How to navigate being the childfree friend

[Somethingaboutnorma]

Looking for advice not judgement please and on to navigate this. Very long.

Im in my mid 30s as are most of my close friends. Out of my social group of close friends I’m the only one that is childfree/single, by choice.

My friends all starting getting married and having children within the last 5 years, apart from one who had a daughter when she was 20.

My issue is that whilst I understand we have reached different points in our lives and friendships change I can’t help feel I’m being left behind because I’m childfree.

Over the years we’ve always celebrated milestones such as new job/ house/promotion/weddings etc which I’ve made a real effort with such as sending congratulations cards, visits, organising hen dos etc.

But since the children I have come along I can’t help notice that they don’t make an effort anymore. I completely understand they will be busy and probably won’t even care that much but it seems a little thoughtless after I’ve celebrated my friends so much.

For example, last year I decided to quit my corporate job and retrain as a nurse and the year before I bought my own flat. Both big accomplishments for me but my friends didn’t send a card despite me sending them gifts when they bought theirs or got new jobs/promotions. I haven’t received a birthday card either in a few years despite sending them cards and gifts as well as cards and gifts for their children too, only two of them sent an a actual birthday text.

I invited them all to my birthday last year but none could make it due to childcare which is fair enough but always made the effort to attend their birthdays/child birthdays, despite being very busy.

I have one friend who isn’t in the friendships group who is a single mother, I don’t know if that makes a different, whilst the others are married or have partners that will make a effort with me, as well as me making the effort with her, we’ll go out just us without her child or do stuff with the child.

Unlike my friend this friendship group only seems to meet in family friendly places/events. Which can be a bit lonely as they all bring their family along and I’m there alone. When I have suggested an adult day/night they are keen but something always comes up. I don’t mind going to family friendly events but it seems to be all the time, there isn’t a balance. Plus being selfish I don’t want to spend my only day off in that environment. Apart from my friend who is the single mother I have one close friend who is single and child free so can spend time with them doing more adult friendly activities.

Do I just suck this up and accept that I will have to attend these events until the children are much older? Or do I just have shit friends that seem not to be interested in me and make little effort. As much as I like my friends it seems we don’t have much in common anymore and it’s being life long friends that binds us together.

I have children and still value all my old friends (including the child free friends of course). I like to think I'm there for them and will always celebrate their achievements or support them through difficult times.
The only thing I do struggle with is one particular child free friend who lives in another city. She wants to meet up ALL the time. Given how far apart we are this means a full day together at the weekend. I find this so hard to do frequently because of family commitments at the weekend but also my commitments to my parents who are now old and frail (her parents are still fairly young and fit). She doesn't understand that having children and elderly parents and in law's mean I just don't have as much free time as her.

Good post.

I think many people on Mn, where there’s a high percentage of posters who struggle with friendship dynamics, are way too reactive, short-term and trigger-happy in friendships. Proper friendships are a longterm thing, and can survive some lapses, fallow periods and time out. I had my only child late, so for a long time was the childfree friend, but my friends with children are all coming out of the ‘dependent child’ stage, while I’m still in it, and they’re now cutting me some slack. Swings and roundabouts.

Think about widening your friendship circle, especially to include other childfree people, or parents of older children/adult children, so you recognise you’re not some kind of anomaly.

There is a massive lack of empathy and understanding on this thread. People are literally admitting that they know they are being worse friends than they want to be and/or that they're personally feeling overwhelmed, but they're getting slated for it, called lazy, shit friends etc.

Makes me wonder whether the thread was actually started for advice or just to bash parents who have less time/energy for friendships.

There's a difference between having 'less' time and having no time. As long as those who cannot even muster the energy to set a calendar reminder for a birthday, send a text if nothing more when someone moves house or meets a big milestone don't moan that they don't have those friends waiting round for years for them to have time then that's fine. I also imagine many manage to maintain friendships with other parents.

@EmptyBedBlues

I think many people on Mn, where there’s a high percentage of posters who struggle with friendship dynamics, are way too reactive, short-term and trigger-happy in friendships. Proper friendships are a longterm thing, and can survive some lapses, fallow periods and time out.

