to ask who is in the wrong here?

[bringincrazyback]

Perspectives on a row DH and I just had would be appreciated. I'm beyond frustrated at this point.

Context is housework that needs doing before a few days away. (Further context: DH's mother is a dyed-in-the-wool traditionalist who never taught any of her sons how to do housework, because their wives would do all that kind of thing.)

DH never takes the initiative with anything housework-wise, literally doesn't seem to know how to do certain things, and unless directly asked by me, does none apart from doing the bins, a bit of cooking and washing up. No actual cleaning unless asked a million times. Arguments over housework, and the need to do more of it, are frequent because he doesn't care what state the house is in and thinks I should stop being uptight and do next to no housework. Not happening. (For info, I have ME and various pain issues which mean I have to pace myself carefully where things like housework are concerned.)

Earlier this evening:
Me: Will you have time to give me a hand with the housework over the next couple of evenings?
DH: Yes, of course, just text me a list. (I always get this 'text me a list' business, even when I tell him verbally what needs doing. He seems incapable of seeing for himself what needs doing.)
Me: Well, W, X, Y and Z need doing. I don't like texting a list, it makes me feel like I'm issuing orders.
DH while I've been telling him what needs doing: several repetitions of 'yeah, yeah,' which usually means (and I think this time is no exception) that he isn't listening.

So I get cracking, do as much as I am able, but not the stuff I'd already asked him to do, stupidly thinking he'll come and do it as he appeared to have agrred to do.
DH spends the whole evening in his man cave.

Conversation at bedtime:
Me: You will be able to help with the housework tomorrow, right?
DH: You didn't text me a list.
Me: No, but I told you what needed doing.
DH: That's not my recollection. I said to text me a list.
Me: I didn't need to, I told you what needed doing.

A bit more verbal ping-pong and he's claiming he's 'always' cleaning the kitchen worktop and the area where the cats' bowls are. By 'cleaning' it transpires he means sweeping his hand over the surfaces, catching bits and binning them. Possibly passing a damp cloth over them at most.

Me: You need to use the anti-bacterial spray as well.
DH: (makes a contemptuous noise) No one needs to use anti-bacterial spray unless they're Michael Jackson.
(There's a whole list of things normal sensible people do, which he deems unnecessary and neurotic, apparently this is one of them... a few years back he sneered at me for saying toilets needed cleaning under the rim and said didn't I know how gravity works?)

A bit of further quarrelling and he huffs out of bed and stomps to the spare room with the words, 'I'm an adult, I make my own decisions.'

AIBU for expecting him (as an adult, as he's so at pains to tell me) to use a bit more initiative, to not just weasel out of keeping promises on a technicality, and... to actually listen to me?

I was struck by your comment about antibacterial spray.
My fiance has occasionally said I've got OCD because I like to wipe down the kitchen sides daily and bleach the sink once a week 😅

My husband was also raised by parents who didn't prepare him to live independently. I had a hodge podge approach from my own parents.

Our way of tackling it for food shopping, for example, it to sit down and write a HUGE masterlist. Absolutely everything you could possibly buy, even if we barely ever need it.

When food shopping comes around, we sit down with the list in turn and add what we want to cook with/need for the house. Takes about 20m total, and the megalist means you can't forget.

In my experience, even if the OP had sent a list the jobs either wouldn’t have been done or been moaned through. The list was his excuse.

Next time you have that conversation and he asks you to text him, tell him to get his phone out, open the notes app and then he can type down the list as you tell it to him.

We just write down what we need as and when we use it through the week, then when one of us goes shopping (whoever has some spare time) we just buy what's on the list and ask if anyone has any special requests just before we go. Surely that's quicker than poring over a whole master list every week?

Oh I'd love to just sit on my arse and wait for DH to allocate me a few things to do, while he is responsible for planning and noticing and doing everything else. "Why don't you just text him" - because he lives there and has eyes? Why made her a household manager?

Because hygiene. HTH.

