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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask who is in the wrong here?

179 replies

bringincrazyback · 19/05/2023 01:36

Perspectives on a row DH and I just had would be appreciated. I'm beyond frustrated at this point.

Context is housework that needs doing before a few days away. (Further context: DH's mother is a dyed-in-the-wool traditionalist who never taught any of her sons how to do housework, because their wives would do all that kind of thing.)

DH never takes the initiative with anything housework-wise, literally doesn't seem to know how to do certain things, and unless directly asked by me, does none apart from doing the bins, a bit of cooking and washing up. No actual cleaning unless asked a million times. Arguments over housework, and the need to do more of it, are frequent because he doesn't care what state the house is in and thinks I should stop being uptight and do next to no housework. Not happening. (For info, I have ME and various pain issues which mean I have to pace myself carefully where things like housework are concerned.)

Earlier this evening:
Me: Will you have time to give me a hand with the housework over the next couple of evenings?
DH: Yes, of course, just text me a list. (I always get this 'text me a list' business, even when I tell him verbally what needs doing. He seems incapable of seeing for himself what needs doing.)
Me: Well, W, X, Y and Z need doing. I don't like texting a list, it makes me feel like I'm issuing orders.
DH while I've been telling him what needs doing: several repetitions of 'yeah, yeah,' which usually means (and I think this time is no exception) that he isn't listening.

So I get cracking, do as much as I am able, but not the stuff I'd already asked him to do, stupidly thinking he'll come and do it as he appeared to have agrred to do.
DH spends the whole evening in his man cave.

Conversation at bedtime:
Me: You will be able to help with the housework tomorrow, right?
DH: You didn't text me a list.
Me: No, but I told you what needed doing.
DH: That's not my recollection. I said to text me a list.
Me: I didn't need to, I told you what needed doing.

A bit more verbal ping-pong and he's claiming he's 'always' cleaning the kitchen worktop and the area where the cats' bowls are. By 'cleaning' it transpires he means sweeping his hand over the surfaces, catching bits and binning them. Possibly passing a damp cloth over them at most.

Me: You need to use the anti-bacterial spray as well.
DH: (makes a contemptuous noise) No one needs to use anti-bacterial spray unless they're Michael Jackson.
(There's a whole list of things normal sensible people do, which he deems unnecessary and neurotic, apparently this is one of them... a few years back he sneered at me for saying toilets needed cleaning under the rim and said didn't I know how gravity works?)

A bit of further quarrelling and he huffs out of bed and stomps to the spare room with the words, 'I'm an adult, I make my own decisions.'

AIBU for expecting him (as an adult, as he's so at pains to tell me) to use a bit more initiative, to not just weasel out of keeping promises on a technicality, and... to actually listen to me?

OP posts:
HirplesWithHaggis · 19/05/2023 02:21

bringincrazyback · 19/05/2023 02:15

The funny thing is, he'd lived on his own for years, and just hadn't done more than the absolute bare minimum (which pretty much only extends as far as doing the washing up and 'cleaning' the toilet). I had to put off moving in with him initially until he sorted out his house, because it was so dirty and untidy I wasn't prepared to live in it. He just doesn't care about his surroundings. I'm convinced on some level it's a reaction to how his mum does things as she's more or less OCD about cleanliness and housework.

So you knew he was a manky fucker and you still moved in with him? And are now surprised you need to tell him to do household stuff?

Aquamarine1029 · 19/05/2023 02:23

Just get a divorce already. FFS. What a miserable way to live. Your husband is nothing but an anchor around your neck.

SheSaidHummingbird · 19/05/2023 02:23

Text him to let him know that he's a dickhead.

HirplesWithHaggis · 19/05/2023 02:28

If his mum is actually OCD, possibly he was raised to believe that whatever cleaning he did, it was never good enough, hence giving up. So clear instructions, in writing, about which tasks he should do and how might help.

CliantheLang · 19/05/2023 02:33

If his mum is actually OCD, possibly he was raised to believe that whatever cleaning he did, it was never good enough, hence giving up. So clear instructions, in writing, about which tasks he should do and how might help.

No, OP isn't his mother.

Text him to let him know that he's a dickhead.

