ParkRun and Transgender record breaker

[PennysLane]

Trans runner (M to F) has smashed a woman’s record. Turns out he’s an attempted murderer too.

He attempted to murder the HR Manager of U.K. Athletics after he investigated his eligibility to compete as a woman. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Jeska )

I have enjoyed Parkrun on several occasions with my children, I’ll not be doing it again until they get this sorted. If at all.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/22/parkrun-self-id-male-runners-smash-womens-records/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/23/transgender-murder-parkrun/

Because we can tell. There was reporting at the time that Jeska was convicted by shitrags like the guardian which said that most people were unaware Jeska was a man. That's not true.

As I understand it, thanks to the infinite wisdom of the Ministry of Justice who decided that women should be used as rehabilitation and behaviour moderators for violent men, this male runner is in a female prison. If there is a prison Park Run, he will be participating registered as female.

There are people who register for parkruns under pseudonyms, often for safeguarding reasons if there is a danger from being linked to a location. For this reason, and the sheer scale of parkrun as a community based, volunteer led organisation with over 8m people registered globally, it does have to rely on people inputting their own personal details.

I would not oppose a trans category in the slightest, but suspect that it would go unused by this type of supremisist transwoman who thinks he is entitled to dominate women's spaces and he'd still select the female box.

On the day, it probably wouldn't be clear that there is going to be an issue with false course records being set, and it would emerge after the results were processed and published. It would therefore require HQ to have a reporting and investigation provision and amend statistically significant results.

At junior parkruns, the system will automatically pick up on inappropriate age categories and not publish the runner or include on their stats. At a 5k the results can be voided if runners break the u11 arm's length rule or dog policy if the RD is aware at the time.

I don't have an issue with transpeople participating in parkrun, but women shouldn't be excluded from attaining course bests and records by biological males, and those records should reflect the biological sex of those categories.

Unfortunately the politicisation of trans issues makes it very difficult for parkrun to say that we are for everyone which is a core value, but to also put in controls to alter records. Given the tendency that some trans-activists have towards literal violence (very much so in the case that the article is refering to), that also risks putting volunteers in a difficult and vulnerable position.

Ultimately parkrun is one of the most successful public health initiatives in decades. It's fair to address this issue and have concerns, but action like boycots have much wider detrimental consequences.

I'd love it if some elite women decided to go touristing and smash known false records though... alas I am very far from that league.

Great post @BogRollBOGOF

You can tell every transwoman who is trans just by looking? And you can tell if they are biologically female just by looking.

OK

I'd love it if some elite women decided to go touristing and smash known false records though... alas I am very far from that league

Wouldn't that affect local people who would then never be able to beat the local record because someone from outside the area has taken it?

So what would be the point in competing if you knew you could never win?

They can do all sorts of things about it - I don’t know why people pretend it us suddenly impossible to set rules and enforce them.

At the very least if they set a rule that runners must register their sex, not ‘gender’ or ‘gender identity’ as they currently request, then anyone observed to be registered as female but is actually male can be reported by other participants or officials and an appropriate course of action determined.

I’m sure most trans people (all these lovely gentle quiet ones who just want to live in peace we are constantly told about) have the integrity to answer a direct question like “what is your birth sex” honestly and I hope all these posters suggesting otherwise can check their transphobia.

Whilst I have no problem with parkrun running runs in prisons or indeed people believing what they want about themselves (as long as it doesn't harm others) the organisation clearly does need to look at how it deals with records for runs. Obviously there is the issue of m to f post-puberty transgender athletes posting records in the female category but also there is the issue of people convicted of serious crimes and currently serving sentences in prison being able to post records for parkruns that will clearly generate media attention.

The organisation needs a policy about records that includes both how transgender athletes should be treated and how prison park runs should be treated. My advice for the former is that they should follow the policies of UK Athletics. My advice for the latter is that no prison park runs should be eligible for records.

An alternative is to stop publishing and promoting records given that is not what they claim parkrun is about (i.e. not competitive).

Because it's one thing getting beaten by a very fast woman.

Entirely different getting beaten by a mediocre man pretending to be a woman.

If I did Park Run it would be Park Waddle - but I'd still boycott it.

And it is beyond disgusting that Jeska is held in Foston Hall - a women's prison.

I was going over this in my head in response to another thread about a transwoman taking a parkrun course record (I had no idea that Lauren Jeska held one too) and came to a similar conclusion. Parkrun can't realistically police the sex of entrants. But if they remove all the trappings of competition, the course records and the results organised by time and stating age grades, and list the results alphabetically, we genuinely will be just "taking part" or "competing with ourselves" and it won't matter, and all the bingo and alphabet and tourist "challenges" won't be affected.

