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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think no she shouldn’t get a British passport

195 replies

Lillonely · 22/05/2023 21:16

I’m prepared to be told I’m BU here

you might have read my other MIL threads here, feel free to search.

the bare bones are, asian family (Pakistani, myself included) MIL cant speak English, never worked, never made any attempt to. FIL is a Prince and brought her here and in affect ditched her to swan off with second wife (cough mistress cough. Both MIL and FIL left dh from early teens to earn for the house hold and then be the breadwinner at 16. The boy had holes in shoes and an empty tummy and she never attempted to work. Still wants to be provided for, won’t do anything.

but now she wants a British passport, and there are loopholes. I actually think no, you shouldn’t have one, settled status fine but not citizenship. My parents and grandparents were grafters, integrated, and didn’t expect anything for free and took pride in taking the citizen ship exams and studying and passing not just wanting handouts. I mean I wouldn’t expect to go to France, Germany, uae and them to hand me a passport and citizenship and not bother to even learn the language. Aibu to think get it the legit way or don’t bother. She’s got nothing nice to say about Brits or British culture or anything so why would you want a part of it? I feel it’s crap like this that gives British Muslims a bad name.

aibu and am I letting our history (she’s not very nice to me or my family despite us trying to help her) cloud by judgment?

OP posts:
SwitchDiver · 22/05/2023 23:19

sheldonia · 22/05/2023 23:07

No you really don't. That's utter bollocks. For one you have ZERO Irish people who can't speak English but are British citizens. Not a fucking one.

There isn't even anyone Irish in Ireland who doesn't speak English. That's not a thing that has existed for generations, ffs.
What horseshit.

Show quote history

As of 30 Sept 2020 according to Gov.U.K.:
0.94% of Irish Travellers cannot speak English
3.27% of Irish Travellers do not speak English well
🤷‍♀️

Mummylovesmonkeys · 22/05/2023 23:21

Lillonely · 22/05/2023 21:35

I’m not entirely sure what she wants, I think she might want me to sit the exam for her? Or to pull some strings Dsis is a solicitor… but obviously both are stupid and I have 0 away over anything. I’ve said no, but obv she thinks I’m being very u

Show quote history

Unless you are a dead ringer for her, and share her fingerprints, there is no chance of this. Biometrics are taken (fingerprints, photographs, etc)

And who is paying for all of this? It's not cheap to apply to live in the UK.

sheldonia · 22/05/2023 23:27

SwitchDiver · 22/05/2023 23:19

As of 30 Sept 2020 according to Gov.U.K.:
0.94% of Irish Travellers cannot speak English
3.27% of Irish Travellers do not speak English well
🤷‍♀️

Show quote history

Lol.

No.

0.94% of travellers told a fella with a clipboard they don't speak English, maybe. Irish travellers speak English.

And btw, if they are British citizens, they are British. Not Irish.

porridgeisbae · 22/05/2023 23:27

People do call it a citizenship exam/test (one of my exes called it that and she was the one sitting it as a former refugee.)

porridgeisbae · 22/05/2023 23:31

And btw, if they are British citizens, they are British. Not Irish.

Of course someone can be a British citizen and still have whatever nationality/heritage that they identify with. My ex is Jamaican born and bred and also a British citizen etc (due to fleeing after a serious homophobic knife attack.)

There seems to be a lot of (hopefully faux) naivete on this thread.

DunkingMyDonuts · 22/05/2023 23:33

sheldonia · 22/05/2023 23:07

No you really don't. That's utter bollocks. For one you have ZERO Irish people who can't speak English but are British citizens. Not a fucking one.

There isn't even anyone Irish in Ireland who doesn't speak English. That's not a thing that has existed for generations, ffs.
What horseshit.

Show quote history

You said so well what I was thinking!

@SwitchDiver you have made yourself look an idiot with that post

sheldonia · 22/05/2023 23:34

porridgeisbae · 22/05/2023 23:31

And btw, if they are British citizens, they are British. Not Irish.

Of course someone can be a British citizen and still have whatever nationality/heritage that they identify with. My ex is Jamaican born and bred and also a British citizen etc (due to fleeing after a serious homophobic knife attack.)

There seems to be a lot of (hopefully faux) naivete on this thread.

Clearly you did not follow the context through the comments. You can't just jump on to one, you have to read them all to see what is meant.

DunkingMyDonuts · 22/05/2023 23:37

SwitchDiver · 22/05/2023 23:19

As of 30 Sept 2020 according to Gov.U.K.:
0.94% of Irish Travellers cannot speak English
3.27% of Irish Travellers do not speak English well
🤷‍♀️

Show quote history

You fancy buying some magic beans @SwitchDiver ??! They are real - honestly!

