An alcoholic returning to booze after sobriety is a choice not a damn disease

[Violet143]

So it ends. A blissful 9 months of abstinence where it felt as though I finally had some semblance of a mother back for the first time in 15 years. She reached rock bottom last year and was hospitalised, went through medical detox etc. I broke NC of almost a year and supported her, like a mug, as she really seemed to have had a wake up call. She had counselling, at my expense. She was upfront that the drinking was boredom and habit, not some massive trauma response.

Last week she made the conscious choice, whilst in complete sobriety, to return to the booze. Why? She was bored and didn't have much "in her life" ...other than supportive children and grandchildren who love her, as worthless as we are.

I've heard alcoholism referred to as a disease, just like cancer, except you don't go and buy more cancer from the corner shop when it runs out - do you?

It's a choice, especially when you don't have the additional complication of physical addiction to contend with.

I'm so sick and tired of all of the excusing the behaviour and this is exactly why I couldn't stomach another session of Al anon.

Do you strongly disagree if so why?

Nobody wants to be an addict. Yes, there is choice involved in whether or not someone resorts to alcohol, but it's not the same choice as deciding what's for dinner. It is a coping mechanism and OPs mother is deluded for thinking she drinks out of boredom.

Alcoholism causes great damage to relationships and ultimately the alcoholic adult is responsible for their impact. However, I'm really appalled at the attitude of some ex addicts and the high horse they seem to be on. Almost smug that they got sober and shaming those who haven't managed. It's really disgusting behaviour from someone who you'd think understands. It's like me feeling smug that I never became an alcoholic and delude myself that I am the stronger person with more willpower etc. Awful.

YANBU. True addiction must be utterly horrific. But I’ve never understood how some claim it’s a disease. How is it??

Actually @Violet143 you sound pretty unpleasant. By all means distance yourself from your mother as she clearly does you no good and you have every right to withdraw. Talking about making choices, eh? You made the choice to reconnect with her, why don't you just own it? Surely that's not more difficult than staying sober?

But your comments around her not having any trauma etc. You have no way of knowing that, especially since she seems to have inflicted trauma on you. Healthy people are quite unlikely to do that. It could be she's not aware of her own trauma, and in my opinion she lacks self awareness if she really believes the reason she drinks is boredom. I feel sorry for her on some level and for you too.

Ugh, shouldn't have read this thread. I'm an alcoholic in recovery, have been for quite a few years now - but the shaming talk of laziness, lack of will power etc. is just making me feel a bit down. Honestly, most addicts and alcoholics really don't WANT to be

The problem is the co-dependent.
If it is traumatising you you need to walk away.
Someone up thread mentioned a ‘poor husband’.
He needs to walk away.

You should do whatever is best for YOU at the moment OP - you have your own health issue and need all your energy for yourself.
My DH is an alcoholic in recovery. Admitted to hospital twice with liver compromised, 2 stints in detox.
He knows if he starts drinking again he will die. I know it too so am "detached with love". That's the only way I can deal with this - I can support and encourage him, but am not investing my emotions to visualise an old age together.

Is it a disease? Fuck knows. I think it may lead some to say "It's a disease, I can't help catching it" which is counter productive IMO and makes one angry with that person because they sound like a victim when the solution is obvious and "easy".

Addiction is not easy at all. I think of it as a mental illness - for example, giving up smoking doesn't cause physical pain or discomfort, it's entirely mental.

I'd suggest you keep Mum at a distance at the very least, but if NC is better for you then of course you should do that.

I wish you all the very best

@CatLoaf be proud of your sober years. You have overcome something many struggle with and that is admirable. I'm sorry if this thread has made you feel downhearted...it comes from a place of pain and anger from being hurt by an alcoholic and the challenge there can be in accepting the limits of our control over that.

My brother died too young from his alcohol use a little over a year ago. I don't think I'll ever understand how his life became that way. The impact it has had on my family, not least my parents is truly tragic. But I couldn't blame him...I really don't think he choose that path, I'm just so terribly sad that he couldn't have had a happier life.

@Violet143 I've had problems with drinking in the past when my mental health has been bad for various reasons (I have a severe MH disability- bipolar.)

