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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Sneaky mums

157 replies

Catguru · 23/05/2023 20:03

I don’t want to be too outing here so NC. I have a 1 year old DC and met a group of mums at NCT in pregnancy, we got on really well although I always felt like a bit of an odd one out (me and my partner had our DC unplanned, had been together the least amount of time and I am the youngest).

During mat leave we all met up very frequently and had a group chat going which was always very active. I struggled a lot in the early days and had a traumatic birth and found the group of new friends priceless as I had no other mum friends who I could speak to about my worries and anxieties, I really thought I’d hit the jackpot with friends here.

fast forward a year and me and my DC have walked into a cafe and have seen them all sat there laughing and joking…. I approached them and was met with awkwardness, stuttering and just sheer embarrassment. It was clear they had planned behind my back and left me out. When questioning them later it turns out they’ve basically said I moan about my problems too much.

is this really my fault? Have I been unlucky and met a group of horrible women? Is my DC going to loose friends in the future because of me and my ways?

OP posts:
EmptyBedBlues · 23/05/2023 21:14

SunnyFrost · 23/05/2023 20:42

Sorry that happened to you, I can see completely why you’re hurt. However it does sound like you leant on them a lot and perhaps it wasn’t a very equal friendship from their perspective. Even with a straightforward birth and easy baby, becoming a mother is like a bomb going off under your life. It’s great to have friends to experience that with and share stories and the odd tear as well as lots of laughs, but very few women who have just become mums themselves will be in a position to provide significant emotional support to someone else who is really seriously struggling. Especially someone they have only recently met and where the only basis for the friendship is mutual pregnancy.

The fact that they were embarrassed and were later honest about the reasons makes me think they’re not nasty or bitchy mean girls. They probably just don’t feel able to provide the significant support you feel you need. And I can see why they might want to meet up and have fun and not be dragged down by a lot of negativity and counselling you. There are more appropriate outlets for your issues and it’s not fair to put so much on a group of other new mums.

Perhaps you can reach out to some other sources of support, then speak to them and apologise for leaning on them quite so much and explain that you’ve just been having a really hard time but value their friendship and would like to hang out still. Then try and see those get together a as a chance to have a laugh and enjoy the fun of mat leave, not as therapy sessions for yourself.

You clearly need support, as would anyone after what you’ve been through, but new NCT friendships aren’t an appropriate primary form of support. Good luck, I hope you can bounce back from this and not let it knock your confidence too much. We’ve all misjudged social situations before, don’t beat yourself up.

Good post, @SunnyFrost. The thing with NCT groups is that you barely know one another’s names before the handgrenade that is even a straightforward birth and newborn stage happens — they’re not the place for deep support, because everyone is strung out and virtual strangers. I had a really tough time, and one of my NCT group nearly died giving birth (was in a coma for a week), but neither of us went to the group for support. That was a combination of professional support, old friends and family, not brand-new acquaintances. I know some NCT groups become close friends, but we didn’t really gel.

Best wishes, and don’t let it knock your confidence, OP.

Original poster
Catguru · 23/05/2023 21:14

DMLady · 23/05/2023 21:11

I feel you’re getting a hard time on here, OP. But I can understand where you’re coming from — and I’d be hurt too. It doesn’t mean it’s you though — perhaps they just clicked in a way you & they haven’t (which could be for all kinds of reasons). It’s also possible that they’re just not very nice/understanding and you’re better off without them…

Totally agree haha- feels very harsh some of these replies and not sure everyone has taken time to read my updates.. oh well! Thank you for your reply, I have since met a lovely friend at soft play & another at the barbers whilst getting my DC first hair cut!

OP posts:
dontlookbackyourenotgoingthatway · 23/05/2023 21:16

What exactly is the point of NCT groups?

The classes are shite.

So if we're not allowed to lean on each other for support, why bother??

Anybody here considering NCT: save your money.

Yuja · 23/05/2023 21:20

I feel for you op, whether you are a 'moaner' or not, it's a bit playground-bitchy to leave 1 person out of a group meet up deliberately. That must feel horrible. Fwiw my NCT group were good to know at the start, but I made proper friends at a totally different, relaxed baby group at the children's centre. In your shoes I wouldn't dwell on this, but if you have any time at home with your DC try and go to a different toddler group/swim class/whatever as you may meet some other mums there.