Original poster
Lillonely · 22/05/2023 23:37

Mummylovesmonkeys · 22/05/2023 23:21

Unless you are a dead ringer for her, and share her fingerprints, there is no chance of this. Biometrics are taken (fingerprints, photographs, etc)

And who is paying for all of this? It's not cheap to apply to live in the UK.

Show quote history

Precisely, so it’s completely ill conceived.

that’s another thing, the actual test itself isn’t cheap and then there’s the solicitors fees on top, she’d expect us to pay

OP posts:
cashmerecow · 22/05/2023 23:46

You really don't like your MIL do you? Do you want her to go back to her homeland? You sound very selfish, probably why she dislikes you....

Haywirecity · 22/05/2023 23:50

MrsTerryPratchett · 22/05/2023 23:17

I’m a native English speaker with four degrees in Eng Lit, an interest in history and well-informed on current affairs who’d lived in the UK for 25 years, and when a Finnish colleague was studying for the ‘Life in the UK’ test, I did a mock one online out of curiosity — and failed. No idea how many are on a cricket team, or how many sit in the House of Lords…

Precisely @EmptyBedBlues

It gives the impression of having been written by someone white, male, studied the Classics, likes cricket and thinks England's (and I do mean England's) Golden Age was centuries ago. And that knowing the dates and quantities and numbers is all much more important that WHY things happened and WHY they're important. Although I think the current shower probably would rather people know the date of the Magna Carta, rather than the principle that power should have limits.

You can study to the test but it's not useful or relevant to most people.

Maybe you two just got particularly hard tests. Because I taught a student who was struggling to pass at E1 and he managed to pass his citizenship test. And he really wasn't a that lucky person.

sheldonia · 22/05/2023 23:50

cashmerecow · 22/05/2023 23:46

You really don't like your MIL do you? Do you want her to go back to her homeland? You sound very selfish, probably why she dislikes you....

Why should she like her? And how the fuck does she sound selfish in any way?

newwings · 22/05/2023 23:53

Classic call for Pakistani Politics here. It's wrong you shouldn't have to and it's probably not in your nature as clearly you find the act of fraud offensive but it will appease all parties. Especially the emotional family guilt/ responsibilities us Pakistani's get saddled with. Be seen to be trying your best to help but do the oh no I've explored so many angles to help you blah blah.. Trust me she will have some relative that will get it sorted for her!

A straight no to a family member in need is like the ultimate crime in our culture, be smart and divert. YANBU x

Ihatepickingausername3 · 22/05/2023 23:56

I’m only still awake because I have a poorly child but glad In this instance that I looked back to read the updates.

I want to 100% point out that you aren’t selfish in this instance and you don’t have to like her. Pretty sure I’ve read your past threads on your MIL. Context is everything.

You are far too busy to help! Be unavailable! And no I bloody wouldn’t help her cheat either!

Original poster
Lillonely · 22/05/2023 23:59

sheldonia · 22/05/2023 23:50

Why should she like her? And how the fuck does she sound selfish in any way?

Show quote history

^this right here, the problem

OP posts:
Haywirecity · 23/05/2023 00:01

SwitchDiver · 22/05/2023 21:51

Ok, so do you know that in the U.K. we have many Irish, Welsh and Scots that also do not speak English but are still British citizens?

Show quote history

What's that got to do with the price of fish? Most uk citizens are automatically British because of their parents. It doesn't matter what language they speak.

magma32 · 23/05/2023 00:14

Hi op I think I remember your previous posts. I’m from similar background so completely empathise regarding the mil. I could write a memoirs on my experiences. However, I must add I know lots of Pakistani women who don’t know English, not cos they didn’t want to learn, it was the cultural conditioning that told them their place was at home serving the husband. And the fact her husband dumped her for another woman shows how entitled he was and can imagine him controlling that aspect of her life so as she got older not being able to speak English, she didn’t have the confidence to look for work especially as the culture tells women the husbands and sons need to provide so I think you should cut her some slack here unless you know facts as your Dh will only understand so much of it so I do think you’re dislike of her is making you judge her when you probably shouldn’t. Ditto with comparing her to your family. I had similar mindset to you wrt why the heck are some of our people so bone idle but now that I’ve spent a lot of time around these people many have been is shit situations, came to towns that went to shit post manufacturing and afterwards lack of opportunity compared to other families who manage to integrate as they found opportunities in more prosperous locations. It really isn’t as simple as you think for the women, the men have the privilege and the women were on the receiving end of it more so when they came to this country as they were out of their comfort zone. I personally think you need to create some healthy distance as it’s not good for your soul to spend this much energy on her, trust me I’ve been there. And no, certainly don’t cheat for her, just make some excuses up and leave her to it. It isn’t your problem and if she wants a passport if the government think she’s entitled to it then she is entitled to it as long as nobody is cheating. But if she persists you or Dh need to find a polite way of telling her to spin on it no.

