Why so much fuss over Stella Braverman?

[lastminutepanicking]

I’m just wondering who on earth cares? Can’t understand why this is such big news.

It really doesn't does it.

Just an example of the level of the debate on these threads that you need to point out the difference between 'vile' and 'scum'.

'Oh but but I called my next door neighbour scum once it's absolutely fine tee hee'.

No, it isn't.

Clav consistently posts relevant links to refute the often silly comments on these threads

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

You teally are out-janiie-ing yourself!
Shame the links often involve events from decades ago.

Really, ffs.

moralising and patronising people has much less impact from someone who has consistently shown they can justify support for any member of a particular group on the sole basis they’re in belong to that group. There’s literally no neutrality or objectivity, just blind loyalty verging on cult-like devotion.

This.

And the more posters on here defend the shit behaviour, the less likely I am to vote conservative (actually that boat sailed when they didn't clean house immediately the law breaking came to light). When they voted for more of the same, Truss who didn't give a shit about how her decisions affected the country, and Sunak who's in it for himself and also breaks the law at will (×2 fpn whilst in government), they showed they couldn't give a stuff.

Then we have the reports of wasted money, stolen money and corruption trickling down through the members, from the Lords, to local councils. The police are acting as though they are also above the law, starting with those who worked closely with them in met, and now going through to other forces. They are rotten, and it's eating into society.

I would say the same if it was Labour behaving in this way. Accountability and trust in government is important, without it cracks appear and make the country weak.
We need a change and soon before society deteriorates and breaks down.

"someone who has consistently shown they can justify support for any member of a particular group on the sole basis they’re in belong to that group. '

You're making stuff up now. I've never suggested 'I support any member of a particular group'.

What I have said 'consistently' is BoJo and now Sunak have made a far better job of things that the rag tag bunch of hopeless misfits that is the Labour front bench could ever hope to.

What I have said 'consistently' is BoJo and now Sunak have made a far better job of things that the rag tag bunch of hopeless misfits that is the Labour front bench could ever hope to.

Says you.

Remind me who has been in power for 13 years making a pigs ear of just about everything?
Not Labour.

You'll get your chance when they win the nxt GE.

@Janiie Uhuh.

If that were true you would be able to express your criticism for Labour independent of a scenario critical to the tories. You are wholly incapable of assessing the current cabinet without comparing to labour in some way. Everything is a ‘vs’ argument.

I note Truss is conveniently missing. Even you can't argue she wasn't a complete fuck up.

itsgettingweird
The problem is you have done the typical tribal thing and assumed everyone moaning about current government is a Labour supporter

Not really, I was replying directly to Blossomtoes - who I know is a fervent Labour supporter.

From a swing voters point of view your actually an advert for voting Labour

I thought you were swinging between voting for Labour and spoiling your ballot paper? You are often on the anti-government threads.

Instead you've shown my why 25 years ago if I'd voted Labour then I shouldn't have. (I wasn't in the country so didn't vote at all!)

Out of interest, how did you vote in the general elections of 2010, 2015 and 2017?

Have you forgotten all the financial support the winter fuel pay outs, the energy caps. Managing covid when Sir Beer would have had us locked down for 2years solid. Leading in the support for Ukraine. Inflation now going down, ah but that'll be a global thing yet when it was soaring it was all Bozo's personal fault.

We can all only hope the polls turn around in the next 12mths and we don't have that Zippy character representing our country.

scum
noun
noun: scum
1 1. 
a layer of dirt or froth on the surface of a liquid."green scum found on stagnant pools"

h 
Similar:

film layer covering froth foam suds dross dirt

2 2. 

DEROGATORY•INFORMAL
Hide definition


a worthlesss or contemptiblee person or group of people."you drug dealers are the scum of the earth"
verb
verb: scum; 3rd person present: scums; past tense: scummed; past participle: scummed; gerund or present participle: scumming
1 form a layer of dirt or frothh_ on (a liquid)."litter scummed the surface of the water"





◦ (of a liquid) become covered with a layer of dirt or froth."the lagoon scummed over"

vile

Learn to pronounce
adjective
adjective: vile; comparative adjective: viler; superlative adjective: vilest
1 extremely unpleasant."he has a vile temper"



◦ morallyy_ bad; wicked."as vile a rogue as ever lived"



And the list of other words used in the definitions are worse for vile than for scum!!!!

Scum is used to describe "pond life". It derives from the initial meaning of floating dirt. It's a descriptor used to indicate your opinions are they are dirty, rotten etc.

Alternative words for vile are abhorrent, heinous, deplorable, monstrous, despicable etc etc.

So I hate to agree with our Tory fan club but actually describing Braverman and in fact any Tory as vile is far better, acceptable and accurate than simply using scum.

Cornettoninja
moralising and patronising people has much less impact from someone who has consistently shown they can justify support for any member of a particular group on the sole basis they’re in belong to that group. There’s literally no neutrality or objectivity, just blind loyalty verging on cult-like devotion.

I quite clearly posted a number of times that I found Neil Parish's behaviour unacceptable - but you don't want to acknowledge that. I simply declined to label him as 'scum'. I do, however, think Suella Braverman's faux pas (seeking advice on the speed awareness course) is a trivial matter.

From a swing voters point of view your actually an advert for voting Labour

I thought you were swinging between voting for Labour and spoiling your ballot paper? You are often on the anti-government threads.

Not me. I'm on one other thread and agree with what some people agree with and comment as such.

