To think we’ve all been brainwashed (beauty standards)

[exproblemsforever]

I was reading a heartwarming thread on Reddit today about supposed imperfections that men actually live on women. Answers ranged from laughter lines, having a bit of a belly, cellulite, stretch marks, big noses - all of it.

it made me think, we are constantly told we (women) are not good enough. That we have to fix any perceived flaws. That unless we do we aren’t worthy of love, etc. We are taught this from a relatively young age (remember Cosmo magazine).

We must be hair free, no lines, no sun damage, lightly tanned (natural of course but don’t get sun damage), big breasts but they must be firm, a juicy bottom but you mustn’t have cellulite or stretch marks, no fat on your tummy….

it’s all BS.

And I’m not saying to accept ourselves because a bunch of men on the internet said so. It just made me realise that we are just us. We don’t have imperfections. We just are what we are. If we / someone wants to change something that’s all well and good. But to be made to feel we HAVE to, that’s just not ok. It’s just a money making exercise.

Argh sorry rant over. I only slept a couple of hours so I apologise if I am incoherent lol.

I think you would be interested in Naomi Wolf's book "The Beauty Myth" OP

But drill it down and the only reason it makes women (including myself in this) to feel more attractive is because we have been socialised to think that

Exactly or else why don't men walk about in heels? And they're not exactly comfortable.

It's so strange that some people think despite living their whole lives within a society that they have been completely unaffected by that society's man-made roles. Having your own mind and choosing to do something is not the same as understanding why you do it.

Ancient Egyptians regarded beauty as a spiritual thing and both sexes wore make up.

I do take your point about women in recent history having the weaker position for sure, especially around voting/earning/child rearing issues. Not sure I can equate the desire to dress up and make up with being complicit in our own downfall. Nor however do I agree that being a sex object or stripping on Onlyfans is liberating. At all!

Am married, mid fifties. I love a spa massage, doing my make up for a night out and dressing up. My husband loves me in the raw and with my make up on. It's not an insecurity, it's variety which is the spice of life! And when we met, I was wearing painting dungarees, head in a turban and not a scrap of make up.

Invent a problem - create a solution (that doesn't work) - make loads of money. The beauty industry in a nutshell and I loath it.

I remember once being in an art gallery with an ex (he’s an art teacher). He was admiring a lovely photograph of an elderly lady. He said ‘look at how beautiful the wrinkles are.’

We are brainwashed, yes!

I agree.. I'm 41 not 25. The only part of myself that bugs me to look at is the damage I've done to my hair. It used to be naturally massive and curly and years of straightening and bleach have destroyed it. Also used to have a lovely figure.. I would love to be a size 8 again but obviously not enough to actually do anything about it, bigger priorities at the moment and that's fine.
When it comes to beauty standards I've been pretty shocked how different people treat you when you're a bigger size (currently a 14) used to be an 8, hard to explain but I definitely got treated better when I was slim.
When it comes to people making comments about my appearance I've actually found women to be much more critical than men.

Yes, but (without meaning to sound rude) we aren't Ancient Egyptians, don't regard make up as spiritual, and it's only one sex it's aimed at here.

I think it's pretty normal for a man to find the one he loves attractive with or without make up (well, I would hope so!), individual men aren't the issue.

I don't think everyone who wears make up does it because they are insecure, just that they think it makes them look better because we are conditioned to do so, or else why would we spend time and money doing it? If it wasn't a societal expectation you'd see lots of women on nights out or on their wedding day without make up, same as their husbands.

That is the point people are trying to make. It's the reasons behind why women wear make up in the first place (or worse feel they have to get lip fillers, boob jobs and botox at 23). I know you say for variety, but why do men not want that variety for themselves? Or women not want that variety from men?

Yes, but (without meaning to sound rude) we aren't Ancient Egyptians, don't regard make up as spiritual, and it's only one sex it's aimed at here You don't sound rude but I said they regarded beauty as spiritual, like it was a good thing to aspire to, rather than a vain thing.

I definitely agree there is way too much focus on outward appearances in the modern media but, like others, I never feel I've been brainwashed (but then I never fell for the Stay Home, Save Lives, Protect the NHS hypnosis we were bombarded with). It's natural to want to improve on what you have I think. Men certainly have other societal pressures put on them, own a great car, have a high paid job, wear the TAG watch yada yada.

And like I say, throughout history make up and adornments have been worn by both sexes, seems we are heading that way again now with the sales of make up to men increasing year on year.

Yes, I think maybe brainwashing wasn't the best word to use because it's made some people feel it's an attack in their autonomy. It"s what are used to believing, women should wear it and men don't need to so that's the crux of the issue.

Covid is a good example. It's not because people are weak or simpering, we just go along with what society is telling us is normal/expected.

I get your point about it being used to celebrate beauty in Ancient Egypt, and I think if it was celebrated here the same way no one would have an issue. It's just the feeling that we are the only ones who need to beauty ourselves while men just need to be clean 😂

I guarantee he didn't mean on you. It's amazing how benevolent they are when talking about someone else.

Eye rolling at the “men don’t mind” having overheard all male groups a few times. They tear them apart pick on every flaw and grade out of 10 - way worse than women ever are.

Men do definitely get the easier ride in expectation! I had a night away with dh on Saturday. My bag was rather large with a choice of outfits, make up, body lotion etc. He packed a toothbrush, clean underwear and a polo top Still looked good but it was so easy. Having said that, I really enjoy the whole getting dressed up before dinner out somewhere posh.

Agree that beauty standards have always existed. It is human nature to try to make ourselves look younger and more beautiful. I don’t engage with it any more because I’m very lazy and I don’t care about whether I am attractive or not to others. I strive for good health which is a lot more important (and when people are healthy they will generally look good. Maybe not beautiful or young but in good health).

Some of the things I’ve seen in the last 10 years or so have made me do a bit of a double take though. A laser and skin clinic in my town offers a procedure called a ‘labial puff’. This involves putting fillers in the labia. I refuse to believe that more than a small handful of women have ever spontaneously thought: ‘Oh gosh, my labia really aren’t puffy enough, must do something about that’. This is an aesthetic that has presumably come from porn (along with labiaplasty and anal bleaching). It’s a classic example of big business telling us there is something very wrong with us (that we have never noticed or didn’t see as a problem) so that they can sell us a product or service to fix it.

Yes Labiaplasty and anal bleaching is definitely a sign things have gone way too far. Porn is the real enemy, these false standards of always preened and up for it bodies. As I get older, my very laid back attitude to porn of my youth has definitely changed. Especially the extremes it has been taken to, it's positively woman-hating, strangulation and so on.

I feel exactly the same @spuddel. The more extreme types of porn were quite hard to come by pre-internet. Nowadays that IS porn. It’s deeply misogynistic.

we are constantly told we (women) are not good enough. That we have to fix any perceived flaws. That unless we do we aren’t worthy of love, etc. We are taught this from a relatively young age

I must be living on a different planet. Nobody has ever told me any of those theings.

Why do you worry so much about what men like or don't like?

I think the ''brainwashing'' is that physical appearance and appealing to men are what women should be focused on...

When really we should put equal importance on developing our personality, intelligence, talents and so on and living a full life that goes beyond appearances and men's judgements.

It cannot really be argued that anal bleaching is done for one oneself, which symbolises everything that is wrong with the modern beauty industry

I have yet to see a male Calvin Klein underwear model with a beer belly and man boobs.

You need to Google recent Calvin Klein ads. It's nothing like the 90s and all gender woo now.