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Original poster

To think we’ve all been brainwashed (beauty standards)

179 replies

exproblemsforever · 22/05/2023 08:08

I was reading a heartwarming thread on Reddit today about supposed imperfections that men actually live on women. Answers ranged from laughter lines, having a bit of a belly, cellulite, stretch marks, big noses - all of it.

it made me think, we are constantly told we (women) are not good enough. That we have to fix any perceived flaws. That unless we do we aren’t worthy of love, etc. We are taught this from a relatively young age (remember Cosmo magazine).

We must be hair free, no lines, no sun damage, lightly tanned (natural of course but don’t get sun damage), big breasts but they must be firm, a juicy bottom but you mustn’t have cellulite or stretch marks, no fat on your tummy….

it’s all BS.

And I’m not saying to accept ourselves because a bunch of men on the internet said so. It just made me realise that we are just us. We don’t have imperfections. We just are what we are. If we / someone wants to change something that’s all well and good. But to be made to feel we HAVE to, that’s just not ok. It’s just a money making exercise.

Argh sorry rant over. I only slept a couple of hours so I apologise if I am incoherent lol.

OP posts:
8counts · 22/05/2023 09:36

GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal · 22/05/2023 09:22

This is something I've been brooding about lately, as I start to feel increasingly resentful of the (self-imposed?) pressure to stay slim and young-looking as I enter mid-life.

I'm fairly low-maintenance as it goes - I work out and watch what I eat in order to maintain a healthy BMI; I look after my skin and my hair, and I try to put wear reasonably flattering, reasonably fashionable clothes. I don't dye my hair, I've had no "work" done, and I wear no or minimal make up.

But I remember the older women I grew up - absolutely no one expected them to look like anything except older women! The only people expected to look like slender, trendy young things were young women! So middle-aged women got stout, and grey, and wrinkled, and no one cared, and said they'd "let themselves go", were "showing their age", or had got "frumpy" or "mumsy."

They would still dress smartly when the occasion called for it - I've seen old photos of my grandma and great-aunts beautifully turned out for weddings and so on - but no one expected them not to age. And doing so wasn't a crime, not a brave act of rebellion, it was just what happened.

I'm not sure what caused this change, or when it started, but I suspect we're less happy - or at least less content - as a result.

I think the change is down to social media.

I always thought I would never get anything done, and I haven't so far, but I am starting to feel a bit of pressure as I'm nearing 40 and almost everyone I know round my age or younger irl gets a bit of botox at the very least. Seeing all their photos on SM makes me feel a bit shit sometimes. Or even at the school gates when I'm standing next to other Mums!

But I know that's a self esteem issue.

Sissynova · 22/05/2023 09:37

GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal · 22/05/2023 09:31

What, my perception of all the older women I knew was off? Bit patronising.

It is ridiculous to suggest a generation ago women got stout, grey and wrinkly and that no one cared - including themselves.
Salons in the 80s/90s were full of pensioners getting their weekly blue rinse done for a start!
They were still sold face creams with claims of younger fresher skin.

Its simply not true to suggest this is new.

GettingStuffed · 22/05/2023 09:37

I know someone who had lip fillers just before holiday, everyone was telling her not to but she said all her friends have it done. It was a disaster and she's gone on holiday with bad lips.

Worldgonecrazy · 22/05/2023 09:38

@GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal spot on - it really does feel as if accepting ageing, not reaching for the hair dye or Botox, is becoming an act of rebellion. Though perhaps those who do use these things equally feel they are rebelling against ageing?

Missedmytoe · 22/05/2023 09:40

My usual 'go to' for determining if such things are reasonable is to ask myself "would men be expected to meet these standards."
I don't bow to societal pressure but I can see how easy it us to believe that this is the way things should be.

tuvamoodyson · 22/05/2023 09:54

I’m 65. I still try to look the best I can. I don’t have Botox or wear false lashes/tan/nails etc but I still get my hair done regularly, wax regularly, wear what (I think) looks good on me, I don’t blindly follow fashion, I go by the rule that just because they make it in my size doesn’t mean it suits me, I tend to dress for the body I have, not the one I want. I take pride in myself, why not? What others do is up to them, I care not a jot what others think!

1dayatatime · 22/05/2023 09:55

readbooksdrinktea · 22/05/2023 08:31

The best thing you can do for yourself is to not give a shit about what men think about your looks.

