To think no she shouldn’t get a British passport

[Lillonely]

I’m prepared to be told I’m BU here

you might have read my other MIL threads here, feel free to search.

the bare bones are, asian family (Pakistani, myself included) MIL cant speak English, never worked, never made any attempt to. FIL is a Prince and brought her here and in affect ditched her to swan off with second wife (cough mistress cough. Both MIL and FIL left dh from early teens to earn for the house hold and then be the breadwinner at 16. The boy had holes in shoes and an empty tummy and she never attempted to work. Still wants to be provided for, won’t do anything.

but now she wants a British passport, and there are loopholes. I actually think no, you shouldn’t have one, settled status fine but not citizenship. My parents and grandparents were grafters, integrated, and didn’t expect anything for free and took pride in taking the citizen ship exams and studying and passing not just wanting handouts. I mean I wouldn’t expect to go to France, Germany, uae and them to hand me a passport and citizenship and not bother to even learn the language. Aibu to think get it the legit way or don’t bother. She’s got nothing nice to say about Brits or British culture or anything so why would you want a part of it? I feel it’s crap like this that gives British Muslims a bad name.

aibu and am I letting our history (she’s not very nice to me or my family despite us trying to help her) cloud by judgment?

Yes it’s very much how you’ve said.

im not sure if it’s a learning difficulty or maybe never being presented with the opportunity to learn, could be either I don’t know but you are right, both could render her operating at the level of a child. She tried to get PIP so she didn’t have to sign on but they didn’t believe she had barriers to stop her working, but we all know PIP is notoriously harsh.

after all these years, I’ve really tried and it does hurt your heart to have things thrown back in your face, insulted etc when things don’t go that persons way. This is just another one of those, combined with the fact that we have to support her financially when we can’t afford to, or work out ways to support her.

you feel superior to her just because you were born in Britain and speak English.

well that’s not racism, that would be prejudice.

but no, I’m not better because of where I was born. It’s not about anyone being superior or inferior. It’s about unrealistic demands, that actually don’t stop, selling my house to fund her, magicking this up now, not having the correct amount of children etc

I’d definitely look at counselling to help you both with boundaries (you and your husband). She’s got a husband to support her. If he doesn’t then it’s not for you to step in. Even if there’s community/mosque pressure there’s an easy come back of FIL isn’t being a good husband to her, they should speak to him.
I’d limit contact and not entertain any conversation re supporting her. It’s ok to say no I’m not supporting you financially or practically.

I also have a friend with pakistani heritage who says exactly this!

Refer her to your DH so he can help her, and don't give this issue any more head space.

But as you’ve seen on this thread we can’t speak up or even moan about things, we get silenced

@SugarNspices thats how it was done back then. Alot of children worked. You go to pakistan and Morocco now and you will find some 10 year old kids selling packs of tissues and flowers.
Unfortunately things cant always be the same everywhere in the world. It is not normal for kids to do that here but it was normal for kods to work like that there.
My husband did go to school and managed to get excellent education and became and english teacher in Morocco and I am proud of him.
But as i said, things are different in other countries and you probably cant see why because you dont have experience in living in those countries like i have and are used to how things work in the UK and other western countries.

His mother was having to cook and take care of the other smaller kids so she had no option and in those countries in those days women were harassed by men very easily especially if they had no man to protect them.
Before she had kids my MIL tried to work as a maid for a distant relative but a couple of days into her job one of the men tried to rape her.

The police and the law in those countries at that time was even lousier than it is now. So women just stayed at home for the fear of their safety and honor.

@Lillonely it is best for your husband to decide. I am not saying you should make the decisions for her and you should look after her. But your husband has a responsibility towards her (unfortunately) and if he has any brothers they have to as well.
You cant just ignore her and leave her.
If she asks you to do something then either tell your husband what she asked you so he can do it or just tell her to tell your husband to do it.

You dont know how long she will be around for but it wont be forever. Rather than cutting her off i would say try and find another way around what she wants so that nobody gets hurts. I understand how she might act, as i have a pakistani background myself, moreover i have lived in the village there for years so have dealt with some really stubborn women and aunties and one thing i know is that they say some horrible and nasty things without thinking.