Theypickedhim · 23/05/2023 21:23

Really sorry this happened to you, sounds horrible

Think of it like work colleagues
For awhile you had the same job (being on mat leave) and all got along
Now that stage has passed, you have left the job and will find new colleagues, different friends - especially when your DC starts nursery or school

JudgeRudy · 23/05/2023 21:24

It's maybe something in the middle. Perhaps you had a lot to contend with but also have a negative outlook. It can be very draining bring around negative people znd they don't seem to pick up on when you've lost interest.

Lucy377 · 23/05/2023 21:27

Well sorry this happened to you. It hurts. I had a similar situation. I had to look at it and realise that maybe, although I was included in the group, that my individual connections with people were not that strong.
I'd meet as a group but rarely meet just one of them for a coffee one to one. With WhatsApp nowadays that happens more easily. We can 'coast' on the edges and avoid taking friendship 'risks' by getting to know individual people better. Before we had group chats on our phones, someone, an individual would have to ring or text you and vice versa.
So don't be too hard in yourself. But also, look at cultivating and feeding your friendships a bit more. Focus on a few one to one chats rather than the big group.
You will be rewarded for that hopefully. Best of luck. Being a mum at home is lonely, but that stage doesn't last forever so take heart 😊

Original poster
Catguru · 23/05/2023 21:27

Theypickedhim · 23/05/2023 21:23

Really sorry this happened to you, sounds horrible

Think of it like work colleagues
For awhile you had the same job (being on mat leave) and all got along
Now that stage has passed, you have left the job and will find new colleagues, different friends - especially when your DC starts nursery or school

Love this comment. Thank you, has really put things into perspective.

OP posts:
Original poster
Catguru · 23/05/2023 21:32

Lucy377 · 23/05/2023 21:27

Well sorry this happened to you. It hurts. I had a similar situation. I had to look at it and realise that maybe, although I was included in the group, that my individual connections with people were not that strong.
I'd meet as a group but rarely meet just one of them for a coffee one to one. With WhatsApp nowadays that happens more easily. We can 'coast' on the edges and avoid taking friendship 'risks' by getting to know individual people better. Before we had group chats on our phones, someone, an individual would have to ring or text you and vice versa.
So don't be too hard in yourself. But also, look at cultivating and feeding your friendships a bit more. Focus on a few one to one chats rather than the big group.
You will be rewarded for that hopefully. Best of luck. Being a mum at home is lonely, but that stage doesn't last forever so take heart 😊

Another really good reply, thank you. I really think that is what happened here. I stayed relatively active in the group chat but don’t think I really made individual connections like the others!

OP posts:
Namechange828492 · 23/05/2023 21:41

That's tough op, i would have felt very awkward too.

Agree with others, NCT is such a weird thing/time. You stick together because it's kind of lonely on mat leave, but it's also intense and often not people you would gravitate towards. So it's often intense baby chat because you don't have common ground. There was one woman on my NCT who was way too stressful to be around and me and a couple of others made a sub-group of more relaxed meet ups (my child has the most severe "issues" in the group so I didnt really appreciate her anxiety) but to do all minus one i wouldn't do.

Finding mum friends can be hard as you have your kids in common but often little other common ground. Glad you have your proper friends still around you - those are the gals who will truly be there always! X

YouOKHun · 23/05/2023 21:57

I feel for you @Catguru. When I look back over my children’s childhoods from those NCT pre natal classes, baby groups, clinic appointments, toddler groups, nursery, parties, school, I can count probably five or six people who will always be enduring friendships. I don’t remember the names of anyone from the NCT. Sometimes giving birth at roughly the same time is not enough glue to bind us to others. We meet people at things like NCT when a bomb has basically gone off in our lives and we are all thrown together with vastly different backgrounds and with very different resources, support and experiences of birth. These women may not be very nice or they may be struggling in their own ways and not really have the bandwidth to be as supportive as perhaps they wanted to be or thought they could be.

I agree with a previous poster that some of these groups can have a strange competitive dynamic and sometimes it’s better to cut your losses and move on to other groups. Along the way you will find pleasant acquaintances and one or two life long friends who share your values and with whom you have a lot in common.

MaybeBabyTwo · 23/05/2023 22:05

NICU parents need NICU parent friends for this exact reason. 'Normal' parents don't get it, can't empathise and I often found actually don't want to be tainted by my horrendous experience. It SUCKS for you OP when you didn't do anything to deserve your experience, but ultimately I've just found that NICU/Paeds kids and their parents just don't mix well and bond as well with the non-NICU/Paeds mums.

Can you have a look at NICU specific groups around you? You may find that your hospital has a baby group or support group etc. Especially a L3 unit should have some connection type resources available. I have also found Instagram to be a wealth of resource - start with miraclemoon and go from there.

