to ask who is in the wrong here?

[bringincrazyback]

Perspectives on a row DH and I just had would be appreciated. I'm beyond frustrated at this point.

Context is housework that needs doing before a few days away. (Further context: DH's mother is a dyed-in-the-wool traditionalist who never taught any of her sons how to do housework, because their wives would do all that kind of thing.)

DH never takes the initiative with anything housework-wise, literally doesn't seem to know how to do certain things, and unless directly asked by me, does none apart from doing the bins, a bit of cooking and washing up. No actual cleaning unless asked a million times. Arguments over housework, and the need to do more of it, are frequent because he doesn't care what state the house is in and thinks I should stop being uptight and do next to no housework. Not happening. (For info, I have ME and various pain issues which mean I have to pace myself carefully where things like housework are concerned.)

Earlier this evening:
Me: Will you have time to give me a hand with the housework over the next couple of evenings?
DH: Yes, of course, just text me a list. (I always get this 'text me a list' business, even when I tell him verbally what needs doing. He seems incapable of seeing for himself what needs doing.)
Me: Well, W, X, Y and Z need doing. I don't like texting a list, it makes me feel like I'm issuing orders.
DH while I've been telling him what needs doing: several repetitions of 'yeah, yeah,' which usually means (and I think this time is no exception) that he isn't listening.

So I get cracking, do as much as I am able, but not the stuff I'd already asked him to do, stupidly thinking he'll come and do it as he appeared to have agrred to do.
DH spends the whole evening in his man cave.

Conversation at bedtime:
Me: You will be able to help with the housework tomorrow, right?
DH: You didn't text me a list.
Me: No, but I told you what needed doing.
DH: That's not my recollection. I said to text me a list.
Me: I didn't need to, I told you what needed doing.

A bit more verbal ping-pong and he's claiming he's 'always' cleaning the kitchen worktop and the area where the cats' bowls are. By 'cleaning' it transpires he means sweeping his hand over the surfaces, catching bits and binning them. Possibly passing a damp cloth over them at most.

Me: You need to use the anti-bacterial spray as well.
DH: (makes a contemptuous noise) No one needs to use anti-bacterial spray unless they're Michael Jackson.
(There's a whole list of things normal sensible people do, which he deems unnecessary and neurotic, apparently this is one of them... a few years back he sneered at me for saying toilets needed cleaning under the rim and said didn't I know how gravity works?)

A bit of further quarrelling and he huffs out of bed and stomps to the spare room with the words, 'I'm an adult, I make my own decisions.'

AIBU for expecting him (as an adult, as he's so at pains to tell me) to use a bit more initiative, to not just weasel out of keeping promises on a technicality, and... to actually listen to me?

It’s not ideal that he needs telling at all, and isn’t self motivated to do it.

But the difference between a list and a verbal conversation seems to be splitting hairs. You want it to be done so I’d send him the list. If he still doesn’t do it, then you’ve got a problem DH

Consciously he rejects those views, I couldn't be with him if he was of the same mindset. But at some level I believe he had absorbed them, because his behaviour seems to me like a OTT attempt to reject his mum's values.

So you’ve been with him for 23 years and he is now 57. How do you see the next 23 years going? Do you think that as he’s hardly changed his attitude since you got together he will actually change in the years leading towards his 80th birthday?
Clue: he won’t.
Get out now and enjoy your next three decades.

I also do not understand why you wouldn’t just text him a list.

Print it out. Laminate it. Stick it on the fridge

“dhs chore list”

or leave, hire a cleaner or just put up with it and clean it yourself. They are the options really. Him saying text it and you ignoring that is just making it a bigger issue than it needs to be.

hell right the list on notepad on your phone. Copy and paste it everytime he asks maybe even add one extra thing each time.

Write 🤦🏻‍♀️

I love a list! DP and I make a list each on housework days and have a race some jobs are permanently on his list, and some are permanently on mine (mostly because he’ll take the jobs I hate, like emptying and cleaning the bin 🤮 and hoovering because I hate that too 😁), but he doesn’t do the bathrooms because I am fussy about which products are used and where. We share things like laundry and washing up.

Could you agree between you to each do a couple of quick chores every night before you go to bed? E.g. wash up and wipe down, sweep the kitchen floor, take the recycling out, tidy the sofa cushions, put away anything that shouldn’t be out? 20 mins max. Takes the ‘big’ housework day down to a couple of hours! We also have a little ‘stuff to go upstairs’ box on the landing, which we take up once a week.

