Ignore and block childminder?

[Avatari]

Several months ago we started looking for childcare and nursery options were not looking great. We managed to find a woman who would come to the house and babysit from 9-5. 2 months before starting she said she would agree to £11.50 an hour to baby sit 1 yr old. The week before she was due she told us her husband said she couldn't work for less than £13 so we agreed. As we were pretty stuck at that point, I was back at work in 5 days with no alternative.

She hasn't been great. At one point she told us on the Sunday she wouldn't be available that week. Then would get annoyed when we told her there were school holidays so we wouldn't need her. We have been looking for alternative care and managed to get a nursery place starting next week. We told her as soon as we knew, end of April that wed only need her 3 more weeks. So this week should have been her last week. Except we have covid. So told her we wouldn't need her.
We were intending to send her a gift to thank her for her help and send her this week's money.

EXCEPT she has just sent a message to DH saying that we need to pay for June and July as we had a contract. There was no contract. We never specified when we would need her until. She also said she was a single mother and has three children. She has repeatedly told us about her husband.

We are now inclined to not offer to pay this week just ignore and block now. But just wanted thoughts that this is reasonable and reassurance that she hasn't got a leg to stand on.

I think the baby sitter’s husband sounds like a bully. Clearly he’s pulling her strings and telling her what to say in an attempt to rinse as much money from you as possible.

Is he local? Do you know of him?

Pay her final week and let that be that. I doesn’t sound like the agreement between you was well enough defined - not paying when you don’t use pre-booked childcare isn’t the norm for example.

Nannies can share and have multiple families they look after children for.

You are using terminology which is used in the concept of employee/employer relationships.

I mean, you can’t easily “block” and ignore her husband if he comes knocking at your door asking for money.

Id advise compensating her for her time off when you were ill, thanking her with a small gift and keeping things civil rather than blocking her or making veiled threats about reporting her to HMRC.

Presumably your child was quite fond of her and she performed the role of baby sitter for you.

Defuse the situation as much as possible.

She sounds like a chancer, tell her to fuck off before you report her to the DWP and HMRC.

If she could not come for two weeks and only told you 2 days before, she didn't really have regular hours. Pay her only for the week.

Thanks to everyone who give advice in kind. It was much appreciated.

Heard back from her and she is happy to accept the week's pay to end notice period. Also decided to text doctor about how they did NI/Tax that we'd fucked up. Turns out they understood her to have set herself up as a limited company so she should be self employed and providing a service and have it in writing. She has provided temporary childcare/help/babysitting/nannying for other families in same way.

Whether she has been declaring or not, I don't care. That's the end of our dealings with her. We won't be recommending her to others and have now got a much better understanding of how to employ people and are very much looking forward to starting nursery.

Employment stuff aside, I can't believe you would put your baby in the care of a complete random with no proof of DBs, first aid training, insurance, anything! That is complete insanity.

This! It sounds as though you've all had a lucky escape.

Dodgy AF and you’re lucky this didn’t end even more badly

I think your attitude and your actions were exploitative. I don't think it follows that a request to be paid for the notice period is a 'threatening text'. You are giving notice to someone you had trusted to look after your baby. Do you really value her so little that you think one week's notice would be reasonable? Are you being paid sick leave? Is this what you expect from your employer? This is the only reason I can see for the lack of kindness in your posts and the way you have treated this poor woman. In which case you have my sympathy.

It was an expensive option

It was cheap. Baby sitters start from £15 per hour in my area (more in London ) Nannies charge from £15-35 per hour.

It can’t be compared to a group setting - nursery

You weren’t being “had over” if that’s what you’re implying?

Sounds like you have learnt your lesson Op.

Pay her the week and block.

If you are going to make comments like this you should at the very least to have the decency to read all my posts.

We didn't give her one weeks notice, we give her three weeks notice. Which is three times the length of any legally required notice for and employee of 2 and 1/2 months. It worked out as 15 days in total due to days we didn't need her and days she couldn't come. The last week of notice she didn't need to come as we were sick and we offered to pay this paying her the entire period.

Her request was not that we pay for notice period but that we pay 2 months beyond the notice period as per 'her contract.' There was no contract and she also seems to have forgotten she told us she was off to Florida for 3 weeks in June. She also lied about her marital status to make us feel bad and manipulate us. Her husband absolutely lives with her. This is why the text sat badly with us.