This is a really important point and something we don't talk about enough. People these days often seem to have a hair trigger approach to friendships and are incredibly quick to burn a friendship which is not totally optimal because of a minor flashpoint or disagreement.

You see this sort of thing on threads all the time: someone will come on to post that their friend stood them up for lunch because their child was ill and there will be a deluge of "block her/ghost her/she's not a friend" responses.

I think social media has a lot to answer for here. Having boundaries on social media to guard against bad behaviour is a good tactic but it doesn't really translate to friendships, where there is a need for more give and take.

I have friends who I've known for 25+ years and at various points I've fallen out with all of them or felt that they are no longer delivering what I need. Most of these, given time and space, have recovered. One of my closest friends and I didn't communicate at all for eight years because neither of us was in the right place. We waited it out and rekindled the friendship later. Sometimes friendships aren't right for where you are at this moment but that doesn't mean you have to crash and burn them.

It's impossible for a friend to deliver everything for you, just as it is with a partner. It's not realistic to flounce off every time a friend fails to be everything to you.

This isn't directed at the OP in particular, and I think the OP is in quite a tough position. It's more a comment around this broader culture which requires people to cut friends out because they can't be there for you around the clock.

Its not realistic and kicking off about this is usually an exercise in cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I was very lonely in my mid 30s for this reason. My advice would be to give it a few years - most friendships bounce back as the children get older and more dependent. In the mean time, learn to enjoy your own company (sorry if that sounds a bit bleak but it helps), and make new friends - other CFBC people and empty nesters are ideal.

I don't disagree, and I said previously that it's a bit crap that they can't send a happy birthday text.

But even if people don't set the reminders, or do set them but forget anyway, or whatever - I would have thought good friendships between adults could survive these things with a little bit of understanding.

Whilst I know are are trying to give sound advice I don’t agree with the “I don’t understand what it’s like to be exhausted and mentally drained” just because I don’t have children. I worked a corporate job for 15 years so know what’s it’s like to feel exhausted and now training as a nurse working 4x 12.5 hour shifts on top of uni days so yes I know what it’s like to be mentally drained.

But you have no idea what its like to do the corporate job AND go home to toddler twins, or do the nursing shifts and also have a baby and a teenager, etc etc?

I mean, you can argue about whether your work is more or less tiring than being a SAHP, I guess, but at least when you work you get actual breaks and plenty of days off.
But you can't argue that working is just as tiring as working AND raising children,.

And really, expecting cards and celebrations for your new job is just plain odd.

This sounds tough. I am also child free by choice but actually, out of my friendship group, only one has chosen to have a child. Everyone else has chosen not to and now at 40 it's probably going to stay that way. I'm not sure why it's transpired like that but it has and it means I don't really have the issues you have.

I think that your friends are (understandably) preoccupied with family life right now. Their life has moved on and I think there is nothing you can do to change that. Could you try meeting new people? I met a few people a few years ago on Meetup.com and it worked well. It often attracts people who don't have a family or whose kids are older as they have the time to socialise.

We don't understand what it's like to be tired either, etc etc.

Step back from your friends but keep the door open. Try to cultivate with others who are childfree by choice. That's what I did.

They sound just like shit friends tbh.

As a parent I have loads of childfree friends I make time for/message/meet up with. Sometimes solo, sometimes with my child. Ironically they're often the people I go to for advice/thoughts on varying parenting issues as I've found they tend to think outside the box instead of just telling me to do whatever worked for them!

I suggest also trying to make a decent group of childfree friends. And other friends from different areas of life. Hobbies, volunteering etc. Your parent friends might stick around somewhat or might disappear from your life but it'll be easier to cope with when you don't just have them.

I agree with every word of this!
I have a toddler who is an appalling sleeper, a busy job and a fair few family problems bubbling away and I somehow manage to message and hang out with child-free friends. A couple of hours in their company really energises and uplifts me and I come back to the madness of family life with a spring in my step after seeing them. And yes, I ask for their advice on parenting matters as well.
My parents always invested in their own friendships even when they had a house full of small kids and this is something I want to emulate. Actually us kids reaped the benefits of this because it meant that my mum and dad had emotional support and other outlets when we hit a series of really awful family crises when I was in my teen years. Friendships are such an important part of the fabric of life - including for parents!