No, text him to let him know that he's going to be divorced.

SquishyGloopyBum · 19/05/2023 02:37

I agree with you op about the list.

However, I would make one and keep it on my phone in the notes. Really detailed with the stuff thats obvious such as clean surfaces down with spray.

Every time he asks for a list, just copy and paste the same one. Every time.

But I do feel the list thing is him being obtuse. Does his boss have to text him a list at work? I bet not.

Can you afford a cleaner?

HirplesWithHaggis · 19/05/2023 02:40

No, OP isn't his mother

No, she's not. But she is living with him, and she's his wife. She knew what he was like before she moved in with him. She has certain (not unreasonable) requirements re housework. He has certain (not unreasonable) requirements around communication. I'm pretty sure an adult couple can surmount this issue. But it requires compromise, like so many other marital issues.

She wants the work done. He wants a list. Just write the list!

AllotmentTime · 19/05/2023 02:50

Sounds like from his perspective, you clean way more than is necessary and want him to join in with work that doesn’t actually need doing.

Doesn’t sound like he’s right about that, but he clearly thinks you’re being unreasonable about the amount of cleaning that needs doing. So from his side, none of it actually needs doing, therefore if you want him to join in with this busywork, the least you could do is text him a list like he asked.

You’re not going to get him doing housework unless he can agree that it’s actually important and not just your weird obsession. Would he agree to counselling? Because this sounds like a pretty fundamental part of his living habits that you’ve assumed will change but he doesn’t actually have the same outlook on it that you do.

ohnonowwhat · 19/05/2023 03:22

Just text him a list, I don't know why this would be a big deal? I love lists, though I would demand you wait there whilst I grabbed my iPad and pencil so I could create a whole new list with an appropriate title and colour and then check things off when I'm done. You might think that's weird and unnecessary as that's not how you work but people are different and if you want something done for you, you need to ask in language they understand. I'm sure your cleaning requirements are obvious to you but they wouldn't be obvious to everyone; I do cobwebs once a year if that as I don't mind spiders and hate flies, my mother would catch the slightest glimpse of what might be a web and run for her long brush. She would no doubt think it obvious, I'd think it weird and unnecessary and would need to be explicitly told to do that. But at the end of the day, these are things you probably should have figured out before you married him, it's not fair to get him down the aisle then demand he change his personality!

altmember · 19/05/2023 03:24

You picked him. You said it's how his mother raised him, so presumably he was already like this when you decided to marry him?

He asked you to text him a list, so just text him a list. By not doing so you're giving him an excuse.

CurlewKate · 19/05/2023 03:27

And no, it's not his mother's fault. Women are not responsible for men's behaviour.

backinthebox · 19/05/2023 03:32

My husband once said he was happy to help with the housework if I wrote him a list. So I did (because every good little woman should write to do lists for their husband so that he does not have to worry his busy head about mundane stuff like housework!)

Here is what my list had on it.

”To do list for Mr BITB.

  1. think of all the things that need doing.
  2. write them on a list.
  3. do them.”

He got rather cross, and when we had our subsequent debate he admitted he was cross because it is hard trying to think about all the things that need doing in order for the household to run properly. Having got this admission out of him I pointed out that basically he still wanted me to do the hardest task - the Mental Load - before he would even lift a finger, and he realised how unreasonable he was being.

Seriously, men should not need a list written for them by women in order to function on a daily basis. Either there is something wrong with him that means he needs a list like ‘get up, go to toilet, wipe arse, get dressed, etc’ or he can think for himself. Waiting for his wife to tell him how to keep his home clean or just not bothering is fucking lazy and disrespectful.

Isthisexpected · 19/05/2023 03:35

He's a fully grown man. If he can't remember he should say let me make a list as you're talking. The bottom line is he doesn't see this stuff as important enough.