The casual terms of our agreement were entirely accepted and even determined by her. She understood we only needed her on certain days and it wouldn't be every week from the very first day I spoke to her and always told her two weeks in advance if we didn't. This suited her as she wanted to be able to do the same to take advantage of cheap holidays last minute without any employment obligations and was able to give us 2 days notice. She has/had the exact same arrangement with other families as per her terms.

If any aspect of the job didn't suit her she had two months to tell us before she starting. She raised no issues until the week before when our options to find childcare were practically zero. So yeah we messed up, I admit it but I will not accept that we exploited her.

This person isn't a childminder childminders have to be registered with Ofsted and look after a child in their own home.
She sounds like a self employed nanny. Did you make sure she had DBS checks and necessary experience/qualifications to look after your children?
It's sound a very ad hoc arrangement. A registered childminder, nursery or professional nanny would insist on a contract which set out noyice period, payments during holiday, illness etc. If you didn't have one I don't expect you are liable to pay her.
That being said if you did use a nursery, childminder you would still be expected to pay them when you are in holiday or if you are ill to keep the place.

I don't need to read all your posts and it's interesting that you feel you are entitled to expect this. It seems to me that the interactions you describe with your 'babysitter' were exploitative. I think it's fair enough for her to expect that you honour the terms of what could be seen to be a verbal contract. But I guess I don't really know the context and I appreciate that it is difficult trying to find good childcare that is affordable. Maybe I shouldn't be criticising you for what were probably difficult decisions. There was just something about the way you described the person you had employed that troubled me enough to post about it. I hope you find a resolution to the problem and I wish there were better childcare options available for everyone.

TBF OP, it was your first post that gave me 'exploitative' vibes.

That she'd served her purpose and when you had no further need for her and she sent a cheeky text your first instinct was to block her and not pay her what she was undoubtedly owed.

As the thread developed, it's clear that you've been naive and on reflection have reconsidered the situation.

It seems as though things are settled cordially.

Having said that, I'm still incredulous you'd arrange your baby's care in such a haphazard and unregulated fashion.

Also decided to text doctor about how they did NI/Tax that we'd fucked up. Turns out they understood her to have set herself up as a limited company so she should be self employed and providing a service and have it in writing. She has provided temporary childcare/help/babysitting/nannying for other families in same way.

If that was the basis on which you assumed she was working, based on the doctor's information, then you'd have expected invoices, paperwork & a contract to issue. Of course you would.

It's clear you employed her casually without thinking what that meant. You were unhappy & dismissive of the way she performed, without recognising that you didn't treat her well, either. Not paying her when you didn't need her, when you were sick.

I don't mean even regarding employment law, or HMRC. Just morally or ethically I can't imagine that you thought any of this was ok, either from your side or hers.

At least you've a new arrangement in place now & matters are concluded with the minder.

Hmm sorry op but I’m definitely detecting a whiff of faux naivety over the tax/NI contributions.

People are quite happy to pay cash in hand for a cheaper job done casually with no paperwork or written agreement.. until there’s an issue and suddenly they claim they were unaware, didn’t realise etc.

I don’t think it’s that much of an issue to pay a casual ad hoc baby sitter cash.

It’s commonplace but obviously there’s no written contract to protect you should disputes over pay occur.

“The doctor” isn’t going to openly admit that he’s evading employing her properly, of course he’s going to be saying he thought she was self employed, just like OP.

The nanny most likely isn’t even doing any benefit fraud etc, she just knows she would have a lot smaller pool of jobs to choose from if she insisted on proper contracts, NI/tax etc.

That's true @evuscha

Just don't know why OP hides
still behind the fiction that she didn't know the employment situation. She knew well.

If its cash in hand ,you really have no obligation to pay her any notice really unless this was berbally agreed at the start .She can't legally do anything if she possibly hasn't been declaring the income either . I'd probably pay for the week you had covid as that isn't her fault then tell her she's not getting anymore as she isn't needed

Why the heck would you leave your baby with someone you don't know have no formal contract with, who has no db's or safeguarding proof and no references

A few people have made comments like this. She does have a DBS and I got two references, including one from an education setting, and she was never left alone with baby. DH works from home and the baby and childminder were in full view and earshot of him the entire time.

It sounds like this woman worked for a while in a school, hence the DBS check and reference from an education setting,
and is now doing a bit of casual baby sitting in the local area off the back of that?

It sounds like she was capable and provided the ad hoc baby sitting you required and others vouched for her, but she’s shockingly unprofessional in any sort of business sense.

I don’t think you’ve made any huge error of judgment. Presumably you knew she was a cash in hand baby sitter and resorted to using her fully aware that she was cheap casual labour?
It was a case of needs must in a difficult situation.