As i said though, try not to get involved yourself and just leave it to your husband.
At the end of the day she is just a really lonely old woman who has to live with the stigma of her husband having ran away with a mistress. Who knows what goes on in her head all day when she is alone.

Maybe she just needs a companion and she will stop being how she is. It may sound bizarre to you if your family is still stuck in the old times but maybe find her another man. (My aunty who loves in pakistan lost her husband in a car accident and married again at 55 and she is alot happier now).

The family may moan about it at first but trust me they will accept it and she will be happier too. Maybe slip the idea to your husband and see what he thinks.

She’d never divorce FIL no way so another man is zina, so that’s not an option.

well shari’a wise it is her husband’s responsibility to keep her and maintain her, but he doesn’t care so it’s fallen on dh. But he can only do so much. He has no siblings. He cannot keep two households, it’s a burden to large for him to carry, especially with cost of living. Point is what she wants is not to work or claim, but to be kept no matter the cost- and I nor dh can make that happen for her. She wants me to sort her a passport which I cannot do and will not try anything dodgy to make happen. She wants that now. And there is no alternative that she is willing to accept nor listen to reason as DH has explained.

and btw they were living here when she made her child go out and work to provide for her when he was doing his GCSEs. He started out his life in mountains of debt, having borrowed money from some very dangerous people to put a kitchen into his house. What 15 year old in the UK has to do that? Yes Pakistan and morocco as they are developing countries, these sort of things do happen but not in the UK and here is abuse.

See this is what’s wrong when people start calling racism! This woman is from Pakistani heritage, with all the knowledge, understanding and life experience around that and yet she’s not allowed to say what’s happening because if she does she’s racist 🤦‍♀️ For what it’s worth OP , regarding this problem, stick to your guns and don’t do it.

So just tell her to speak to her son. Any time she mentions it, refer back to your husband. Problem solved.

You can still be racist to people of your own race and your own ethnic group. Pakistanis have been charged with racial aggravated offences even when the victim was also the same type of Pakistani background.

Ok then, I’m racist to some groups of white people then. Now do you realise how ridiculous you sound?

Sure but that’s Shadism isn’t it, gori chiti etc but I’m not criticising anyone based on the skin colour, caste or anything.

there is a lot of hush hush in our community, I think online it’s because we do as a whole, get a hard time in the public image, so most of us don’t want to further do any damage, but this also happens privately in the community with other social issues, people don’t speak up due to honour and ‘what will people say’- it’s why a lot of crap like coercive marriages and domestic abuse happen and no one wants to talk about.

How is that a ridiculous concept? If you hate your own people you’re still a racist.

It's more that she wouldn't be getting it the right way (legal?) than anything else really because if she qualifies for it, there's really nothing you can do. Anything else is your angst towarsds her as a person and It's understandable but shouldn't stop her from getting what she is qualified for, if she is.

How do you get citizenship by cheating? Wouldn't she have to go through the exam and test or something?

There is an English test for non-English speakers and life in the UK test.

Sounds like the sort of thing Suella Braverman would ask someone to do.

I agree with you. I think a lot of us get concerned when issues are raised with white people because we already have such a rubbish reputation here and it’ll feel like we are just playing into the hands of white racists, instead of diverting the energy into other Pakistanis and sorting our issues out.

Wow! 😲

I mean I'm not surprised but still shocked that this sort of thing still happens.

The change starts from birth. It’s up to us to stop toxic cultural practices and associated mentalities from being carried on from one generation to the next. It’s up to us to improve our reputation and to ensure our children are socialised as such. Asian communities have a huge problem with boundaries and correcting elders, it’s seen as disrespectful which has allowed us to be walked all over and take abuse and shit just because they’re older. It has to come from the Asian community.

If she is entitled to getting a citizenship she has the right to ask you or your husband to do it.

I'dve thought surely that's illegal, isn't it? For someone to get someone else to sit the test for them. I mean, she can ask but she's asking people to do something illegal. They do not morally have to do that- quite the opposite really.

I've heard that people get relatives to sit their driving test, too.