Fraaahnces · 19/05/2023 04:06

Just realised that mine is doing something similar atm. He is trying his very best to get me to take over cooking the beef for his sports club’s nachos. I’m not playing and it’s pissing him off. He’s seen me make this a million times. He’s made it himself. (It’s not fucking rocket science either!) “Honey, what do I do next? This makes me so anxious!” Me:-“Imagine how good it will feel when you tell everyone you made it yourself!” (Like he wouldn’t anyway…) “Can’t you just stand here and tell me what to do?” Me:- “No. I’m doing an assignment, and you’re a grown man. If I ever derail you with questions when you work from home, you get downright aggressive. I really resent that you expect me to stop what I am doing because you believe that this is more important.” Him:- “No I don’t” Me:- “Clearly you do, or you would pay me the same respect you expect from me.” Him:- “No need to be like that.” Me:- “Well, obviously I think there is. Cook it yourself and leave me out of it please.” *Let’s see how long this lasts. He’s muttering under his breath about how this would have been a lovely thing for us to do together. I said if he really thought that, he’d offer to help with the regular family cooking. He’s being a manbaby. 😵‍💫

DreamTheMoors · 19/05/2023 04:11

He wants you to text him so he has proof of what a nag you are to his friends - and his mummy.

Get a blackboard.

BarbaraWoodlouse · 19/05/2023 04:13

JustJoinedRightNow · 19/05/2023 02:00

Sorry but what am I reading? You all know this is an OP speaking about her fully grown husband and not a toddler right??

he lives there, why on earth should she be responsible for texting him a list of housework that needs doing??
oh my god some people have seriously low standards in a partner.
OP, he is being unreasonable, you are correct. If he wants it in list form he can bloody write it down when you’re verbally telling him what needs doing. Or, he could open his eyes and look around. Far out.

Little to add to this and the “mental load” observations above except please, please never again refer to “giving a hand” or “helping” with the housework. It’s not your job that he helps (or doesn’t help) you with. Language matters here, not just in a bloody text.

Glitterandmud · 19/05/2023 04:15

If he needs a written list so badly he can get his phone out (or a paper and pen) and write down what op is saying to him as she says it.

I had this with DH, we would have a conversation and he would want his 'list of jobs' texted to him after. That was a no, I don't provide minutes with agreed actions of conversations! He has a thing on his phone he makes his lists on now, works for us both.

coffy11 · 19/05/2023 04:18

He's not going to change, he doesn't want to do any housework, expects you to do it all, doesn't respect your time or you. I'd leave him, it's not going to get better.

Confusion101 · 19/05/2023 04:30

Honestly at this stage I'd make a list of all the things that need doing and split them between ye and that's what yer jobs are because fuck having that conversation on a regular basis!!!! FWIW even if we are going to the chippy and DP wants one thing I still ask him to text me it because I have poor retention for verbals and am afraid of getting it wrong. So for not texting him the list I think YABU and are making it more difficult for yourself.

MamblingOn · 19/05/2023 04:32

I don’t think anyone would blame you for wanting out of the relationship, but presumably you want to stay together but just for things to change. In the nicest way, he’s not just going to wake up one morning and improve his standards so there’s got to be something different. There are apps you can get with a running chore list/ recurring chores and you can divide between you and tick off when done. Could you use that to sit down and jointly agree what needs doing and how often so you only have to have the conversation once and a compromise on standards can be found?

Ivyiris · 19/05/2023 04:43

My dh likes a written list. I think you are being unreasonable

marcopront · 19/05/2023 04:46

You are happy to tell him what needs doing but not to text him the list.
That is about the means of communication not the work.

If he asked you to text him a list and you didn't say you wouldn't, again it is about communication

If he doesn't think antibacterial spray is needed then it is about a different philosophy to cleaning which maybe you need to discuss. It is his house too.

Valour · 19/05/2023 05:03

The replies to this thread are insane. She should text her husband a list of chores because he doesn't listen to her when she speaks?? Really??

BananaBlue · 19/05/2023 05:14

Why do women get the blame for grown men not being able to do their share?
Are they not able to learn?
His dirty flat would have been a red flag for me anyway.

He can write the list as you read it out, but really he should be using his eyes.

At the moment he knows you won’t send him a list so it’s a stand off.
I’d call his bluff and have one ready in my notes.
Chances are he will move the goal posts anyway

marcopront · 19/05/2023 05:18

Valour · 19/05/2023 05:03

The replies to this thread are insane. She should text her husband a list of chores because he doesn't listen to her when she speaks?? Really??

No but she should tell him I am not going to text you a list, please write it down.

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