I’m with you, OP. It’s honestly pathetic any grown adult expecting another adult to write them a list of household chores. You told him - if he needs a list he can write it himself. He’s basically just giving you another chore whilst dodging the rest himself.

But it does sound like you are reaching the end of your tether and I get it. When you have two adults the housework should be halved, but I find a lot of the time it’s just doubled for one party and lessened for the other and really it’s shit.

It reminds me of this article, which I often think about:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/she-divorced-me-i-left-dishes-by-the-sink_b_9055288

Voted YABU for the antibacterial spray. Any microbiologist will tell you that all you need for kitchen surfaces is a wipe with warm water and detergent. Are you trying to breed superbugs?Given you're not very specific on the rest of the tasks, there's nothing to tell me they aren't equally over the top.

Just text him the list.

OP may I suggest you read Fair Play by Eve Rodsky (and then fling it at your husbands head!)

(apologies if the book has already been mentioned.)

I spent 7 years complaining to DH that he wasn't helping with the Housework and arguing because he couldn't see what needed doing and was always asking for lists and it made me so angry. Turns out surprise he's autistic (we both are) and he needs the list to see it and refer to as that's how his brain works. I made a reusable to-do list with his Housework on it and laminated it and no more arguments and he does more than his fair share now!

Just make the list or do it yourself and stop moaning, you are picking battles that don't need to be picked. Been there, done that

Yeah but if you actually wanted to prioritise the ‘hygiene’ over just being right then you’d text him the list. He finds a list easier, you are telling him what you want either way, so just text the list and avoid moaning on here. You married him
knowing exactly what he was like, work together.

Another here saying text him.

For context, my DD asked me to pick up something specific with the weekly shop this week. I got to the shop and couldn’t for the life of me remember what it was. I have a terrible short term memory for things said to me. Especially if there’s any slight die’s reaction about.

At least if you text him he can’t deny being given the list.

Or do the old fashioned thing and leave a paper list.

Nothing about my household regime is 'over the top' given lack of time and my state of health. It's way less than most people do, tbh. And I use anti-bac spray pretty sparingly.

I think some posters have missed my post clarifying that he manages fine with verbal lists at other times.

That looks interesting, I might check it out, thanks.

(And @CountZacular I found that article way too relatable. 😄)

There is also a card deck type game you can do as a couple to help divide up chores and assign responsibility. Also loads of resource related to it on Instagram if you search #fairplay

Yeah but he’s an adult and he asked you to text the list, he’s allowed preferences.

Well, I don't know tbh.

He is of course an adult and he should not need you to manage him. He lives in the house and should be able to work out what needs doing for himself.

On the other hand, it sounds like he has different standards to you, so if you want him to clean according to your standards or expectations, then I don't think it's unreasonable of him to ask for a list.

I think it also depends on wider questions, like whether you both work full time and share equal responsibility for the household stuff or whether you have the kind of division of labour where he might see you as the person who manages the household and therefore issues the instructions

But his preference is that his wife organises his chores, like a child rather than a fully functioning adult. His preference means he has no responsibility.

Clearly though -clean kitchen means something much more in-depth to the op than her husband who would sweep up a few counter tops and do washing up.

Whereas she may mean
Wash floor
Clean oven inside and out
Etc etc
So if he does his idea he is WRONG

sone sort of master list of what a task involves is probably needed.

"Yeah but he’s an adult and he asked you to text the list, he’s allowed preferences."

It appears that his preference is that his partner does all the work necessary to make maintain a clean and pleasant living space.

It's a fair point that standards can be different - the Fair Play also says to agree on a minimum standard when sharing tasks. Like does feeding children mean that you cook a fresh nutritionally balanced meal, or just shove a frozen pizza in the oven? What does 'cleanining the kitchen' really mean? WIll help with discussions when one wants everything sterilized and the other thinks just putting the dishwasher on is all it takes.

Stop asking him to 'help you'.

Start asking him to do his share around the house you share.

Ask him how he can hold down an 'important' job but can't figure out what needs to be done in his own home and do it with step by step instructions. In writing. Tell him you'll wait for an answer while you stop doing things for him.