Whilst I fully agree with you I fear the fiercest critics of women's physical appearance is other women.

GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal · 22/05/2023 09:55

"It is ridiculous to suggest a generation ago women got stout, grey and wrinkly and that no one cared - including themselves.
Salons in the 80s/90s were full of pensioners getting their weekly blue rinse done for a start!
They were still sold face creams with claims of younger fresher skin."

I'm not saying they stopped caring - my grandma in particular bordered on vain - but that no one, including themselves, expected them to carry on looking young when they weren't.

Whereas today there seems to be this pressure for women to remain forever 27 - and if you don't, you've either given up completely (how many threads to we see per week from women appealing for help because they're worried they look "frumpy" or old?) or you're a brave feminist warrior sticking it to society. Instead of it just being, you look older because you are older, and that's ok.

Georgeandzippyzoo · 22/05/2023 09:56

I've never felt that I need to do those things . I rarely wear make up, I do go to hairdressers every few weeks but for basic wash and cut. Never had my nail or been waxed etc professionally. And was told yesterday (in long style shorts) that I could do with some false tan on my legs (by a woman)! No thanks!

I know women who've been married yrs who still get up to put their make up on before their husband sees them ( not for work).

This is me , like it or lump it.

southlondoner02 · 22/05/2023 10:00

Well it's capitalism for you isn't it? Selling us more and more 'stuff' we don't really need through making us think we need it.

1dayatatime · 22/05/2023 10:01

"Comparison is the thief of happiness" and the problem with social media is that you are constantly bombarded by post from people you do or don't know showing a perfect life (they only post the interesting things they do and not things like doing the laundry or clearing up dog poo!) and perfect photos of themselves (that have been edited beyond reality).

So that people feel their lives are crap in comparison to someone or something that doesn't even exist in reality.

Want to be happier then stay off social media (but it's addictive!)

Sirloinwithlove · 22/05/2023 10:02

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Previously banned poster.

8counts · 22/05/2023 10:03

I've never felt that I need to do those things . I rarely wear make up, I do go to hairdressers every few weeks but for basic wash and cut. Never had my nail or been waxed etc professionally.

This is the same as me and it's never bothered me before, I think it's noticing all the lines that are appearing rather than wanting to wear make up/get nails done etc.

FacebookFun · 22/05/2023 10:08

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The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

FacebookFun · 22/05/2023 10:08

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The OP has privacy concerns and so we've agreed to take this down.

WandaWonder · 22/05/2023 10:09

I don't blame social media but you are following people who are into the fake look, botox, people obsessed with their looks etc. what do toy expect?

I use some social media and if anyone I follow on there is into beauty it's news to me

defi · 22/05/2023 10:15

In mid 30s and happily entering my old crone era

CaptainMyCaptain · 22/05/2023 10:16

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines. Previously banned poster.

This.

8counts · 22/05/2023 10:23

WandaWonder · 22/05/2023 10:09

I don't blame social media but you are following people who are into the fake look, botox, people obsessed with their looks etc. what do toy expect?

I use some social media and if anyone I follow on there is into beauty it's news to me

It just depends on the people you know. I don't follow any beauty pages or celebrities/influencers and not everyone I know gets things done, or everything done, but the majority of people I see in person (mostly 30/40 year old professionals) get at least botox. And there are quite a few (including my sister) who have had teeth done, tan injections, boob job. I think that is too much personally and I'd be worried going down that route because once you start where does it end (not to mention the risks), but she does look fabulous.

ImAGoodPerson · 22/05/2023 10:24

exproblemsforever · 22/05/2023 09:13

Other narratives we are fed (including here);
ALL men cheat
ALL men prefer younger women
(in in their biology don’t you know).

My experience in real life is that men definitely are not anywhere near as bothered about our 'imperfections'.

When I was younger and fit (toned, no wrinkles etc) I had some attention, mostly men my age or older.

Now I am in my 40s I get a lot more attention. I am heavier, definitely facially don't look as good but I am probably more confident and relaxed in some ways. However I am still massively unhappy personally with how I look regardless of the fact I am apparently attractive to some men who really never noticed me 5 years ago.

