Page 6 | To think no she shouldn’t get a British passport

darjeelingrose · 23/05/2023 07:46

Longtimelurkerfinallyposts · 22/05/2023 22:22

baffled by this assertion from @SwitchDiver :

"Ok, so do you know that in the U.K. we have many Irish, Welsh and Scots that also do not speak English but are still British citizens?"

The vast majority of Irish, Welsh and Scots people in the UK can speak English (even those who prefer using Welsh/ Gaelic at home). I suspect the only ones who don't are D/deaf people who use sign language instead.
Who are you referring to in your post?!

I wouldn't worry about, a poster who thinks that if you are Irish then you are British clearly isn't up to date with much.

OP I get why this annoys you. I don't think you should be able to become a citizen of a country if you cannot speak the language and it is just pathetic that she hasn't learnt after so long.

CoffeeCantata · 23/05/2023 08:05

I don't think anyone who is antagonistic to Britain or British culture should get a passport - or move here. They can go and jump in a lake somewhere else!

Original poster

Lillonely · 23/05/2023 08:12

HoneyBunnii · 23/05/2023 02:20

@Lillonely I am a person of pakistani ethnicity and I feel disgusted reading this post.

You are saying she should have worked etc. And that your husband had to work when he was 16 etc.
In pakistan, the role of a mother back then was to stay at home. It was not seen as a normal thing for pakistani women in those days to go to work. They tended the animals and made the food etc. And stayed indoors for the rest of the day.

Dont blame her blame the pakistani culture. Even my mum who is in her 60's from pakistan did not work. My dad still doesnt allow her to work. The girls in my family were not allowed to work until around 15 years ago. (Again blame Culture)
Heck we werent even allowed to marry outside of our race because of culture, I had to wait until my early 30's until my parents gave in.

If she is entitled to getting a citizenship she has the right to ask you or your husband to do it. She is your husbands mother. You cant just fob her off like that.

My mother in law (Moroccan) never worked a day in a job. Her husband ran away to another country when My husband was just 8 years old and my Husband had to start working from the age of 8. He supported his 3 sisters from that age and managed to pay his school fees and all his sisters school fees by selling t shirts and cigarrettes after school on the streets of Morocco at such a delicate age.
Sometimes he would get robbed of his income for the day by some good for nothing men that would threaten and beat him for his money that he earned because he was just a kid and would end up coming home with no money but went back to work the very next day with a brave face.
Still, I am not sitting here whining about how his mother should have worked rather than put him through this and that.

When he talks about those days now he doesnt regret it and is proud of how he managed to raise and support his family even though it was difficult. He says he was the man of the household and it was his duty. He loves his mother and his family.

Every month I send his mother money to support her because that is our DUTY. During Eid and Ramadan I send her extra.
She is my husbands mother regardless.
If tomorrow she asks me to get her a visa to move to UK I would be fine with that because as I said, she is the mother. She is old. Whatever she is like. She doesnt like me much but I dont really care. That doesnt mean I have to bring myself down. I want my kids to grow up and be good hearted like me so i always show them the postives.

You need to get over yourself and stop trying to be difficult for her especially when she is at this age.

Oh and BTW my dad started working at the age of 15 and his mum didnt work she was a stay at home mum. My dad never cursed her for it etc. He had a son by the age of 18 and was supporting him and my mum and had a house as well by then and his mum and dad were both staying with him.
Never complained.

If you had a problem with your husbands mum then maybe you should have married a man who had a mother that already had a job or was working in some professional field. I am sure you had a choice before deciding to marry him. Should have interviewed him and asked him "what has your mum studied? What are her goals? What job does she intend to do to bring in income?" Lol
Idk maybe it is because I am a Muslim and I believe in mercy and kindness towards children and elders.

But honestly this thread.. ..
Pathetic. I want to puke.
YOU ARE BEING UNREASONABLE.