I was told that 1 in 5 people with severe alcohol issues also have a personality disorder. It does sound like your mum is one of them maybe, or at least, the drink is effecting her interactions with others of course.

I hope that you are getting all the help you can to look after yourself. x

Actually Violet143 you sound pretty unpleasant

Well, perhaps I am.

Being hurt time and time again by those meant to love us tends to jade some people.

Forgive me for having ran completely out of sympathy for somebody who gives not one shit about me.

I am however very sorry that my thread and or posts have caused upset to people like you, CatLoaf. I think you should be very proud of your sober years too. I don't believe every addict is like my mum. Not all of this is about her addiction, there's a personality element that has been there since way before alcoholic was a problem.

Violet143 people who havent been hurt over and over and had to watch there own mother turn into somone else, scared they will get the phone call shes took it to far and died will never understand. The alcoholic makes the choice and the whole family suffer. I no longer care why my mum has decided to drink any excuse really and she's there again. It breaks my absolute heart every time though but i dont have sympathy for her she chose this i did not and neither did you

In the end, no one really knows why some alcoholics, or people with other addictions/compulsions, are able to choose to stop, and others don't seem to be able to.

I have so many of them in my family, and the ones that stop and those that don't aren't always what you'd expect. But it has often seemed to me like something tipped the balance for them - the pain of drinking became worse than the pain, or fear, of giving it up. My father and grandfather both gave it up when their wives left them, and they couldn't cope alone - that was their line. They were also able to come to terms with the things that drove a lot of their disconnection. My father did ut with AA, my grandfather with literature.

My brother on the other hand so far hasn't, and in fact it seems to be a form of suicide for him. But he also hasn't been able to let go of the things that haunt him. Which actually are a lot less horrible than his father or grandfather's experiences, but he won't let them go and he can't face them either.

All of which is to say, whether or not it's right to call it a disease, it certainly isn't about a person making logical, healthy choices, nor is it about loving others, or loving themselves.

@Violet143 so much of what you say is so familiar to me, and others whose families have been ruined by alcoholics. I don't know where I sit on the disease/choice spectrum, but I understand how alcoholism destroys relationships.

I hope @CatLoaf that's a pain you will never know and if you haven't lived through this, I understand why you might not understand why @Violet143 feels this way.

@Violet143 do what you need to do to protect yourself. You don't need to decide if you will 'ever' speak to her again. It doesn't need to be a black/white concept of 'going no contact' - unless that's helpful to you. Do what helps you, right now. You may change how you feel - soon or in the distant future. You may be able to have some form of relationship with her (if that's what you decide) with very strict boundaries in place - for example, only having contact when she is 100% sober - or you may feel you can't support her through relapses. Do what works best for you. Feel free to PM if you want to talk to someone who gets it.

It is a disease

And a choice she makes within that disease

Cut her out of your life op.

That was exactly it for me. The fear of staying the same became greater than the fear of stopping drinking, the fear of changing. And only then, when the scales tipped that day was I able to see through the delusion that I needed alcohol to get through life and see through the delusion that I couldn't live without it. My life had become so painful that I couldn't bear to wake up another day and repeat it. I knew I had to do something different. Up until then the illness really made me believe that my life would not be worth living without drinking.

We call it the "gift of desperation" in AA and many alcoholics never get it. Many will continue to death. Without that moment it's really hard (probably impossible) for any alcoholic to get sober and stay sober. It's why so many alcoholics get sent to rehab or medical detox and drink again on their first day out. Until they have that moment, they are often not "done".

@CatLoaf well done on your sobriety! But yes yes I'd suggest staying clear of threads like this for the time being if they are causing you upset. Unfortunately alcoholism is not understood by most people (and to be fair, how could it be?) and many of the opinions on this thread are frustrating to hear as an alcoholic in recovery.

I do strongly disagree. That craving to use is not a choice. It’s a daily, hourly, minute by minute monster in your head telling you that no one needs you or wants you and that you are not worth a thing. Breaking the physical dependency is the easy bit. Facing yourself, your life, your family and friends without that layer is excruciating and for some people they can’t live with it. Unless you have experience of addiction it’s impossible to understand it. And that’s not minimising or denying your pain or telling you that you don’t have every right to walk away if that’s what you need to do. You should do whatever protects you.

