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AIBU?

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Original poster

Ignore and block childminder?

269 replies

Avatari · 16/05/2023 22:18

Several months ago we started looking for childcare and nursery options were not looking great. We managed to find a woman who would come to the house and babysit from 9-5. 2 months before starting she said she would agree to £11.50 an hour to baby sit 1 yr old. The week before she was due she told us her husband said she couldn't work for less than £13 so we agreed. As we were pretty stuck at that point, I was back at work in 5 days with no alternative.

She hasn't been great. At one point she told us on the Sunday she wouldn't be available that week. Then would get annoyed when we told her there were school holidays so we wouldn't need her. We have been looking for alternative care and managed to get a nursery place starting next week. We told her as soon as we knew, end of April that wed only need her 3 more weeks. So this week should have been her last week. Except we have covid. So told her we wouldn't need her.
We were intending to send her a gift to thank her for her help and send her this week's money.

EXCEPT she has just sent a message to DH saying that we need to pay for June and July as we had a contract. There was no contract. We never specified when we would need her until. She also said she was a single mother and has three children. She has repeatedly told us about her husband.

We are now inclined to not offer to pay this week just ignore and block now. But just wanted thoughts that this is reasonable and reassurance that she hasn't got a leg to stand on.

OP posts:
MintJulia · 16/05/2023 22:45

SnackSizeRaisin · 16/05/2023 22:34

Also what difference does covid make? Are people really still using that as an excuse? Surely most employers would just tell you to go to work regardless

Err, no definitely not! Just as you wouldn't go to work with flu and cross-infect people, you don't go with Covid either.

Saucemonkey · 16/05/2023 22:46

Tinkerbyebye · 16/05/2023 22:23

I would pay the final week and that’s it

This.
one week pay, block and move on.

cyncope · 16/05/2023 22:48

backawayfatty1 · 16/05/2023 22:45

Childminder here - she's not a childminder. Strict requirements (assuming UK) which include watching children at my home unless it's less than 2 hours. If she was watching your child at your home then nanny/babysitter/home help. In terms of employee/self-employed, that's an agreement between the two of you. Childcare providers are not required to be employed. Sounds like no clear contract so officially no notice required. I'd personally pay the week of sickness and block

Being self-employed or employed isn't something you agree between you, it depends on the job. Tesco couldn't just decide all their employees are self-employed.

Original poster
Avatari · 16/05/2023 22:48

IamAlso4eels · 16/05/2023 22:42

Cash in hand isn't illegal, lots of people are still paid in cash, however .even if paying cash the employer should be deducting NI and tax first.

OP, it sounds like she fits the definition of an employee, specifically a nanny rather than a babysitter - providing care in your home over full days on a regular basis for an agreed hourly rate whereas babysitters tend to be for shorter time periods and less regular.

Agree that it all sounds like a mess and you haven't been thorough with checking what your obligations are. A written contract protects both sides however she could argue that she has an implied contract, particularly if she has messages or emails from you confirming the details of her employment including dates and expected start/end date.

You are potentially on shaky legal ground here and she might well have a case if you'd previously agreed she would be employed until July and have now gotten rid of her without prior warning or notice.

Trust me I have definitely learnt my lesson regarding employing people. But there is definitely no proof of a contract stating 'until July' and even if there was we give her over 3 weeks notice when the minimum for someone in a contract for 2 months is one week.

We understand it's shit for her to lose on pay this week as we are sick and were willing to pay. But her text this evening has really bothered us. I don't think she will pursue legal action. I know she looks after another family for the other 3 days also cash in hand. It was more about the moral thing of not paying her this week. Which I agree with people here we should take the high road.

OP posts:
Orangeanlemons551 · 16/05/2023 22:49

correct information:
@Daffodil92 employers not employees are responsible for paying tax and NI so OP could be liable for this with HMRC.

@SnackSizeRaisin nannies do not have to be Ofsted registered - you are legally allowed to pay anyone to look after your children in your own home.

looking after a one year old in the day is not babysitting even if dad is home . If parents are not working but home would be called a mothers/fathers help/junior nanny role. But dad was working from home so yes a nanny role. The number or days per week is not relevant.

HMRC don’t generally allow nannies to be self employed unless an ad hoc arrangement where nanny dictates when she/he is available rather than you dictating what the hours or days.

i agree a shambles on both sides. Professional nannies have childcare qualifications, DBS , First aid and insurance. To employ anyone without is a mistake . As an employer I hope you also had home insurance to cover you for having an employee in your home.
£13 is a low rate depending on where you are in the UK.

In use a nanny agency to find a nanny or a registered childminder.

Teamofsix · 16/05/2023 22:54

To me it seems like your saying the word baby sitter a lot to try and down play the fact you didn’t employ someone through the correct channels and thought the cash in hand route would benefit you both! It definitely seems like you where both really unprofessional, and I would probably still pay the month and a parting gift to stay cordial as it seems your children are enjoyed her as all your complaints are related to the logistics of the job not the care

Orders76 · 16/05/2023 22:55

Also 9-5 is not a babysitter

BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 16/05/2023 22:56

Did you even do a DBS check on her? Is she ifsted registered? Does she have insurances?

Iceicebabytoocold · 16/05/2023 23:02

Sounds like you should have employed her but selectively chose to pay her cash in hand. Both parties sound dodgy as hell to be honest.