There is a whole world of mums who will understand and who won't leave you out in a coffee shop.... when you've had a tough time it's harder to find your true tribe but they're out there. Xx

P.S. my NCT group, I eventually got to one of their meet ups after missing loads because we were in hospital. Eventually made it and was already feeling like a right lemon as they were all so much closer and bonding over their normal experiences.... when one mum said to me, "so.... what did you do WRONG?" As if it had all been my fault!! I left the group that afternoon and never spoke to any of them again, except one who made an effort to keep in touch with me the whole way through our experience.

Rogue1001MNer · 23/05/2023 22:09

AndTheSurveySays · 23/05/2023 20:16

No one likes a moaner.

Nasty and unnecessary.
Please have a Biscuit

ittakes2 · 23/05/2023 22:15

Catguru · 23/05/2023 21:32

Another really good reply, thank you. I really think that is what happened here. I stayed relatively active in the group chat but don’t think I really made individual connections like the others!

Show quote history

Sorry this has happened to you - your last comments have made me wonder what the age gap is between you and the mums? I think that the younger generations have different social expectations from social communication - with my children being active in a group chat is connections...but with my age group its more individual connections. I have often marveled at how my children's generation see group communication differently to me...how it has evolved for them because lets face it this whole social communication thing has only really come to the extent it has in the last generation or so.

Highfivemum · 23/05/2023 22:24

I am sorry that this has happened to you. You are probably best away from the group to be honest.
at some stage one of the other mums will need a bit of reassurance support etc and I hope they don’t push them out of the group too like they did you.
I know from being a mum of 6 sometimes these groups just don’t work. Some mums sit in their happy bubble and don’t see others. Little do they realise that that bubble can burst anytime and then their the ones needed extra support.
I only am in touch with one group of mums from my 4th child. A fab group and throughout the years we have ALL relied on each other. Teething / hospital / bed wetting you name it. The difference with this group is we all support each other. I so hope you find a group like that. As for the others just ignore them.

Mariposista · 23/05/2023 22:28

Honestly OP I would rather sit on a cactus than go to groups like this. They're more often than not full of women like this with far too much time on their hands who need to get back to work and stop acting like a bunch of spiteful cliquey 14 year olds in a school playground.
Get some professional counselling to come to terms with your bad experience, and enjoy spending time with your actual friends and family. Don't waste another second thinking about them.

Minimalme · 23/05/2023 22:28

Christ, they sound awful op. Having a baby brings you together with people you wouldn't normally be friends with. You have no shared history and everyone is hyper focusing on their own experience.

As your baby grows you will make lots of new friends and one or two will stick and you be mates for life.

Thank these women for their criticism because it has made you realise they have been making you feel unhappy, hence the moaning. Or just tell them to fuck off. Of both.

User1367349 · 23/05/2023 22:30

Look, it’s a total bloody nightmare having a sick child in hospital and no one gets it until it’s them dealing with it. Your first post I think wasn’t particularly accurate about the situation, you in fact don’t sound like you burdened anyone inappropriately, but it may be that because you had different experiences or worries that the group (or potentially one or two ring leaders) distanced themselves a bit.

Of course you are hurt. Of course it feels like shit. But to be honest, I don’t know many people currently with 0-5s whose NCT groups didn’t either dramatically go to hell in a handcart with ridiculous factions, or quietly fizzle out as people moved away, became busy etc. I feel incredibly lucky to have made one good friend and a couple of acquaintances that I’d say hi to in the street,
despite some ridiculous nonsense from some group members.

You have other friends, you will make
other friends. The “am I crap at making mum friends” is just another version of mum guilt. You haven’t failed your child. It will all be fine.

Ignore any bitchy comments on here, mumsnet has an obsession with not being a burden to others whereas if I’d known tou in real life I’m sure we would have supported each other at different times. Chin up. Move on. They should be embarrassed not you.

User1367349 · 23/05/2023 22:33

MaybeBabyTwo · 23/05/2023 22:05

NICU parents need NICU parent friends for this exact reason. 'Normal' parents don't get it, can't empathise and I often found actually don't want to be tainted by my horrendous experience. It SUCKS for you OP when you didn't do anything to deserve your experience, but ultimately I've just found that NICU/Paeds kids and their parents just don't mix well and bond as well with the non-NICU/Paeds mums.

Can you have a look at NICU specific groups around you? You may find that your hospital has a baby group or support group etc. Especially a L3 unit should have some connection type resources available. I have also found Instagram to be a wealth of resource - start with miraclemoon and go from there.