Point is she’s not entitled right now, she will be later. But she wants right now.

sorry but Islamically I owe my in laws nothing, it’s not wajib on me to do anything for them except for treating them with basic kindness and civility that you give to anyone. Unfortunately that’s never been how they’ve treated me, as an Pakistani woman, you’ll know how common it is, often to arrange a marriage from back home (sometimes inside the family) to expect DIL to move in and basically become a servant and that situation can be quite abusive for a lot of women. I was from dh own choice so we were off to a bad start from the get go made worse by being the wrong type of Asian and nail in the coffin not moving in. So I’ve had to distance myself and help out from a safe remove

I don’t care what she does for work or not work, i don’t care if she’s professional or not. i do feel that in her situation she should’ve made more effort because her life would be better for it. She’s not old either, under 60,

i do have sympathy for her to an extent but that sympathy does stop when I know how much she put her child through. To have to work 2 jobs along side going to full time education to support a house hold at gcse time. Sorry but that’s abuse. I know there are cultural issue as to why she won’t divorce FIL but to demand us to sell our home to care for her is of course unreasonable, it’s FIL responsibility and DH helps when he can but he can’t support 2 households.

OP posts:

sheldonia · 23/05/2023 09:34

That generation of S Asian women did not work

Can people stop repeating this racist nonsense? SE Asiaon women are, and have been for many many years, doctors, dentists, lawyers, teachers, politicians, pharmacists, business owners.... They weren't all illiterate women sitting at home scrubbing floors while their teenage sons brought in the money.

Honestly, the trope is offensive.

CharlotteRumpling · 23/05/2023 09:42

sheldonia · 23/05/2023 09:34

That generation of S Asian women did not work

Can people stop repeating this racist nonsense? SE Asiaon women are, and have been for many many years, doctors, dentists, lawyers, teachers, politicians, pharmacists, business owners.... They weren't all illiterate women sitting at home scrubbing floors while their teenage sons brought in the money.

Honestly, the trope is offensive.

Racist? I am S Asian. I didnt say anything about being illiterate or scrubbing floors. Stop putting words in my mouth. Its not racist to say many women of that generation did not work outside the home.

Re the MIL's passport, its not up to the OP to decide. All she can do is decline her help for cheating or whatever ( though I don't even see how this is possible).

sheldonia · 23/05/2023 09:44

Its not racist to say many women of that generation did not work outside the home

You didn't say many didn't work. The comment was that generation didn't work. They did, you were wrong, and its racist to suggest an entire generation of women from an entire sub continent did not work.

Butchyrestingface · 23/05/2023 09:45

As of 30 Sept 2020 according to Gov.U.K.:
0.94% of Irish Travellers cannot speak English
3.27% of Irish Travellers do not speak English well

The word 'many' does not mean what you think it means.

MrsSkylerWhite · 23/05/2023 09:48

Why are you expected to be involved? If your husband wants to, he can help her. Make it very clear now that she won’t be living with you and you will not be financing her or caring for her as she ages.

lljkk · 23/05/2023 09:54

I hope you stand your ground, OP. Keep us updated.

CharlotteRumpling · 23/05/2023 09:54

sheldonia · 23/05/2023 09:44

Its not racist to say many women of that generation did not work outside the home

You didn't say many didn't work. The comment was that generation didn't work. They did, you were wrong, and its racist to suggest an entire generation of women from an entire sub continent did not work.

Oh fgs. Stop nitpicking so you can hurl accusations of racism around.

SugarNspices · 23/05/2023 10:07

@HoneyBunnii an actual 8 year old child just because he was born male had to go out and work to support the family and go to school, when there is an actual adult in the house but because she was female she doesn't? Do you not see, that is crazy sorry. Poor kid should be going to school, doing some chores, playing out, being a child not having the duties of being sole provider for his family. You are only a kid for so long. It is wrong, I don't care what religion or culture it is, parents should provide for their kids at least until they finish school.

zingally · 23/05/2023 10:08

Not your problem.

She can ask forever, as far as I'd be concerned!

I suspect, all things considered, she's had a very lonely, unfulfilling and disappointing life - both through her own actions, and those of other people. That can really do a number on people, who in different circumstances would be unrecognisable.

So, yes, I wouldn't fall over myself to help her - but neither would I stand in the way of someone else helping her out a bit.