But lots of us, including many who, like me, are never going to be in contention for records, enjoy having the trappings of competition and it would become an(other) example of women losing a nice thing because a tiny number of males can't be trusted not to push their way into it.

I'd like to see a policy of at least <i>asking</i> male participants not to register as female, irrespective of how they identify. I won't be boycotting parkrun in the meantime, but I'm not buying their merchandise.

It happens, one of our park run records was set by an elite runner on holiday but that doesn't mean a local female runner cannot be first female finisher on a particular day.

I'm not really sure why you are defending men running in female events.

When anyone says “it’s only Parkrun, it doesn’t matter” what you’re really saying is “it’s only women, they don’t matter”.

When anyone says “but how are you going to know they’re trans, gonna demand to see their genitals?” what you’re really saying is that you don’t think transwomen are capable of acting honourably enough to not lie about their sex and not cheat women out of their rightful sporting achievements when categories are segregated by sex.

Why do you think so badly of women AND transwomen?

I really don't care about parkrun results/records because no one really loses or wins anything at parkrun. It's a "run not a race" after all. The nearest I get to racing is the final sprint with my child (or running buddy) which is entirely irrelevant other than in the moment - we "race" at the end of most of our runs because it is fun for us! I guess at the front of some parkruns there might be an actual "race" but it's still only about bragging rights and no funding, qualifications or prizes of any sort are at stake.

The whole point of parkrun is participation with a record of times that compare with your own previous times. I could easily choose to change my DoB a few years and no one would know (or care, I'm floating in the mid 30s for time!). There are no ID checks on sign up because it doesn't matter.

I'm much more bothered about directly competitive sports (tennis, squash) where there is a 1v1 table and contact sports are the most important to regulate. Parkrun is basically a regular fun run, not a competition!

I'd have thought that attempting to murder one of its staff would be enough reason for Parkrun to strike a runner's result from the records, personally.

But there are others ways to participate in competitive running rather than parkrun. I had always understood that parkrun was about encouraging as many people as possible to run, not give elite runners another opportunity to test their mettle.

Female-bodied people who have artificially increased their testosterone levels are cheating. No, they should not be in the women's race, regardless of how they self-identity. Perhaps there could be a separate race for ftm transitioners, which would be much fairer.

Male-bodied people who have artificially reduced their testosterone levels should also not be competing against women. Firstly, because a reduction of testosterone from typical male levels comes nowhere near the level of testosterone found in females. Secondly, because a male body confers additional advantages over a female body when it comes to almost all sports.

If ParkRun is 'just' for fun, why are the results on the website?

I don't think the threshold for should be this low for scrubbing cheaters records, tbh

Because it simultaneously matters a lot, and doesn't matter at all, depending on whether it's men or women were talking about.

@randomsabreuse You mean thats how you view Park runs, many others do not.

You could make your argument for almost all grass roots competitions, the vast majority of competitors aren't going to win, prizes are minimal or non existent and no matter how well you do, it wont lead to a contract from Adidas or Nike.

So lets not safe guard women from men competing against them, after all women don't matter and on a sunday morning, they d be better off at home, making sure there is a hot brekkie and clean house for when the man returns home from from his sporting endeavours.

I don't remember having to prove who I am to register for parkrun. I don't remember having to prove my name or my gender or even my age (pretty sure that the only times I've had to prove who I was for a race even was Brighton and London marathons). 99.9999% of people doing parkrun are not even thinking about beating anyone other than themselves, yes there always is "that" person who has to come first, but they're usually entitled twats no matter what gender they identify as.

Therefore I can't be too arsed at the idea that a transgender female holds a record. It's not like parkrun is a qualifier for the Olympics or anything, it makes absolutely no difference to any other parkrunner, we're only there to compete with ourselves (and run in a social manner)

Lauren Jeska last recorded a park run time in 2015.

I can handle the fact that one of my regular parkruns has a record held by one of the current elite women. She was bloody amazing, and well done to her.

It is disconcerting being lapped when you're not expecting it by someone flying past and making it look easy though.

I will never win. Not even my age category. I'm happy to be mediocre. But the records should be fairly won.

Far better that the record is held by an elite woman who's earned it than a man in prison for violent crime.

Touristing is a popular trait of parkrun. Some parkruns exist largely because of tourists in areas of low population. Some parkruns gain a "cult" status because of their history or characteristics.

It's not local parkrun for local people.

And it's only now that we can really talk about this freely, especially on AIBU. There have been threads on this before in FWR.

Thanks to women like Maya Forstater.

Previously we were told 'trans women are women' and that there could be no debate.

The irony of those men trying to shut women up, larping as women to steal our prizes and then get into women's single sex spaces including prisons claiming to be 'the most oppressed' is not lost on me.

The TRAs really have done a number on women. They want us to only exist as a subset of our own sex (cis) and to only exist on their terms.