The trouble is with the statement you have made above is that for a high number of men I believe that is actually true sadly. When I was younger I thought that very few men cheated and it was only those in long unhappy marriages etc. As I have got older IME this isn't true. In the last couple of years I have had 'offers' from men who are in relatively new relationships that are supposedly serious and from 1 who had a 6 week old baby with his wife. Most of these men are 15+ years younger than me. I'm really not all that but there is definitely something about younger men/older women that I had no clue existed till I hit 40.

I don't think men are saying they don't care about these imperfections to make themselves look good, they may see fit young women on tv or at a distance and think they look great, I mean I definitely find toned good looking men attractive to look at but in RL a bit of a beer belly really doesn't worry me in any way and I genuinely think most men aren't too bothered about perfection.

chaosmaker · 22/05/2023 10:26

exproblemsforever · 22/05/2023 08:08

I was reading a heartwarming thread on Reddit today about supposed imperfections that men actually live on women. Answers ranged from laughter lines, having a bit of a belly, cellulite, stretch marks, big noses - all of it.

it made me think, we are constantly told we (women) are not good enough. That we have to fix any perceived flaws. That unless we do we aren’t worthy of love, etc. We are taught this from a relatively young age (remember Cosmo magazine).

We must be hair free, no lines, no sun damage, lightly tanned (natural of course but don’t get sun damage), big breasts but they must be firm, a juicy bottom but you mustn’t have cellulite or stretch marks, no fat on your tummy….

it’s all BS.

And I’m not saying to accept ourselves because a bunch of men on the internet said so. It just made me realise that we are just us. We don’t have imperfections. We just are what we are. If we / someone wants to change something that’s all well and good. But to be made to feel we HAVE to, that’s just not ok. It’s just a money making exercise.

Argh sorry rant over. I only slept a couple of hours so I apologise if I am incoherent lol.

Haven't women always said they do all the beauty crap for themselves and it doesn't matter what some bloke thinks. Personally I couldn't care less how I look but it apparently makes others think less of me in appearance alone. Am not bothered and think the beauty industry fools loads of people in the same way that the fashion world does. It's all irrelevant and a distraction to reality.

We are enough as we are!

SpringNotSprung · 22/05/2023 10:31

I'm in my 60s.
I have never had: botox, plastic surgery, false nails, false eyelashes, fake tan, etc.

My DC are in their 20s. Neither have they.

We all have a good hairdresser, mine is coloured dd's and dil's highlighted, we have all had cosmetic work on our teeth.

We wear make-up and clothes for ourselves, that we like.

I think you must be mixing with very shallow people.

User135644 · 22/05/2023 10:35

Men really aren't that bothered about a lot of these supposed imperfections. Much of it comes from social media or women's magazines.

ImAGoodPerson · 22/05/2023 10:37

GreeboIsMySpiritAnimal · 22/05/2023 09:55

"It is ridiculous to suggest a generation ago women got stout, grey and wrinkly and that no one cared - including themselves.
Salons in the 80s/90s were full of pensioners getting their weekly blue rinse done for a start!
They were still sold face creams with claims of younger fresher skin."

I'm not saying they stopped caring - my grandma in particular bordered on vain - but that no one, including themselves, expected them to carry on looking young when they weren't.

Whereas today there seems to be this pressure for women to remain forever 27 - and if you don't, you've either given up completely (how many threads to we see per week from women appealing for help because they're worried they look "frumpy" or old?) or you're a brave feminist warrior sticking it to society. Instead of it just being, you look older because you are older, and that's ok.

This is so true. My nan looked 'elderly' in her 60s, my mum looks glam still in her late 60s (no botox or surgery but definitely dresses well and looks good). My nan looked old and frumpy however she always cared about how she looked, she still did her make up and had her hair done weekly by a hairdresser until she died at 98. I always bought her eyebrow pencil when I got her makeup bless her.

I think things are changing though, I don't know anyone who thinks Madonna for instance looks better with all that work than Helen Mirren or someone like that. Ageing gracefully definitely is more attractive IME to men, and also to other women.

I am definitely looking to improve my appearance as I am unhappy, I will get some intense facials and maybe tear trough fillers. Just for myself though, not for anyone else.

EmmaEmerald · 22/05/2023 10:38

"I worry that the internet generation have gone is far down a digital rabbit hole they lost touch with their own bodies"

yes. a lot of looks are designed with online photos in mind, and look quite odd in real life.