To think no she shouldn’t get a British passport

[Lillonely]

I’m prepared to be told I’m BU here

you might have read my other MIL threads here, feel free to search.

the bare bones are, asian family (Pakistani, myself included) MIL cant speak English, never worked, never made any attempt to. FIL is a Prince and brought her here and in affect ditched her to swan off with second wife (cough mistress cough. Both MIL and FIL left dh from early teens to earn for the house hold and then be the breadwinner at 16. The boy had holes in shoes and an empty tummy and she never attempted to work. Still wants to be provided for, won’t do anything.

but now she wants a British passport, and there are loopholes. I actually think no, you shouldn’t have one, settled status fine but not citizenship. My parents and grandparents were grafters, integrated, and didn’t expect anything for free and took pride in taking the citizen ship exams and studying and passing not just wanting handouts. I mean I wouldn’t expect to go to France, Germany, uae and them to hand me a passport and citizenship and not bother to even learn the language. Aibu to think get it the legit way or don’t bother. She’s got nothing nice to say about Brits or British culture or anything so why would you want a part of it? I feel it’s crap like this that gives British Muslims a bad name.

aibu and am I letting our history (she’s not very nice to me or my family despite us trying to help her) cloud by judgment?

What do you mean Scots who don't speak English but are still British citizens?

Yes I agree with this. I understand op needs to rant but I think she thought by posting on a predominantly white forum she would get an echo chamber by mentioning the not speaking English thing, she must’ve known she would attract some racists/anti immigrant types but thankfully most mumsnetters I’ve come across aren’t like that.

Op is not a victim here like so many women are, her husband is on her side, she doesn’t live with her mil so I wonder why she’s has not put any boundaries in place. I have seen women of my generation in my community who can easily put boundaries in place but prefer to look respectable in the community but are happy to backbite and feel superior when they have the power to cut the BS out. I’m not talking about the victims of dv who have married into abusive households who have no choice but to interact with these people and do them favours.

this culture of obligation and martyrdom in our communities is what causes resentment for many so if you have the choice why not save yourself the headache and drama and say enough or create a distance where you’re not the first person they contact. If her husband is not creating the boundaries then op has a Dh problem not a mil problem, it doesn’t matter how batshit she is, if there are boundaries she won’t need to deal with it.

I had toxic in laws with no boundaries, it was clearly a Dh problem but because of the situation I was in I had to tackle the in laws first and I did that by standing up to them, which did not make me very popular in the wider circle but the peace I got was worth it. But then maybe I just don’t have the time and energy for unnecessary drama from in laws, it has done wonders for my mental health so maybe op needs to do that rather than posting multiple posts about her on here. And im not silencing you op, you’re free to post what you want but it’s for your own sanity and it’s better for your soul, look at it as a form of self care.

Yeah sorry but I’m south asian (not Pakistani) my mum worked, my MIL worked, all my/DH aunts worked (except the loaded one). I don’t know anyone in my family 60 or under who didn’t work. Between our grans though only one worked. I’ve come across quite a few non english speaking women who worked often hard jobs in factories.

OP’s MIL is uniquely awful tbh, she won’t even claim benefits. Suggesting your son and DIL sell their family home to release equity to look after you is just taking the piss. They have kids fgs. you should help your family, absolutely, but this is not help. This is someone who has abdicated any responsibility for themselves completely. She is determined to make sure her son takes care of her to the point of harming herself.

Women of that generation who never learned english often do need more support because of language difficulties. I know one person who’s dad abandoned them when they were very young, their mum got a job as a seamstress to support her family, she must be in her late 80’s now.

How many British learnt to speak hindi when they went to live in India?
Quite a few actually, if you read any histories of the Raj. It's a terrible example though.

You sound ridiculous. The woman has done exactly what you said, gone to live in a country, not speaking the language. It's not about doing that, clearly she has managed to do that. It's about gaining citizenship despite not speaking the language. Do you think you can do that in France? Of course you can't, it is impossible. Even if you are elderly, you are still expected to speak French. Why have such low standards for Britain? Of course people should speak English (or another language native to the British Isles, why not, I bet you can do it in Welsh) if they want to be British. It's not about living in Britain, it's about being British.

of course I’m not a victim in the extreme sense that we sometimes here, dv and living with in-laws and more dv, forced marriage. But I do feel like I get victimised, I’ve been spat at and once had things thrown at in the street, rumours started about me that spread like wildfire (adultery and child not being dhs) for going against the community and disobeying her (not living with her and not wearing the all black abaya and face cover). We ended up moving. But DH still does have to provide some support to MIL and he does his best to assert boundaries but it’s a process for him, only son (I’m sure you know the pressure that’s on him)
it took me a while, but there are boundaries in place, one huge one included moving. But there is a trickle down effect and things always find a way back.

i actually don’t find MN to be a particularly racist place, there are some anti Muslims (particularly with clothes ) but that’s not come out here. I actually have no where else to turn. My parents and family have washed their hands of the situation after years of trying to help, even finding a job that would’ve paid her a decent amount for literally nothing. You can’t talk in the community because it’s hushed up, my friends have never encountered anything like this before

It used to be possible to get someone to sit your test. No way to pretend it wasn't happening.
I sat LIT recently and they were really proper on ID check and absolutely nothing on you that could be used to cheat (eg, someone dictating you answers). I was even scanned with the metal detector thing. From what I heard checks were solid on the B1 english test too.
Pretty sure it is still possible if someone pays the staff, but there is never just one person afaik.

