:09

Trans runner (M to F) has smashed a woman’s record. Turns out he’s an attempted murderer too.

He attempted to murder the HR Manager of U.K. Athletics after he investigated his eligibility to compete as a woman. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Jeska )

I have enjoyed Parkrun on several occasions with my children, I’ll not be doing it again until they get this sorted. If at all.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/22/parkrun-self-id-male-runners-smash-womens-records/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/23/transgender-murder-parkrun/

Parkrun women's record held by transgender attempted murderer

Feminist activists outraged as it is revealed the fun run record is held by Lauren Jeska, who was given an 18-year sentence in 2017

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/23/transgender-murder-parkrun/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
literalviolence · 24/05/2023 00:24

andifeelfine · 24/05/2023 00:19

But it's not a women's space. parkrun is literally a space for anyone over 4 to come along and participate. Men and women don't start at different times. Everyone just sets off together. People of all genders... people with buggies... dogs... wheelchair users... runners, walkers, joggers... it's a free for all.

If you want to wipe times, you really have to review all times - that's a huge undertaking. And how do you go about that? Follow a witch hunt and demand certain individuals provide medical certificates to prove they can keep their course record?

I mean, some people might be outed in the media as trans when they're not. You can't just arbitrarily wipe someone's results because someone said a thing.

Show quote history

The women's category is a women's space. I think you're being obtuse on purpose. There will be very few record setters. People aren't going to bother reporting those pretending to be the opposite sex and running a 35 min race. Or we could do it your way and have a free for all with no meaningful distinction between men and women's categories and no chance ever of an actual women holding a record. Which is a dick move and very anti women.

lifeturnsonadime · 24/05/2023 00:25

andifeelfine · 24/05/2023 00:22

She ran at parkrun from 2013 to 2015. She's excluded from running at her local parkrun already by virtue of being in prison.

As it stands, parkrun believes in rehabilitation. They have several closed event parkruns in prisons. (Prisoners run under pseudonyms.)

Show quote history

The lengths you are going to to try to convince women that a male who tried to murder an official is a woman and should compete as such is frankly astonishing.

andifeelfine · 24/05/2023 01:06

@lifeturnsonadime @literalviolence There's no concept of competing at parkrun. Frankly, I find it astonishing you keep treating it as a race. It's not.

I agree that the issue of how to treat cis-women and transwomen at competitive races is a complex one where debate is needed and quite possibly extra categories. But parkrun is not a competitive race.

FFS, quite a lot of parkrun times are made up. There's a reason why you can't use a parkrun time as a qualifying time for anything. Given how old this course record was, it would have been recorded using a manual stopwatch by a volunteer who quite possibly only had 2 minutes of training in how to use it.

You tend to get certified timekeepers at real races - people who have done special courses in that sort of thing. Not random volunteers who might have never done timekeeping before.

I checked her time, btw. There are faster cis-women in the parkrun world. Maybe one of them will visit and set a new female record organically. That would certainly be the easiest way to put an end to this noise...

AmbleInAnnBoleyn · 24/05/2023 01:08

Excuse me please could you not use cis in relation to women.

Women and transwomen is fine.

Thank you.

andifeelfine · 24/05/2023 01:23

AmbleInAnnBoleyn · 24/05/2023 01:08

Excuse me please could you not use cis in relation to women.

Women and transwomen is fine.

Thank you.

MN is full of shorthand. I can't say I love 'cis', but it's quicker than writing 'women who were assigned a sex of female at birth' and no less stupid than DH as shorthand for husband.

If I refer to women generally, it's unclear whether I'm solely talking about those of us who were born female and still identify as female or if I'm including trans women in that group. Especially in the context of a thread about trans participation in a community event.

(Assuming you are a woman who was born a woman, I will take care not to use the term specifically in relation to you.)

windowsopen · 24/05/2023 02:08

Attempted to kill someone for reasons related to athletics and an obsession with personal records and competing as a female... Confused

BenCoopersSupportWren · 24/05/2023 02:58

I agree that the issue of how to treat cis-women and transwomen at competitive races is a complex one where debate is needed and quite possibly extra categories. But parkrun is not a competitive race.

Why is it complex? Transwomen are men, and should compete in the male category. Male puberty confers a myriad of physical advantages that are not negated by taking oestrogen (assuming TW even go so far to transition; many do not). Teenage boys can beat elite female athletes’ records once they’ve gone through puberty.

Why should fair competition for women take second place behind validating men who don’t like to be thought of as men? Why do their feelings trump fairness for women, when there is already a category they can compete in which doesn’t involve cheating?

Sports are sex-segregated, not gender-segregated, and it is not possible to change sex however much one may wish it to be so. Therefore one should compete in the category that is for one’s natal sex.

I doubt Paralympians would be overjoyed if able-bodied elite athletes started identifying as disabled and setting new records; it’s the same principle.

Theyreallydidaskthat · 24/05/2023 03:15

andifeelfine · 24/05/2023 01:06

@lifeturnsonadime @literalviolence There's no concept of competing at parkrun. Frankly, I find it astonishing you keep treating it as a race. It's not.

I agree that the issue of how to treat cis-women and transwomen at competitive races is a complex one where debate is needed and quite possibly extra categories. But parkrun is not a competitive race.

FFS, quite a lot of parkrun times are made up. There's a reason why you can't use a parkrun time as a qualifying time for anything. Given how old this course record was, it would have been recorded using a manual stopwatch by a volunteer who quite possibly only had 2 minutes of training in how to use it.

You tend to get certified timekeepers at real races - people who have done special courses in that sort of thing. Not random volunteers who might have never done timekeeping before.