BadNomad · 23/05/2023 00:17

Oh I remember her! Late 50s, refuses to work, refuses to apply for benefits, refused to use public transport, refuses to learn English, your DH has been financially responsible for her since he was a teenager, and she doesn't like you because you are the wrong type of Asian.

It's very understandable that you don't like her. She's quite delusional about how the world works. This passport thing is just another example of that. Just tell her no, it's not possible.

Itawapuddytat · 23/05/2023 00:34

I am a naturalized British citizen ( through marriage, DH is Scottish, born in UK). I didn't need the Life in UK exam for ILR, but definitely needed it for naturalization ( I could apply for this one year after obtaining the ILR). That was about 17 years ago .

HoneyBunnii · 23/05/2023 02:20

@Lillonely I am a person of pakistani ethnicity and I feel disgusted reading this post.

You are saying she should have worked etc. And that your husband had to work when he was 16 etc.
In pakistan, the role of a mother back then was to stay at home. It was not seen as a normal thing for pakistani women in those days to go to work. They tended the animals and made the food etc. And stayed indoors for the rest of the day.

Dont blame her blame the pakistani culture. Even my mum who is in her 60's from pakistan did not work. My dad still doesnt allow her to work. The girls in my family were not allowed to work until around 15 years ago. (Again blame Culture)
Heck we werent even allowed to marry outside of our race because of culture, I had to wait until my early 30's until my parents gave in.

If she is entitled to getting a citizenship she has the right to ask you or your husband to do it. She is your husbands mother. You cant just fob her off like that.

My mother in law (Moroccan) never worked a day in a job. Her husband ran away to another country when My husband was just 8 years old and my Husband had to start working from the age of 8. He supported his 3 sisters from that age and managed to pay his school fees and all his sisters school fees by selling t shirts and cigarrettes after school on the streets of Morocco at such a delicate age.
Sometimes he would get robbed of his income for the day by some good for nothing men that would threaten and beat him for his money that he earned because he was just a kid and would end up coming home with no money but went back to work the very next day with a brave face.
Still, I am not sitting here whining about how his mother should have worked rather than put him through this and that.

When he talks about those days now he doesnt regret it and is proud of how he managed to raise and support his family even though it was difficult. He says he was the man of the household and it was his duty. He loves his mother and his family.

Every month I send his mother money to support her because that is our DUTY. During Eid and Ramadan I send her extra.
She is my husbands mother regardless.
If tomorrow she asks me to get her a visa to move to UK I would be fine with that because as I said, she is the mother. She is old. Whatever she is like. She doesnt like me much but I dont really care. That doesnt mean I have to bring myself down. I want my kids to grow up and be good hearted like me so i always show them the postives.

You need to get over yourself and stop trying to be difficult for her especially when she is at this age.

Oh and BTW my dad started working at the age of 15 and his mum didnt work she was a stay at home mum. My dad never cursed her for it etc. He had a son by the age of 18 and was supporting him and my mum and had a house as well by then and his mum and dad were both staying with him.
Never complained.

If you had a problem with your husbands mum then maybe you should have married a man who had a mother that already had a job or was working in some professional field. I am sure you had a choice before deciding to marry him. Should have interviewed him and asked him "what has your mum studied? What are her goals? What job does she intend to do to bring in income?" Lol
Idk maybe it is because I am a Muslim and I believe in mercy and kindness towards children and elders.

But honestly this thread.. ..
Pathetic. I want to puke.
YOU ARE BEING UNREASONABLE.

Whalesong · 23/05/2023 02:47

Lillonely · 22/05/2023 21:44

I have no idea, never sat one, I’d imagine it would have to be someone of similar appearance and age, maybe she wants my dm to do it for her. It seems to be common enough. But it’s not like cheating on a maths test, it’s legit fraud with the government. And all I can think truthfully, is you should’ve made some sort of effort over the last 30 years and then you’d have it in your own right and wouldn’t have to bully and emotionally blackmail people into committing crimes for you.