I’m sorry OP they sound horrific. ah I see what you mean OP wrt moving away as a boundary. That’s different to what I was thinking -I thought that you’ve lived away from the outset. But thank god you don’t live with her. Honestly spitting at you would be enough for me so I don’t understand why you just don’t cut things off with her? You can still support your Dh dealing with her without interacting with her directly? They clearly have no fear and they certainly wouldn’t treat a man like this would they. Once she knows you’ve cut off from her she knows she has no option whereas at the moment she thinks you’re an extension of her husband and expect you to be ‘good daughter in law’ you l really should not have to put up with that.

Thanks @Thesunnymood I had no idea.

The only true gaeltacht areas where people might not speak English on a daily basis are in the Republic of Ireland. Most of the people who live there speak English fluently because, y'know, education. Try being a visitor there having a go at speaking Irish. You'll be replied to in English. Any who only speak Irish are likely to be older generations.
I would disagree that 'many' Irish do not speak English. And they are not British citizens, they're Irish.

Also correct me if I'm wrong (I'm Irish & I admit I don't know much about Scotland) but isn't Scots Gaelic much less widely spoken than Gaeilge? If so, isn't it unlikely that there are many Scots who don't speak English?

As far as I'm aware Welsh is the most widely spoken of the remaining Celtic languages.
Anyway, I don't mean to derail, but you'll forgive me if I took umbrage at Irish people being referred to as British citizens.

As with every job, there's the possibility of backhanders. In the 30 years I've been in the job one former colleague went to prison for issuing docs under false pretences and one was dismissed on the spot for doing a police check on himself. Idiot.

It's not impossible to get someone to sit either a language test or Life in Britain test. It would need a pretty complex chain of events though. As the application cases are dealt with in office A, the language test is administered by completely independent organisation B (which would lose its accreditation to administer tests for the govt if there were any question of wrongdoing) (and has also recently introduced the stipulation that if your language test is for immigration or nationality, the people overseeing the exam photograph you in the exam centre for cross referencing purposes) but overseen for immigration purposes by office C.

Back in the day when I started at the Home Office there were dodgy immigration lawyers galore, and a lot of bogus language schools certifying attendance for immigration purposes, but things are much tighter now.

So every over 65yr old foreigner can get a passport?
I wouldn't incest in this to much you cannot change the rules just don't help her

Not incest , invest auto correct

No you just don't need to do the test, you still need to apply and fullfil criteria. You don't just get it with nothing

Nice try OP. SMDH

@Lillonely the only thing i can advise in this situation is for you to turn to your local Imam/ Mufti.

If you try to argue about the situation on your own it will probably make things worse as you said you were put through alot in the past for speaking out and was slandered etc.

What would happen is the Mufti/Imam would then deal with the situation including the three of you and discuss what the best option is based on everyones interests and taking your situation into consideration etc.

Obviously no decision would be made against you as this would need to be done in a fair manner so if you are as oppressed and simply unable to fulfil her requests as they do not benefit you financially as you say then they would make a decision based on that situation.

I think thats the best way to go about it rather than asking for everyones opinions on here because that is not going to help the actual situation you are in. Yes people will tell you this and that but it wont change the problem you are facing.

The other thing you could do is contact the Islamic sharia council (there are many around UK, i went to the one in Birmingham over 10 years ago because just like you I was pressurised into an arranged marriage in my teens that was filled with months of physical abuse from my now ex and I used the Islamic sharia council to help me out of that and get a divorce, they were excellent) and Alhamdulillah I managed to move on and have a good marriage now.

They also deal with family matters etc. And will help you with your problem. They will possibly ask you to come with your Husband and your Mother in law and will discuss whatever problems you need and any debates or arguments. Maybe after seeing the decisions made by the Islamic councils your MIL might accept what they advise her as they are regarded as having the final say in matters when it comes to pakistani culture. She cant have a say above them and nor can anyone else as they are highly educated in sharia law etc.

As I said earlier though, there is no use posting it on here and replaying the situation in your head because that is not healthy mentally nor physically for you etc.

I don’t know what this means

This isn’t a sharia issue though, plus as you know law of the land comes first. The shura council at Bham central mosque is normally for divorce and areas of marital dispute.

we actually did have an intervention years ago with someone senior at her local mosque after the street harassment following us moving out. It’s not happened since. They advised living separately is better as long as DH gives his mum her rights. Which he does. Obviously she’d disagree but he does his best.

you are right though, ruminating on things does keep them spinning in your head. Although I’ve not noticed a similar style response on the other ranty threads. It does come across (to me at least) as a way of still silencing those who speak out

Stop trying to please everyone, especially when your heart is not in it. I don’t think it matters at all that you’re Pakistani or Muslim or white English Black or Dutch! This woman has a husband. Whether she likes it or not. She should live with him. That is her home. This is your kingdom and you have every right to be the queen in your castle. Not downgraded to a maid.

It does not matter one inch what she has gone through. If her plan was to live with you she should have made efforts to be with you and get on with you. Protect yourself, your family (your children and your dh)

Tell her in plain English (aherm!) that you wish her well but you do not want to accommodate her in YOUR home.

Lionely

“. But your husband has a responsibility towards her (unfortunately) and if he has any brothers they have to as well.”

Why?