HaveSomeIntrospect · 16/05/2023 23:07

using Your description, she meets the legal definition of a nanny.
You were employing her illegally by not paying her minimum wage plus tax and ni.
She was not a childminder

Orangeanlemons551 · 16/05/2023 23:12

£13 per hour is above minimum wage

Sleepwhatsthazzz · 16/05/2023 23:14

I can't believe people are suggesting you pay her a month! If someone is getting paid weekly, typically that is all the notice they are required. You gave 3 weeks notice. If you really had to give 4 weeks notice that would only be one more week pay.

I would probably just pay this week, so you can know you have done right and not been underhanded. But at the same time sounds like she is a cheeky sod and I would (as you currently sound) be really regretting having gotten involved. Plus she sounds blooming expensive compared to a registered childminder!

MN does tend to get really focused on cash in hand, illegal (which they are most likely right about, I don't know enough about it or cared enough/been in the situation to need to look it up) hiring so I knew you would get a roasting for that.

Onwards to new childcare and you can write it up to experience.

ThereIbledit · 16/05/2023 23:15

Tread carefully. She could put you in the shit for not employing her properly.

Throughalookingglass · 16/05/2023 23:16

Avatari · 16/05/2023 22:34

Just to expand. She is not a nanny. She only came two days a week and DH was working from home so actually did most of the lunch prep, putting down for nap etc. She basically kept baby busy so he could focus on work.

She is definitely more a babysitter than a nanny.

Don't be silly.
You tried to employ someone to mind your child whilst avoiding paying tax for her. She is a part-time nanny, not a babysitter.
If she decided to declare tax, you will be faced with a large fine.
I would pay her the month in lieu and hope she won't go down the route of reporting you. Of course she would have to declare her own tax circumstances if she did report you, but people do strange and irrational things out of spite.
Your claim that she was a 'babysitter' will not wash with anyone here and absolutely will not wash with revenue.

Itsjeremycorbynsfault · 16/05/2023 23:20

If she was paid weekly on a casual basis then one week's pay in lieu of notice is fine.

Don't forget employees have next to no rights if employed for less than two years anyway so you could get rid of her anyway. Apologies to sound brutal, but true.

I'd put money on her income not being declared either.

PrincessScarlett · 16/05/2023 23:21

Was she even DBS checked, insured or first aid trained? It's very worrying you'd trust your baby with an unregistered unregulated person. I think you both behaved badly; her cancelling last minute on a Sunday, you cancelling her because of sickness and holiday. You do realise that with a professional childcare provider you will have to pay regardless of sickness and holiday?

Glad you have learned your lesson OP but I fear there will be many more tales like this with the huge shortage of professional childcare places.

Original poster
Avatari · 16/05/2023 23:46

PrincessScarlett · 16/05/2023 23:21

Was she even DBS checked, insured or first aid trained? It's very worrying you'd trust your baby with an unregistered unregulated person. I think you both behaved badly; her cancelling last minute on a Sunday, you cancelling her because of sickness and holiday. You do realise that with a professional childcare provider you will have to pay regardless of sickness and holiday?

Glad you have learned your lesson OP but I fear there will be many more tales like this with the huge shortage of professional childcare places.

Trust me, lesson learnt. She came recommended by a doctor from playgroup has a DBS check, didn't ask if she was first aid trained but DH was in the house, which is why we felt ok. Though, he's not first trained either.

3 days a week in nursery will still considerably cheaper AND they definitely are DBS checked, first aid trained and insured so we are very happy with our choice.

Anyway DH has taken the stance that she was self employed as she had other families on her book and that she was able to rescind her service without any notice. Which is true she was away for two weeks and told us 2 days before. And that she should have been declaring her income from all families together. He also originally offered to pay via bank transfer but she declined and asked for cash.

OP posts:
MostUnreasonable · 16/05/2023 23:51

Your husband is wrong. She should have been employed by you. Ask HMRC.

ClairDeLaLune · 17/05/2023 00:23

You should pay her for the covid week.

Allbymyself44 · 17/05/2023 05:24

You only gave her 3 weeks notice? That's appalling. It's someone's livelihood and life regardless of how flaky someone is. Bills still have to be paid and food needs to be put on the table.

Ladybug14 · 17/05/2023 05:33

You can say what you like, OP, but if she reports you to HMRC, then you will be fined.

I'd pay her for her final month and learn from this.

MaverickSnoopy · 17/05/2023 05:41

It does sound like she should have been employed, however she cancelled on the Sunday for the following week, so did dictate her own hours. Did she do that more than once?

GreenWheat · 17/05/2023 06:00

You have been staggeringly slapdash and unprofessional in employing a nanny, and unsurprisingly you have attracted an equally unprofessional nanny. What on earth were you thinking?

babyproblems · 17/05/2023 06:05

Agree with pp that this is dodgy on both sides!!! I’m a bit shocked tbh.. you placed an awful lot of trust in her. I think you should pay her the final week and move on. It’s not her fault you have covid - if my son was ill I’d still have to pay childcare even if he didn’t attend. She’s been unreliable but you’ve also taken advantage by not having any paperwork in place or any of the legal obligations of employing a nanny… which is technically what she has been for you! And cash in hand is also dodgy for obvious reasons… I would try and keep her sweet as I think legally you are also quite in the wrong here and If I was in your position I wouldn’t want this to escalate…

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