Helloword · 23/05/2023 10:09

Featherbirds · 22/05/2023 21:43

Your judgement is clouded, yes, because frankly she probably has propped up the family by being a housewife. Many people of her generation even if they are not South Asians were housewives.

If she is older than 65, she would not need to take Life in the UK test or the English language test. If she wants you to help her fill in the form, tell her to source another lawyer or legal assistant like everyone else does.

Why do posters have to be so dismissive. Op's judgement is clouded but posters are able to judge perfectly without even knowing the person in question.
OP said MIL never tried to learn English, has low opinion of British people and the country.

Original poster

Lillonely · 23/05/2023 10:14

Well… growing up and my dM is older, the majority of women did work. My GM did, and I’d say about 50% of her peers did, at least how she tells it. But that’s not really the point. It’s more the attitude that makes it abusive. I don’t know who would refuse a job because they feel like their son should have to sell their house to pay for them, or who makes a kid sitting his exams to work 2 jobs to pay for food, clothes, council tax, bills, a new kitchen, etc into his house. That’s a huge weight to put On a child’s shoulders and to be clear it’s in the UK. He’d beg for her to sign on to claim unemployment back then but she wouldn’t, she wanted him to earn and keep her. That’s where it’s not right. she didn’t want to learn English or sign on or work, no one was stopping her, there was no one to stop her, and if she had then she’d have more independence and probably could’ve got her passport and citizenship in her own right. That’s my point

OP posts:

DontForgetToBreathe · 23/05/2023 10:16

Lillonely · 22/05/2023 21:16

I’m prepared to be told I’m BU here

you might have read my other MIL threads here, feel free to search.

the bare bones are, asian family (Pakistani, myself included) MIL cant speak English, never worked, never made any attempt to. FIL is a Prince and brought her here and in affect ditched her to swan off with second wife (cough mistress cough. Both MIL and FIL left dh from early teens to earn for the house hold and then be the breadwinner at 16. The boy had holes in shoes and an empty tummy and she never attempted to work. Still wants to be provided for, won’t do anything.

but now she wants a British passport, and there are loopholes. I actually think no, you shouldn’t have one, settled status fine but not citizenship. My parents and grandparents were grafters, integrated, and didn’t expect anything for free and took pride in taking the citizen ship exams and studying and passing not just wanting handouts. I mean I wouldn’t expect to go to France, Germany, uae and them to hand me a passport and citizenship and not bother to even learn the language. Aibu to think get it the legit way or don’t bother. She’s got nothing nice to say about Brits or British culture or anything so why would you want a part of it? I feel it’s crap like this that gives British Muslims a bad name.

aibu and am I letting our history (she’s not very nice to me or my family despite us trying to help her) cloud by judgment?

Tricky. Make yourself unavailable and go no contact if you can. It’s better in the long run she knows where you stand. Don’t pretend to be ‘there’ and not there. Be straight up and say this is not part of your plans for your future.

DontForgetToBreathe · 23/05/2023 10:25

You should be allowed to say, “I don’t want to.”

Dixiechickonhols · 23/05/2023 10:31

Remembering your other threads Op I’d say you are giving this too much headspace. You don’t get along with MIL. Far too much water under bridge. Don’t entertain it. If DH wants to assist her then let him. If they want you to get involved at most I’d send links off gov.uk or signpost to charities who could help. I know on last thread there were suggestions of organisations that could help.
You’ve understandably got lots of anger towards her for how she treated the man you love. For your own sake try and distance yourself. Maybe some individual counselling would help.
Whether how mil is is cultural or laziness or due to learning disability isn’t really relevant. It’s not for you to wave a magic wand and sort.
I suspect if mil was brought into uk now it would be seen as forced marriage/trafficking and she’d be supported as a victim. You said she was a family servant with low iq and no education married with no say as a young teen and brought into England and then abandoned pregnant by fil who ‘married’ again islamically. You can’t judge her by standards of what others without that background would have done.