(we have 0 intention of doing it)

Show quote history

I've done it, and believe me, it would be extremely hard to trick them (and you'd be committing a criminal offence). We were literally stripped down, had to put everything in tiny lockers - and they checked and double checked our IDs, proof of address documents etc.
Sorry to say, but the ladies at the centre where I did it were all South Asians, with heavy accents, and very much "pull down the drawbridges". I'm Northern European so was fine (reluctantly - they were still horrible to me) but the other ladies in the waiting room (and yes, it was all women, most of them wearing veils) were in tears. One of them asked me how many times I'd attempted it, and I replied it was my first time. She replied, in tears, it was her 3rd attempt.
I passed in about 3 minutes, but this is hugely discriminatory.

Dovetail40 · 23/05/2023 06:46

HoneyBunnii · 23/05/2023 02:20

@Lillonely I am a person of pakistani ethnicity and I feel disgusted reading this post.

You are saying she should have worked etc. And that your husband had to work when he was 16 etc.
In pakistan, the role of a mother back then was to stay at home. It was not seen as a normal thing for pakistani women in those days to go to work. They tended the animals and made the food etc. And stayed indoors for the rest of the day.

Dont blame her blame the pakistani culture. Even my mum who is in her 60's from pakistan did not work. My dad still doesnt allow her to work. The girls in my family were not allowed to work until around 15 years ago. (Again blame Culture)
Heck we werent even allowed to marry outside of our race because of culture, I had to wait until my early 30's until my parents gave in.

If she is entitled to getting a citizenship she has the right to ask you or your husband to do it. She is your husbands mother. You cant just fob her off like that.

My mother in law (Moroccan) never worked a day in a job. Her husband ran away to another country when My husband was just 8 years old and my Husband had to start working from the age of 8. He supported his 3 sisters from that age and managed to pay his school fees and all his sisters school fees by selling t shirts and cigarrettes after school on the streets of Morocco at such a delicate age.
Sometimes he would get robbed of his income for the day by some good for nothing men that would threaten and beat him for his money that he earned because he was just a kid and would end up coming home with no money but went back to work the very next day with a brave face.
Still, I am not sitting here whining about how his mother should have worked rather than put him through this and that.

When he talks about those days now he doesnt regret it and is proud of how he managed to raise and support his family even though it was difficult. He says he was the man of the household and it was his duty. He loves his mother and his family.

Every month I send his mother money to support her because that is our DUTY. During Eid and Ramadan I send her extra.
She is my husbands mother regardless.
If tomorrow she asks me to get her a visa to move to UK I would be fine with that because as I said, she is the mother. She is old. Whatever she is like. She doesnt like me much but I dont really care. That doesnt mean I have to bring myself down. I want my kids to grow up and be good hearted like me so i always show them the postives.

You need to get over yourself and stop trying to be difficult for her especially when she is at this age.

Oh and BTW my dad started working at the age of 15 and his mum didnt work she was a stay at home mum. My dad never cursed her for it etc. He had a son by the age of 18 and was supporting him and my mum and had a house as well by then and his mum and dad were both staying with him.
Never complained.

If you had a problem with your husbands mum then maybe you should have married a man who had a mother that already had a job or was working in some professional field. I am sure you had a choice before deciding to marry him. Should have interviewed him and asked him "what has your mum studied? What are her goals? What job does she intend to do to bring in income?" Lol
Idk maybe it is because I am a Muslim and I believe in mercy and kindness towards children and elders.

But honestly this thread.. ..
Pathetic. I want to puke.
YOU ARE BEING UNREASONABLE.

To be fair OP how many women of your MIL generation worked?

It does not sound uncommon.
If you don't work not allowed to mix with people outside the home and not allowed to study then how the hell are you supposed to learn English?

Despite not liking her I don't think it is fair to blame her for been unable to speak the language.

Thesunnymood · 23/05/2023 06:54

I just went through it. Unless she has LOT to spend and I mean LOT, she can't cheat it. They are really making sure now.
ID checks all the way. She will need to do LIT since she is under 65 though HO can grant exemption for over 60, but I don't know how common that is. Especially now!

Just distance yourself and let her find out she is not special

DarkPatrol · 23/05/2023 07:02

I don't understand- has she been living here legally for many years? In which case, she's probably eligible for one legally, if she meets the rules.
Or is she in home country and looking to move here with a passport? If yes and there are loopholes, I'd love to know the loopholes

CharlotteRumpling · 23/05/2023 07:09

Very odd thread. You don't have to help her. But despising her for not working is despicable too. That generation of S Asian women did not work. My mum did not because she wasn't allowed to. My MIL did not either. You can dislike her and distance yourself. But your searing contempt is unreasonable.

Raising a family is work. And it is far more work in a S Asian family where the men do fuck all. That generation walked so you could run.