There is a whole world of mums who will understand and who won't leave you out in a coffee shop.... when you've had a tough time it's harder to find your true tribe but they're out there. Xx

P.S. my NCT group, I eventually got to one of their meet ups after missing loads because we were in hospital. Eventually made it and was already feeling like a right lemon as they were all so much closer and bonding over their normal experiences.... when one mum said to me, "so.... what did you do WRONG?" As if it had all been my fault!! I left the group that afternoon and never spoke to any of them again, except one who made an effort to keep in touch with me the whole way through our experience.

There’s a lot of truth in this.

NoIncomeTaxNoVAT · 23/05/2023 22:37

Ah, OP, try not to take it to heart. Just move on. I think of NCT as like school - you might not get on with everyone in the class but if you meet a friend then thats all the better. Once your DC is at playgroup or nursery or whatever, there'll be lots of opportunities to make new mum friends. Try some free library singing type sessions in the meantime if you want to get out and about more 😊

I also had a poorly baby at birth (2 weeks in NICU) and subsequent PND and i also think that if you haven't been through that situation, other mums in their newborn bubble really don't appreciate how much of an impact it will have had on your early days. I remember just not understanding how easy some of my NCT group were finding everything until my wonderful DH pointed out that they hadnt seen their newborn nearly die. I felt like i couldnt even talk about our experience too much in case it upset them (how ridiculous of me). In any case, i think their messages to you were unnecessarily harsh.

Hope your little one is doing well now 💐

NoIncomeTaxNoVAT · 23/05/2023 22:40

MaybeBabyTwo · 23/05/2023 22:05

NICU parents need NICU parent friends for this exact reason. 'Normal' parents don't get it, can't empathise and I often found actually don't want to be tainted by my horrendous experience. It SUCKS for you OP when you didn't do anything to deserve your experience, but ultimately I've just found that NICU/Paeds kids and their parents just don't mix well and bond as well with the non-NICU/Paeds mums.

Can you have a look at NICU specific groups around you? You may find that your hospital has a baby group or support group etc. Especially a L3 unit should have some connection type resources available. I have also found Instagram to be a wealth of resource - start with miraclemoon and go from there.

There is a whole world of mums who will understand and who won't leave you out in a coffee shop.... when you've had a tough time it's harder to find your true tribe but they're out there. Xx

P.S. my NCT group, I eventually got to one of their meet ups after missing loads because we were in hospital. Eventually made it and was already feeling like a right lemon as they were all so much closer and bonding over their normal experiences.... when one mum said to me, "so.... what did you do WRONG?" As if it had all been my fault!! I left the group that afternoon and never spoke to any of them again, except one who made an effort to keep in touch with me the whole way through our experience.

Great post ^^

And yes yes to meeting other NICU mums. The NICU that my DD was in does a monthly coffee morning for NICU grads and mums of any age. They usually advertise it on the hospital insta page. Maybe see if your one does something similar?

Blandfan · 23/05/2023 22:40

In all honesty I’d say you didn’t know these women (you say girls but I assume they’re not children) and then you went through a traumatic time and leant on them - which probably felt heavy to them when they just wanted to enjoy their new babies. It’s not fair but it’s understandable. Now you’ve moved past that time, move on, find a new gang and don’t dwell on it. They didn’t not like you, it was just the situation.

TunnocksOrDeath · 23/05/2023 22:40

Happening to get pregnant the same month in the same borough is not the deepest connection on which to found a lifelong friendship really. So it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you, or them, if it didn't happen. I'd bet the friends you already had before all this would love to see more of you, precisely because they knew and cared about you, because of who you are, even before you had a baby. They don't need to have lived your experience to support you, because they already understand you, and you can do the same for them.

Missjkay · 23/05/2023 22:42

If they were decent friends they would have advised you it was to much and to seek professional help. I wouldn’t want to be their friend after that. I’m sorry you had a tough time.

Ollifer · 23/05/2023 22:44

I met two friends through NCT and we used to meet up quite regularly, kids were friends as toddlers etc. Anyway they kind of drifted and I messaged our group chat a few times about meeting and they were always busy. I did ask a couple of times if everything was okay and if I'd done anything as I just didn't believe they were busy every time I suggested anything but they said everything was fine. Anyway, I ended up getting a Facebook account to contact a relative, added one of the friends and saw that they had been meeting together with the children and alone for around 18 months and hiding it. They'd even been on a family holiday together!

I was deeply hurt, I felt so stupid and embarrassed. I messaged the group chat and then left and I've never spoken to them again. I wish they'd have just been straight with me. I moved on and now know it wasn't an issue with me and I try not to take it personally. But it's shit op.