Yes!

Friendship has always been one of the most important things to me throughout life so I've spent a lot of time and energy cultivating and investing in various friendships. I'm not someone who has hundreds of them but I do have a good close group of friends from different parts of life that I spend time with. It's a long game thing I find.

Nothing energises me more (other than live music) than going for a coffee for an hour with a friend and catching up. It genuinely fills my bucket before returning to home.

I absolutely hate when you see people sneer at the idea that childfree/childless people might be a good resources for parenting advice, it's very judgmental.

Good posts, @EmptyBedBlues and @Thepeopleversuswork.

I have likewise had fallow periods, fall-outs or periods when I've chosen to step back with several longterm friends, and the friendships have recovered, and in at least one case, are all the stronger for it. Not directing this at the OP either, but I agree, I wonder whether the idea of sm 'friends' who can be blocked at the click of a mouse etc has trickled over, damagingly, into real life friendships?

Take the long view, OP. If you value these people and their continuing presence in your life, don't cut off your nose to spite your face because of a lack of birthday texts and cards.

I suspect most people who rely on MN for support don’t have friends or struggle making friendships. In my opinion - yes they are shit friends. I found this with some of my mum friends when DD was non-verbal and still in nappies at 5. They literally left us out, arranged plans without us, lied when I tried to arrange playdates. Then she started at the ‘status symbol’ local private school, we got help for her ASD, and it became clear she was extremely intelligent & they suddenly found the time for us but by then we weren’t interested.

Prioritise yourself. If you don’t like how they’re treating you, cut them loose and make new friends. Life is far, far too short to spend it with users.

My best friend and I both had kids around the same time. We actually live in the same town but hardly ever see each other as our kids are at different schools, are different genders and have different interests. We still meet up occasionally but it is much more difficult now and we don't do birthday cards etc. Any more. It's absolutely fine though because we both understand completely the reason it's happened and we have a lot of empathy with each other due to being in the same position. As the kids get older we will have more time for each other again and it'll be fine. I don't get pissed off when she doesn't reply to my texts and vice versa because we both get it.

It sounds to me like you have very little empathy for your friends' situations and they maybe don't even realise you feel this way.

My closest friend is child free and I think could probably have written a similar post to yours when we were at a similar stage in our lives. She felt lonely and left out, and I spent seven years in haze of parental exhaustion so bad that I'm honestly not sure how I survived. She found some other friends to go out with. I found friends who had kids of similar ages and who were also spending all their free time being exhausted in playgrounds to hang out with, and we saw each other when we could, which wasn't all that often. But we loved each other and hung in there even when we resented each other.

And them my kids got older and needed me less, and I got a job and could afford to go out, and the children became interesting enough for her to want to spend time with them, and now I'm able to support her when she's stressed from the demanding career she developed when I was a SAHP, and my teenager can look after her cats when she goes on holiday, and I have her over for a meal every couple of weeks because she works such long hours that mealtimes are often the only times she can spare to spend time with me. Instead of staying up late feeding a baby, I stay up with her helping her with her application for promotion, and dealing with her aging parents.

With a strong friendship, like any long term worthwhile relationship, things won't always be equally balanced, but over the course of a lifetime, you will both go through times of being the supporter and the supported, the person who puts in the effort and the person who has to be persuaded into meeting up. And if you don't think the friends you have are worth waiting for, move on, and finds who are.

"Over the years we’ve always celebrated milestones such as new job/ house/promotion/weddings etc which I’ve made a real effort with such as sending congratulations cards, visits, organising hen dos etc."

"For example, last year I decided to quit my corporate job and retrain as a nurse and the year before I bought my own flat. Both big accomplishments for me but my friends didn’t send a card despite me sending them gifts when they bought theirs or got new jobs/promotions. I haven’t received a birthday card either in a few years despite sending them cards and gifts as well as cards and gifts for their children too, only two of them sent an a actual birthday text."

These two comments stood out to me, as well as a couple of others asking a similar vein, mostly because it made me pause and think to myself - I don't send people cards for most things, even birthdays. I never have - a birthday I might send a text or post on their social media; anniversaries nothing (that's their do, not mine); moving house or getting a new job or promotion I'll say congrats if they make a social media post, or if they tell me in person, but I certainly wouldn't save the date, or probably even remember it.