I don't agree Jeremy Corbyn would have done a better job and have never said so even though some posters on that thread believe he would.
In one of the threads on that long running thread some other posters turned up who aren't regulars and battered me because it's know I voted for Johnson. Corbyn was too far left and I felt Johnson was more centric which aligns with my views. Now this current lit are too far right and I feel Starmer is more centric and therefore aligns with my views.

And I would NEVER say and NEVER ruin my ballot paper. Braverman is my MP. I've met her numerous times personally and professionally. I'm not wasting a vote - any vote - I have where I can vote against her

Out of interest, how did you vote in the general elections of 2010, 2015 and 2017?

I've voted 3 times in the uk for general elections.

I have voted for each party once each time.

I'm not really sure what that information tells you about me though

On energy support payments and Ukraine there's zero suggestion that Labour would have done anything differently. Governments across Europe were all doing the same thing and there's no reason to suppose a Labour government wouldn't have followed suit. Doing the sensible thing when everyone else is doing it too is common sense and not deserving of great praise.

Fucking up people's mortgage rates with idiotic budgets on the other hands is worthy of condemnation. Handing out PPE contracts to your bezzie mates who then make lots of money and deliver nothing useful is worthy of condemnation. Wilfully and knowingly putting a sexual predator in a post of high responsibility is worthy of condemnation.

I would argue that lockdown 1 was necessary because nobody knew what COVID was back then. Lockdown 2 could and should have been avoided.

itsgettingweird
And I would NEVER say and NEVER ruin my ballot paper

Perhaps you were referring to local elections.

I've voted 3 times in the uk for general elections

You haven't answered my question - who did you vote for in 2010, 2015 and 2017? Don't be a 'shy Tory' now.

I have voted for each party once each time.

@Clavinova there's your answer. A true swing voter right there.

No, you didn’t just ‘decline to label him scum’ you actively argued and defended the label applied to him from anyone else too (along with anyone who’s ever watched porn at work ).

Re: Suella, you have to ignore the fact that’s it’s one more ‘trivial matter’ in a long line of other ‘trivial matters’ that mount up and evidence her complete unsuitability for office.

I could possibly understand it as something other than unconditional loyalty if she was in some way measurably successful at delivering her aims (whether I agree with them or not) but she’s clearly not. I don’t understand why a proclaimed Tory supporter wouldn’t want a successful person in position rather than a soundbite merchant.

Err you just have! Your support for the tory party is absolute, so pls don't feel you need to be shy about it.

Considering that Govt borrowing costs (Gilt Yields) are back up the super high rates we saw after Truss and her infamous mini budget, where is the actually evidence that Sunak is doing a better job?

Mortgage interest rates are hiking back up again, pension funds being devalued too.

We are spending extra 10s of billions in borrowing costs because of their terrible handling of the economy and we now have Hunt publicly saying he is willing to push the UK go into recession to control inflation... what economics book did he get that out of???

unbelievable really that all you can say is "but Labour...."

I'm not.

In 2019 you know I voted Tory.

In 2010 and 2015 Labour

2017 Lib Dem's.

Still not sure what exactly what you want that information for?

I've also talked openly about how the local councillor I voted for repeatedly was a Tory. And admitted I hadn't realised he was at first because he was so centric but locally he was brilliant and did so much. He was also my sociology lecturer at Uni!!!! (Before being my councillor and me voting for him!)

It's no secret I'm not party loyal to one party but loyal to voting for who I believe aligns to my views the best and will bring the country forward the best. Sometimes I get it royally wrong unfortunately like the electorate in general seems to have done over the current Tory's and brexit.

Oh and I'd never ruin my paper locally or for general. Not entirely sure why you think this?! It's not something I believe in despite understanding why some make that decision as best for them (I know a lot of Tory voters who ruined their appears at last local use the don't like Braverman but won't vote Labour or libs ).

Cornettoninja
No, you didn’t just ‘decline to label him scum’ you actively argued and defended [against?] the label applied to him from anyone else too (along with anyone who’s ever watched porn at work

I said I didn't agree with people labelling Neil Parish as 'scum' because it's not a word I use myself. Not agreeing with someone is not the same as 'actively arguing and defending'. I didn't argue against the labelling of others - I asked you a hypothetical question instead. My posts;

Of course it's not acceptable behaviour...

I have quite clearly stated that Neil Parish's behaviour was of course, unacceptable, however I wouldn't go as far as to describe him as 'scum', no.

I don't use language like that myself [referring to Neil Parish] - I don't agree with people who do.

I haven't defended his actions at all - I've stated I wouldn't describe him as 'scum' - and certainly not on social media. Would you describe every man who watched porn at work 'scum'?

itsgettingweird
In 2019 you know I voted Tory
In 2010 and 2015 Labour
2017 Lib Dem's

So you voted to keep Corbyn out?

Oh and I'd never ruin my paper locally or for general. Not entirely sure why you think this?!

Ways and means.

Anyway, I have a busy day ahead, so I'll leave you to it.

I don't use language like that myself [referring to Neil Parish] - I don't agree with people who do

it’s not necessary to agree or disagree if you’re simply stating it’s not language you yourself would use.

Stating you don’t agree with people who do when there’s no compulsion for you to use the same language means that you disagree with the sentiment the word scum applying to those it has been said about.

It’s perfectly possible to agree with the sentiment without using the same language. Diverting the conversation to distract by dissecting the language used is distracting from the sentiment those words convey.

But I’m sure you already understand that.