My mom is often homeless and an addict.
All three of her children were removed from her.
She is a very selfish person and has been violent and in jail.
In her world she will always be the victim. Everyone else lacks understanding and she is the only one to suffer. I no longer communicate with her. She mainly used me as an ATM.

Also as someone who has been in recovery from anorexia for 20 years. Yes, anorexia is a disease but it is a choice to recover.

My personal experience of the 'shaming of alcoholics' is that it comes from diehard AAers. The smugness and cruelty I have seen from some people in AA who believe that theirs is The Only Way and people like me who did it without them will definitely relapse and probably die, is dreadful.

I hope I'm not smug about my sobriety - I'm just incredibly grateful I managed it and also aware that one drink would take it away.

I've seen people who can't escape it die, and I know that my kids would now have nothing to do with me, quite rightly, if I started again.
Disease or not, it's bloody horrific

I think all forms of addiction are unhealthy coping mechanisms and that is where the disease part comes in as in dis “ease” means not at ease internally and addicts reach for their drug of choice to deal with that lack of internal peace. It is completely maladaptive but there again some situations people should never, ever have to adapt to but they have to. Some people genuinely cannot cope with their inner worlds because they are simply too painful or in other ways uncomfortable that brings in addiction.

I would say that addiction is a psychological issue and a maladaptive response.
its definitely not a disease in the truth sense of the word.

I’d absolutely accept it’s addictive behaviour and thus a mental health issue, but I don’t see how it’s a disease - or what the point of categorising it like that is.

Who knows what void she is trying to fill, but anyway it is not your job to give more than you can. Step away.

Yes, I think this is really important to say - it’s bloody awful and I guess that is why people describe it as a disease, although I don’t think that’s helpful.

The disease is addiction and if I were to use your cancer analogy, her addiction was in remission.

Addiction is complex but you don’t have to be around it if you don’t want to.

@Violet143 2 things. First I had an angio just over a year ago (heart scare, happily nothing wrong) and it’s an odd procedure but fascinating. No pain, at all, lovely lovely practitioners, lots of whirring but they talked me through it all both before and during and it was honestly fine. I’d happily have another! Hope it goes well.

Second, I think your post raises some really important issues. There is, of course there is, a line between will and addiction. If you compare depression, for example, there is a point at which the sufferer has to decide to and then get out of bed. That is down to their will. The anorexic can have all the treatment in the world but they have to decide to start eating. That line between will and illness is sometimes very blurred, but to me there IS an element of choice, to stop lighting the cigarette, to choose carrot rather than cake. How much of the choices or ability to make different ones is down to illness? Who knows. I know it’s really hurtful to watch people we love consumed by illness and making bad choices and I think maybe one just has to do what one needs to protect yourself. Take care.

Hey Tortie, I'm sorry that's been your experience but just want to make it clear that those definitely aren't the views of AA and if you've been treated that way then it's definitely a very small minority of people who aren't really following the AA ethos themselves anyway.

AA gets a lot of bad rap (mostly from people who have never given it a "proper go") and it's not a good thing IMO as it could prevent people from trying it out who it could potentially really help. AA can be absolutely wonderful. It's free, available pretty much 24/7 and the majority of people who attend regularly are living good lives free from the obsession of alcohol.

AA is pretty clear in that it does not believe that AA is the only way to get sober or stay sober. There are many ways - and fantastic if you've found one. AA also doesn't look down on people who choose not to stick around AA and it's definitely against thr AA principles to be judgemental, smug, cruel or nasty to others? So if you've experienced that treatment it's not from AA it's just from asshole individuals.

Medically they don't use the term alcoholic or disease any more. It's referred to as alcohol use disorder, similar to disordered eating. It's only really AA that uses that language still.

Alcohol use disorder is a spectrum which many people would fall on who don't consider themselves to have a problem with alcohol. I've posted the link below that the NHS use to determine what level of risk you're at from your own drinking.

I personally don't think there is any safe level of alcohol to consume. It's a scam, a multi billion pound advertising industry. It's poison and yet it's someone insiduous in our society and culture.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/684823/Alcohol_use_disorders_identification_test__AUDIT_.pdf