Sibs think we should sell to pay care home fees

[SeriouslyTryadifferentstory]

Context: Victorian semi, converted into two one bed flats by myself and my parents in the '90s. I married and DH and I have continued to live in and own the ground floor flat, with extension and garden (and paid off the bloody mortgage!) , parents owned (paid for outright) and lived in the upper flat. Mum died a decade ago and Dad has recently moved into a care home so his flat has to be sold to pay the fees. DH is also battling a chronic illness.

My brothers (2 of them) think that we should "just sell the whole house and we'll find you "somewhere to live". My Sis is telling them to back off and I just want everyone to go away and leave me alone.

Sorry, just needed to vent.

Seems odd they’d expect you to sell
your own home. Who originally purchased the property? Does it belong to you and your parents or you just lived there as a child and never moved out?

You say you own it and paid the mortgage but do you mean you paid off renovations to make it a conversion but the actual property is only in your parents name? Is there a will or anything legally giving you ownership?

If you own it then don’t even worry, it’s nothing to do with them, they can say what they like but they can’t make you move out, however if you don’t legally own it, was all just done casually between you and your parents, I’d urge you to get legal advice TBH.

2 things to consider- 1) if it’s worth more to sell both together so you could get a bump up property ladder with your slightly inflated share 2) You’re used to living underneath your elderly parent but what if it’s bought by party animals/ large family with young children/ people with big noisy dogs? Your enjoyment of the flat would vastly diminish. Consider the suggestion if you were thinking of upsizing at some point

Are you the legal owner of your property?
This is key

Hopefully the above won’t happen as OP’s family will have an element of control over who the dad sells his flat to.
This does seem an odd request from brothers - I wonder if they haven’t accepted that you’ve paid for your flat and it is yours ? i wonder what their reasoning is !

Not enough info. Might be best to sort out now rather than later though especially if you DH has serious health issues. Otherwise the upstairs flat will probably end up having to be sold for your fathers care home. I would be nervous to live in a bottom floor flat in Victorian semi if I didn't know who was going to live above me. (Although lots of people do this!)
Unfortunately shutting down and not dealing with this might prolong your distress. Talking about such difficult things with your siblings will be hard but if you do and if you can reach an agreement then you should feel more relaxed.
It's very difficult having a parent in a care home. I hope he does well there.
BTW what does your husband think?
I'm also wandering if your parents helped you financially.

Dad has recently moved into a care home so his flat has to be sold to pay the fees.
Are the flats able to be sold separately or are they one title still? Do you legally own your flat on a separate title. If they're separate title and you own your flat all you need to do is say no. If the issue is that you don't have a separate title to your flat you need a lawyer to untangle this. If a sale can be forced to pay care home fees and you don't have separate legal title just in your/ your & DH name you really need a specialist in property law to look over all the details of the case and work out if you have a claim or not. I hope that's not the case for your and your DH sake.

Can your parents' flat be rented to pay some of the care home fees pending a decision.

Does your brother think that if your parents had retained the whole house it would have been shared equally four ways? Is there a belief that the division of the property between you and your parents led to unfair gain on your part?

Who has been caring for your father for the last 10 years? You? Or has it been split four ways?

That downstairs is your home. Of course you shouldn't be selling it.

Is the upstairs flat in a good condition such that it can be reasonably rented out? Would the rent be sufficient to cover the fees?

When the property owned by a care home resident can't be sold because it is someone else's home too, there is no expectation that the property should be sold to pay the fees. The same principle applies to some extent and you certainly should not be forced out of your home, but what is the long-term expectation for once your dad eventually passes on? It doesn't sound like you will be in a position to buy out your siblings shares of the inheritance (whatever there is left) so you can't take ownership of the whole house. So you either need to sell the upstairs flat or rent it out anyway. I think it's best to work out which one of those would be the long term plan, and do it now. But you certainly keep your home. Your brothers do not control that, it is your property and it is not for sale.

You have to do what is legally right, that is as far as your obligations go, if you can legally not sell the flat then of course don't sell it

That is your flat, and by other posts it sounds like you don't have to sell it, don't be bullied.

You paid off the mortgage, but whose name is your flat actually in?

It won’t need to be divided. There are two flats. Op owns one, and has paid for it with a mortgage. Even if she decides to sell her flat it is a completely separate property (or she wouldn’t have got a mortgage) and all the proceeds of her sale would belong to her. She’d be stupid to start supporting care feeds from the sale of her home.

Why on earth would you sell your own home when you DF has a flat to sell. I'm sure you siblings are not offering to sell their homes to fund the care home fees.

If you've paid off the mortgage then the flat must be in your name? In that case I'd stay. Forget what siblings have said. You'll end up worse off,.possibly homeless. Ignore them. My sibling was so greedy when my mum died. The same day she passed, she drove down and stole all of the jewelry and cash. Please ignore your siblings, don't listen to them. The flat's yours and its paid off making you financially secure, which you need as your husband's ill.

I'd be interested to know their rationale for selling the whole thing tbh.

It's none of your siblings business if you sell. However my inlaws are in this exact position and they have decided to sell. The upper flat is now rented and whilst the family above are very quiet they are not as quiet as 2 x 90 year olds. The hardest part is the emotional side, every time we hear them in the garden we are waiting for grandad to pop his head over the garden wall to say hi. When we have leftovers from a family meal we no longer run up the stairs with it to give to them. There was something so nice about having them so close and it's not the same now so they are selling too.

Tell your brothers that you will not be selling your home.
Then refuse to discuss it again.

How does it work with the freehold etc is is two separate flats and you both own them

Are they also selling their homes to fund the care? Because how is it any different?

Agreed more info needed

I think you need to seek legal advice here. Get it sorted out legally now.

Sadly when your father dies it sounds like the siblings are expecting a ‘share’ of your flat too
if it’s all above board and your flat is yours and paid, for then stand your ground and refuse to discuss it again.

Do your brothers think your father owns your flat? Do you have paperwork saying you own it outright? If you do great, tell them to fuck off and sell their homes. If you don’t have legal paperwork supporting your ownership and you’ve spent loads of money on it without proof then you are a bit foolish and in a spot of trouble if they force the issue

Yes I think it depends. If it was a gift to OP (which is possible even with a mortgage - could have been for the works to the property or a part mortgage) then siblings would be justified in wanting an equal right to the inheritance.

It sounds like there is either some resentment or some ignorance about how things have worked out if your brothers think that your home is somehow still part of your DF’s estate. Tell them you will sell your home when they sell theirs, meanwhile the only property in question is the upstairs flat.

If the flats are totally separate the flat you own is absolutely nothing to do with them. House might get a better price as one but still not their business.