I checked her time, btw. There are faster cis-women in the parkrun world. Maybe one of them will visit and set a new female record organically. That would certainly be the easiest way to put an end to this noise...

It would be better to have two, additional, separate categories, one for Trans Men and one for Trans Women. There should only be biological females in the women's category. It not being a competitive race is a strawman argument. Whilst many view it as a run many others run for a 'Time' and measure themselves against others in the same biological sex and age group. I don't know a runner that doesn't look at that stuff even if it is just for fun.

Valeriekat · 24/05/2023 04:22

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Transplainers?

Valeriekat · 24/05/2023 04:26

AmbleInAnnBoleyn · 24/05/2023 01:08

Excuse me please could you not use cis in relation to women.

Women and transwomen is fine.

Thank you.

Thankyou.

Mummyoflittledragon · 24/05/2023 04:44

andifeelfine · 24/05/2023 01:23

MN is full of shorthand. I can't say I love 'cis', but it's quicker than writing 'women who were assigned a sex of female at birth' and no less stupid than DH as shorthand for husband.

If I refer to women generally, it's unclear whether I'm solely talking about those of us who were born female and still identify as female or if I'm including trans women in that group. Especially in the context of a thread about trans participation in a community event.

(Assuming you are a woman who was born a woman, I will take care not to use the term specifically in relation to you.)

Show quote history

Biological females aren’t a subset of woman. Women and transwomen is therefore fine. If you prefer to differentiate, please use natal woman or biological woman. But again, woman is precise and needs no determiner.

Redebs · 24/05/2023 05:07

Addymontgomeryfan · 23/05/2023 23:39

They could stop allowing participants to self identify their gender, which would mean that women's records are actually held by women.

Show quote history

Especially since he attempted murder of an official who tried to enforce rules against men running as women in events!

FurAndFeathers · 24/05/2023 05:11

FangsForTheMemory · 23/05/2023 23:35

I think you’ve been looking for an anti-trans rant and this is the best you can do. Maybe spend your time more productively?

So you don’t think women have a right to fair access to sporting achievements? Why is that?

workwerk · 24/05/2023 05:12

Only women should run as a woman. What's the point of having a men and women's section, if the men are going to encroach into the women's space? Back to the men's section please. Bye.

workwerk · 24/05/2023 05:14

It starts as a Parkrun but where does it stop? 52 year old men playing rugby against women?

Swimmers prancing around womens changing rooms with their penis out?

Male cyclists physically pushing a women mid race with their bike to win.

Oh, wait...

FurAndFeathers · 24/05/2023 05:14

andifeelfine · 24/05/2023 01:23

MN is full of shorthand. I can't say I love 'cis', but it's quicker than writing 'women who were assigned a sex of female at birth' and no less stupid than DH as shorthand for husband.

If I refer to women generally, it's unclear whether I'm solely talking about those of us who were born female and still identify as female or if I'm including trans women in that group. Especially in the context of a thread about trans participation in a community event.

(Assuming you are a woman who was born a woman, I will take care not to use the term specifically in relation to you.)

Show quote history

You can literally just say women and trans women.

it’s pretty clear that one group are ummm…women

the others are male-born who identify with regressive gender stereotypes of what they believe women to be

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 24/05/2023 05:27

There's no concept of competing at parkrun. Frankly, I find it astonishing you keep treating it as a race. It's not.
This, it's not a race. Its exercise for everyone.
If you want to race, join a race.
Only person you compete against at park run is your past self trying to beat your pb ( personal best)

kettlebellchips · 24/05/2023 05:28

Sorry, this is a bit ridiculous. The person in question is in prison. Parkrun is a largely non-competitive event.

workwerk · 24/05/2023 05:30

kettlebellchips · 24/05/2023 05:28

Sorry, this is a bit ridiculous. The person in question is in prison. Parkrun is a largely non-competitive event.

Sorry this is a bit narrow minded.

FurAndFeathers · 24/05/2023 05:31

kettlebellchips · 24/05/2023 05:28

Sorry, this is a bit ridiculous. The person in question is in prison. Parkrun is a largely non-competitive event.

Then why is there a women’s park run record?

workwerk · 24/05/2023 05:33

BenCoopersSupportWren · 24/05/2023 02:58

I agree that the issue of how to treat cis-women and transwomen at competitive races is a complex one where debate is needed and quite possibly extra categories. But parkrun is not a competitive race.

Why is it complex? Transwomen are men, and should compete in the male category. Male puberty confers a myriad of physical advantages that are not negated by taking oestrogen (assuming TW even go so far to transition; many do not). Teenage boys can beat elite female athletes’ records once they’ve gone through puberty.

Why should fair competition for women take second place behind validating men who don’t like to be thought of as men? Why do their feelings trump fairness for women, when there is already a category they can compete in which doesn’t involve cheating?

Sports are sex-segregated, not gender-segregated, and it is not possible to change sex however much one may wish it to be so. Therefore one should compete in the category that is for one’s natal sex.

I doubt Paralympians would be overjoyed if able-bodied elite athletes started identifying as disabled and setting new records; it’s the same principle.

This

Redebs · 24/05/2023 05:37

AmbleInAnnBoleyn · 24/05/2023 01:08

Excuse me please could you not use cis in relation to women.

Women and transwomen is fine.

Thank you.

How about women and men?

kettlebellchips · 24/05/2023 05:42

FurAndFeathers · 24/05/2023 05:31

Then why is there a women’s park run record?

Show quote history

i don’t think they’re taken especially seriously, and it seems it’s held by a woman

Hotcuppatea · 24/05/2023 05:46

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 24/05/2023 05:48

Incapable of giving an opinion or discussing without flinging insults, are we, hotcuppatea?!