Original poster

Lillonely · 23/05/2023 10:39

Dixiechickonhols · 23/05/2023 10:31

Remembering your other threads Op I’d say you are giving this too much headspace. You don’t get along with MIL. Far too much water under bridge. Don’t entertain it. If DH wants to assist her then let him. If they want you to get involved at most I’d send links off gov.uk or signpost to charities who could help. I know on last thread there were suggestions of organisations that could help.
You’ve understandably got lots of anger towards her for how she treated the man you love. For your own sake try and distance yourself. Maybe some individual counselling would help.
Whether how mil is is cultural or laziness or due to learning disability isn’t really relevant. It’s not for you to wave a magic wand and sort.
I suspect if mil was brought into uk now it would be seen as forced marriage/trafficking and she’d be supported as a victim. You said she was a family servant with low iq and no education married with no say as a young teen and brought into England and then abandoned pregnant by fil who ‘married’ again islamically. You can’t judge her by standards of what others without that background would have done.

I suspect you’re right re headspace and counselling… I actually did have some counselling a while ago because the whole situation gave me terrible social anxiety.

im not sure if it would be seen as forced as she did want to marry him and blames the other woman for taking her dh, but it definitely was not a meeting of equals that’s for sure, but she wasn’t a teen, she’d have been in her 20s. But yes low iq and no education. The trouble I have is the refusal of help yet demands that are incredibly unrealistic and unreasonable and then the tantrums when she doesn’t get her way.

OP posts:

passiveaggressivenonsense · 23/05/2023 10:42

Are you Suella Braverman testing the waters for your next hate intervention ?!

Original poster

Lillonely · 23/05/2023 10:47

passiveaggressivenonsense · 23/05/2023 10:42

Are you Suella Braverman testing the waters for your next hate intervention ?!

Sigh.

im actually a woman with quite a difficult and abnormal situation with my in-laws that has taken a lot out of me and my marriage over many years and is having a huge toll on the mental health of me and my dh.

OP posts:

Dixiechickonhols · 23/05/2023 10:50

Lillonely · 23/05/2023 10:39

I suspect you’re right re headspace and counselling… I actually did have some counselling a while ago because the whole situation gave me terrible social anxiety.

im not sure if it would be seen as forced as she did want to marry him and blames the other woman for taking her dh, but it definitely was not a meeting of equals that’s for sure, but she wasn’t a teen, she’d have been in her 20s. But yes low iq and no education. The trouble I have is the refusal of help yet demands that are incredibly unrealistic and unreasonable and then the tantrums when she doesn’t get her way.

Show quote history

I’d definitely prioritise your mental health and try and step back.
It’s a difficult situation.
I remember your other thread as I used to live in a small lancs mill town with a very large Pakistani heritage community. When posters were saying how has she managed no English all these years I could easily understand as language in shops in town isn’t English so she could easily shop for food or clothes at the bazaar. I also know there were services aimed at women like mil so it must be frustrating if she won’t engage with them.
As an observer it sounds like Mil has a learning disability. Her actions sound very much like a young scared child. Perhaps thinking of her that way would help you move on. If she’s operating at level
of a 7 or 8 yr old it does explain her behaviour and inability to face reality or deal with adult situations like bills and paperwork.

Peanutlatte · 23/05/2023 10:53

You sound racist. How many British learnt to speak hindi when they went to live in India? How many speak Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, Turkish etc and they live there? You are not the Queen of England...

The law is the law, if she can apply for it you have no right to decide if it's right or not.

Original poster

Lillonely · 23/05/2023 11:14

Peanutlatte · 23/05/2023 10:53

You sound racist. How many British learnt to speak hindi when they went to live in India? How many speak Portuguese, Spanish, Italian, Turkish etc and they live there? You are not the Queen of England...

The law is the law, if she can apply for it you have no right to decide if it's right or not.

How am I racist when we are of the same race? My point was in order to have it now she’d have to have learned English and sit a pretty tough test, if she wanted to do it that way, I’d help her to the best of my ability, but I wont pay for it. So as she hasn’t, she has to wait until 65 and then dh can do the forms for her but we can’t pay for it.

exactly, the last is the law… she’s asking me to circumvent it for her. I can’t just magic up citizenship or a passport for her. It’s not how it works

OP posts:

Dovetail40 · 23/05/2023 11:17

Let your husband explain why it can't be done.

Dovetail40 · 23/05/2023 11:18

He should tell her that you don't want to be involved.