Ignore and block childminder?

[Avatari]

Several months ago we started looking for childcare and nursery options were not looking great. We managed to find a woman who would come to the house and babysit from 9-5. 2 months before starting she said she would agree to £11.50 an hour to baby sit 1 yr old. The week before she was due she told us her husband said she couldn't work for less than £13 so we agreed. As we were pretty stuck at that point, I was back at work in 5 days with no alternative.

She hasn't been great. At one point she told us on the Sunday she wouldn't be available that week. Then would get annoyed when we told her there were school holidays so we wouldn't need her. We have been looking for alternative care and managed to get a nursery place starting next week. We told her as soon as we knew, end of April that wed only need her 3 more weeks. So this week should have been her last week. Except we have covid. So told her we wouldn't need her.
We were intending to send her a gift to thank her for her help and send her this week's money.

EXCEPT she has just sent a message to DH saying that we need to pay for June and July as we had a contract. There was no contract. We never specified when we would need her until. She also said she was a single mother and has three children. She has repeatedly told us about her husband.

We are now inclined to not offer to pay this week just ignore and block now. But just wanted thoughts that this is reasonable and reassurance that she hasn't got a leg to stand on.

She's wasn't employed though? Seems like this was a casual verbal agreement/arrangement without a contract. The minder/nanny sounds like she couldn't be arsed minding OPs child and OP sounds like she was just using her until something better came along. They shouldn't pay her anything more than they already have and tell her to stop harassing them or they'd report her. I'd also be prepared to be ostracised by the other parents she minds for as she'll go in all guns blazing and speak really badly of the OP and they'll side with her because they rely on her for childcare!

What happened with the families in this situation?

You’ve all behave appallingly. She was unprofessional but so were you. She was not a babysitter or a childminder. She was a nanny. Just because your dh was at home, that doesn’t matter.

If you need childcare in the home setting again, look into what you actually need to do and pay properly for it.

I'm staggered that you'd leave your baby in the care of someone you know so little of, with no attempt at a contract and agreed terms. With no clarification of responsibilities on either side. With no thought to insurance.

Did she ever take baby outside of the house? Did she take her to playgroups, shops, park etc.

You've been happy to use her while it suited you. But based on one text from her are seriously considering not paying money you morally owe her.

Didn't you discuss what would happen in the school holidays - ie that you wouldn't need her - prior to her starting? And I assume she didn't get paid for those weeks?
I'd be a bit pissed off if that particular bombshell was dropped on me ...

@Avatari She’s not English, is she?

You didn't give her holiday pay? 😮

Nanny’s and au pairs do not have to be foster registered. When I was first widowed there was zero available childminders and zero nurseries that could offer care at the times I worked (over night). I had a friend collect my little one from school one time and I was reported to social work. I was told my options were either nanny or au pair, despite these both being unqualified and the lady collecting my child was a teaching assistant.

in the end I had au pairs for years, much cheaper than a nanny and no issues with tax and NI and being an employer.

but agreed this is a totally illegal arrangement both from an employment perspective and from a childcare perspective and they are all bloody lucky to not be caught.

That’s not true. It’s entirely optional to be ofsted registered if you are a nanny (caring for a child in their own home) as opposed to a childminder (caring for children in the childminders’ home).

However I agree it is a shambles and she is clearly employed not self employed than therefore you are legally required to pay NI.

The least risky thing is to pay her at this point for a month and chalk it up to experience.

She wasn't in sole charge though, she was more of a help to parent who was present.

Baby sitters don'tjust work in the evenings, have a look at threads about childfree weddings, people are always advised to get a babysitter for the day. You hire a babysitter for the hours you need them.

I don’t think you’ve treated this woman very well at all!

She's not a professional and registered childcare provider. It's basically cash in hand for baby sitting jobs. There is no contract, so you're not obligated to pay her for next week. I'd just ignore her. It sounds like she's been difficult anyhow, you're best using a nursery.

No contract? Massive mistake. There are templates easily available online. It should have been crystal clear about the fact she you didn't need her in school holidays. Surely she would need to find another source of income for that period? Likewise notice periods should have been agreed up front.

Very reasonable approach.

I wouldn't pay the next 2 months. Perhaps this will be a lesson to her to conduct her business legally.

if she couldn't come, she just told us as well.

In your OP you weren't happy when she did this:

She hasn't been great. At one point she told us on the Sunday she wouldn't be available that week.

It wasn't a casual arrangement. You needed her on specific days on an ongoing basis. Not just the odd evening where if she couldn't make it you'd just cancel your plans.

S DH has just gone through previous messages and at the very start he asked her about a payslip and registering and she said no need it's only a temporary favour that she would record and submit.

He has sent her text stating the notice period would be one week and we give her three but this week is obviously included and to send her bank details. If she threatens to escalate, we will report it to HMRC ourselves and just be honest that and pay any backdated NI, it'll be less than £200.

Very big lesson learnt.

Seems like this was a casual verbal agreement/arrangement without a contract
No such thing. A verbal agreement can still be a contract - just ill-advised.

OP sounds like she was just using her until something better came along

Well, it doesn't work like that. There are employment rules for a reason

So basically HMRC investigated their tax records going back 7 years. one was SE so that was a complete pain, significantly more than than any outstanding NI etc.

I actually can’t remember what happened to the other family. Sorry!

Legally, you're incorrect. Verbal or written, you can't opt out of your responsibilities as an employer - and in this case, with regular employment at the OP's choice of time and at her house, this is employment.

The nanny (because she is a nanny) sounds like a difficult employee and with a written contract could have been in breach anyway with no notice for leave etc. But the OP has more responsibility - she's meant to have paid NI, organised insurance and given paid leave, and paid all year unless agreed. That's why there are written contracts.

This. I can’t believe you would leave your baby with someone who isn’t a registered professional. You were the employer as she was working in your home. You should have had a contract, paid NI contributions, holiday and sick pay. She’s dodging tax/claiming benefits she’s not entitled to by working cash in hand. You are both BU.

DH has just gone through previous messages and at the very start he asked her about a payslip and registering and she said no need it's only a temporary favour that she would record and submit.

Massive drip feed - conveniently after you've had your arse handed to you.

Regardless, it is your responsibility to observe employment and tax legislation

What does 'record & submit' mean? Of course she didn't say this!

I don't think you need to worry about HMRC. But you do need to be more concerned about who you have looking after your DC & the way you treat them.

Yeah she isn’t a childminder at all, she is a babysitter with no contract.
Hopefully both of you learnt from this shambolic arrangement.
You should pay what you originally agreed. There is no legal ramifications if you don’t, it would just be really shitty of you.

I'd just pay her final week then block.

Are you paying her in cash? She's probably claiming all sorts of benefits as a single mother, plus the money from you (does she pay tax/ni)?, plus her husband living with her without declaring. I'd pay for the covid week and then block.