He's done nothing around the house for 23 years. Why will a text get him to pull his weight? Is it a special magic text which erases lazy men who think housework isn't for them and replaces them with men who care for their wives and think it's unacceptable to live in a shit pit?

OP you're obviously deep in this and far down the line of frustration.

I can see why people are hitting on the just text him then! I'm interested as to if he would have done anything then? Would it at least have helped?

If it's a simple of case of him needing the instruction and the jobs will get done then I think you may need to rethink a bit. He's clearly not going to get to a place where he just does it. So save yourself the frustration.

But if he won't do it even with the list, then you have a much bigger issue.

I get that you are frustrated that he can't just see it/do it/needs a written list. But does he actually get things done when asked?

I think by not texting the list you are arguing about the wrong thing. You've already gone to all the effort of thinking of what he needs to do and telling him, so a text is not a big deal. If he then doesn't do what needs doing, then it s worth having the argument.

I do agree with him to some extent though. No cleaning is clearly not acceptable but equally wiping a side with a clean cloth and no spray is not the end of the world, so to a degree I think you'd need to accept you have different standards and that is ok.

But that's the thing with cleaning you can just leave it (beyond washing up and then adding dirty clothes) until YOU PERSONALLY think something is dirty enough to clean.

If the op thinks kitchen and bathroom should be fully cleaned every day and he thinks once a month is fine, he'd only do once a month in his house. Or change bedding much less often than op does.

Hence send him a list of what you want doing. As he doesn't see any immediate need to do any of it (and he may be right)

We just got a cleaner and have to have a mad tidy up before they come. Much less hassle

If the op thinks kitchen and bathroom should be fully cleaned every day and he thinks once a month is fine, he'd only do once a month in his house. Or change bedding much less often than op does.

Due to having pain and ME issues, I clean a lot less than most people. Partly why it's riling me - the bar is already low.

OP I could have written your post. My husband turns into a teenager when expected to do any cleaning, despite being hard working in other areas.

I’ve been told my standards are too high etc etc. I once responded by quietly stopping doing laundry and shopping. Quickly he came to go to work and realised he didn’t have any clean uniform.

I politely pointed out that I had spent my limited (also have CSF/ME) energy doing the cleaning jobs he didn’t think were his responsibility- like cleaning the toilets and floors.

It didn’t make much difference, so we got a cleaner!

Ouch, OP. But I wouldn’t know how to handle separate finances within marriage, which your comment about paying for the cleaner implies. To me this only makes sense when someone needs to protect assets for children brought into the marriage.

And given he’s 57 he’s clearly not improving with age so I’m sorry for raising that possibility.

OP the factvyour husband won't contribute to a cleaner when you have health conditions speaks volumes about who he is as a person.

Because he clearly does. He has clearly told you what he needs. My DH simply wouldn't remember a list like that, and he's very helpful around the house.

Taking the time to compile a text would annoy me if I've just told him what needs to be on the list. Surely its his role to write down the instruction at the time, like you dictate it and he notes it on his phone or whatever. I am a list person, if i'm on the phone and DH says what we need in the shop etc I need to write it down and keep a notebook in my handbag, but I wouldn't expect him to write it for me.

If all else fails do the text and send it to him daily. If something isn't done resend the same text. It might annoy him into action!!

Because he clearly does. He has clearly told you what he needs. My DH simply wouldn't remember a list like that, and he's very helpful around the house.

I think you must not have seen my post earlier about him having an excellent memory for lists most of the time.

Thing is op do you want to be right or do you want him to do the jobs.

He would like a text list. You want to just tell him. Either way though for you, you are telling him.

Thing is op do you want to be right or do you want him to do the jobs.

Both 😂

I’ll do it for you if you want!

I’m so surprised by the responses here. The expectation that you send him a list puts all the responsibility on you. It’s just not okay.

Wtf 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

If he's 57 and you've been with him nearly 25 years, he was already in his 30's when you met - so, fully grown.

How much more "growing up" did you really expect him to do at that point?

Let's face it, you picked a dud.

The thing is, he doesn't care about housework and you do so why does your standards trumph his? (even though it seems he's a dirty midden). Just tell text him the list.

The organised mum method app would be great for him. You can share it and tick off what’s done. If he can be bothered to use it

I’m with you though. You are not his mother and you are not the boss of him. He is an adult who needs to sort himself out.