And then I noticed that it's all you - you've been sending cards, you've been sending gifts, you've organised celebrations, etc etc. But have they? Did they ever, or is it something that you do? Because I have a couple of friends who are similar (not childfree, by the way) and I remember one of them started to turn into a bit of hard work because of the amount of effort (and cash) we all felt obligated to put into marking fairly mundane things that most people just wouldn't mark. In the end we all quietly backed out of doing them all, which did annoy her I think; but I guess she's realised by now that most people just don't have the same amount of time, spare money, or indeed energy, as they get older, and just aren't interested in doing all this!

I don't know, it just seems to me that you're the kind of person who likes to prioritise this kind of thing, nothing wrong with that; but your friends are probably more like the vast majority of other people who don't prioritise it, and there's nothing wrong with that either! I don't think anyone is unreasonable here, I just think your expectations are entirely different to theirs, and I'm not sure it's even directly related to the parenting, except that saps time, money and energy more than most other things so they're putting things they wouldn't bother with on the back burner for now.

I’d just like to say one thing. Being a carer 24/7 for someone is the most exhausting thing. Whether that’s a baby/children or a parent who lives with you.

Caring for a relative/friend who doesn’t live with you is not the same. There is built in respite there.

I have children. I have also worked for many years on the frontline in the NHS. Both are exhausting but children trumps work (almost) every time. There is no day off. There’s no evening off. There’s (often) not much predictability.

I have also been a carer for elderly relatives but they didn’t live with me. The people they lived with had a completely different experience and I could see they were beyond shattered and exhausted much of the time. Actually beyond how I felt with newborns!

Im not a shit friend and I do try to remember my friends birthdays and I celebrate their life milestones. BUT my children will always come first and although I can send a card/text, I can rarely go out without my children tagging along. It’s too complicated and costly to organise childcare.

OP, I’m sorry you’ve felt hurt. But really and truly, it is another level of exhaustion and commitment when you have children. My 16 hour NHS shifts were often bone achingly tiring but being woken throughout the night for many years was so much worse. I also got paid for my NHS years 😆

Id do it all again. My children are my best achievement and I love them beyond compare. But OH MY GOODNESS, if you don’t have children you really don’t get it.

"And for the others who said that my parent friends were just too busy, or I wasn’t as busy as them, or wouldn’t know what it’s like until I have kids. I suspect you are the “shit friends” and you know it."

Evidently the OP didn't read my post. I said that they almost certainly know this about themselves, hate it about themselves, but simply cannot do or remember more than they already. But evidently you are more interested in being bitter than understanding.

If you're this rude and unreasonable in RL, I can see a reason why they aren't so desperate to see you anymore.

I agree with this. I definitely experienced tiredness before my baby was born and plenty of other challenges, but this is a different level altogether.

The OP seems very set in her ideas though and I’m not sure I’d able to really appreciate how things change beyond recognition when a baby comes along.

You probably would notice if you'd failed to speak to her in 6 years, though - you sound like a much better friend than mine were. It is harsh but friendship is two-way and if you don't contact me at all for years then I can't see that I'm obligated to keep trying with you.

My best friend doesn't have kids. I used to see her most weekends, or go out on weekday evenings. My childcare was very limited as the kids wouldn't sleep for anyone else when they were tiny and dp worked long hours. My friend accepted that meeting up would move to day time and mostly involve the kids being there too. I see her just as much because of these adaptations to our socialising. It was hard to commit to meeting people in the nappy / push chair years, but that also included other parents of small children. They would be an hour late due to nap overrunning or similar that just makes you feel they don't care. It is a lot easier now though as they are mainly school age and put up with babysitters. I was shit at remembering birthdays or life events before kids, so no one would have expected cards from me before that. I would try and meet the. With the kids for now and also try to meet new people, whether through work or hobbies, to add to your circle.

Agree with this.

Perhaps it's evidenced by the fact that all of her life long friends are this way. They are probably struggling.

She wants accomplishments celebrated. She is thriving. Her friend probably feel they are barely surviving.

Either that or her narrative.... She is lovely, they are all selfish. Which is more likely