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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Ignore and block childminder?

269 replies

Avatari · 16/05/2023 22:18

Several months ago we started looking for childcare and nursery options were not looking great. We managed to find a woman who would come to the house and babysit from 9-5. 2 months before starting she said she would agree to £11.50 an hour to baby sit 1 yr old. The week before she was due she told us her husband said she couldn't work for less than £13 so we agreed. As we were pretty stuck at that point, I was back at work in 5 days with no alternative.

She hasn't been great. At one point she told us on the Sunday she wouldn't be available that week. Then would get annoyed when we told her there were school holidays so we wouldn't need her. We have been looking for alternative care and managed to get a nursery place starting next week. We told her as soon as we knew, end of April that wed only need her 3 more weeks. So this week should have been her last week. Except we have covid. So told her we wouldn't need her.
We were intending to send her a gift to thank her for her help and send her this week's money.

EXCEPT she has just sent a message to DH saying that we need to pay for June and July as we had a contract. There was no contract. We never specified when we would need her until. She also said she was a single mother and has three children. She has repeatedly told us about her husband.

We are now inclined to not offer to pay this week just ignore and block now. But just wanted thoughts that this is reasonable and reassurance that she hasn't got a leg to stand on.

OP posts:
nannynick · 17/05/2023 06:09

i nanny 2 days per week, term time only, which sounds a similar length of time that you were needing childcare. It is an employed role. I could not contact my employer and say "sorry, I cannot come next week" but I could call in sick if I was unable to come due to illness. I am obligated to do the work and my employer is obligated to provide the work - we have a written contract of employment.
The mutuality of obligation in your case is unclear and there may be text messages, emails, which may clarify it or may not.

If they are an employee, then without a "written statement" they are entitled to one week notice. See guidance from ACAS.
You are providing 3 weeks notice.

If they are self employed, they should have given you terms of business. Something that confirms the arrangement and sets out terms such as payment, notice to end. Them wanting 3 months notice is unreasonable in my view. Can they prove you agreed to a 3 months notice period?

Decide what you will pay and stick to it. Be prepared to defend the position in small claims court if they make a claim for an unpaid invoice.

With regard to nursery, read the contract very carefully, so you know what you are agreeing to.

Please don't let this one time you have used a nanny tarnish your view of nannies.

Kamia · 17/05/2023 06:18

I pay my childminder even on holidays and when she is off for any reason.

mycoffeecup · 17/05/2023 06:24

If she has worked the same hours for you every week over a period of time, you'd be in the shit if she reported you to HMRC for not making her formally employed.

Littledogball · 17/05/2023 06:24

Sprinkles211 · 16/05/2023 22:30

If she's not registered anywhere she can't give you a contract. She's essentially a baby sitter and they are as and when needed only.

The op should have given her a contract not the other way round! You wanted a cheap off the books solution and you are lucky a tragedy didn't occur. She's not trained, registered ... did she even have a dbs or first aid cert?
Pay her a month and don't be leaving your precious child with any old person again!

Original poster
Avatari · 17/05/2023 06:27

ThereIsAnEchoInHere · 17/05/2023 00:00

This was really helpful.

Based on the specifics for a nanny to be self employed she does fall under that category. Did the HMRC employment checker and they said it could not be determined. So it's a grey area even for them.

Going to offer her this week's pay. Then she can jog on.

OP posts:
SchoolQuestionnaire · 17/05/2023 06:28

Ladybug14 · 17/05/2023 05:33

You can say what you like, OP, but if she reports you to HMRC, then you will be fined.

I'd pay her for her final month and learn from this.

She refuses to take a bank transfer, only cash. There isn’t a cat in hells chance of her involving HMRC.

Dedodee · 17/05/2023 07:01

SchoolQuestionnaire · 17/05/2023 06:28

She refuses to take a bank transfer, only cash. There isn’t a cat in hells chance of her involving HMRC.

Show quote history

Agree.
Pp’s on here being all tut tut.
I asked a solicitor to witness a signature. Proper appointment and everything. Job done I asked how much and should I pay at reception. No says he, give me £20 I’m taking it to the pub tonight. Hilarious.

Sugargliderwombat · 17/05/2023 07:05

This is just so so dodgy. No wonder you've ended up with a bit of a dud. I dont believe neither of mentioned notice periods so just stick to whatever was said.

AIbaa · 17/05/2023 07:07

You're on very dodgy ground you've been paying her cash in hand for a regular agreement. I would have paid her 4 weeks notice from when you gave the notice.

Sissynova · 17/05/2023 07:09

You can’t use being annoyed at a text as an excuse to not pay her. You cancelled on her at the last minute, you still need to pay her for that week.

SchoolShenanigans · 17/05/2023 07:10

What an awful arrangement you had in place. It sounds like you've used her tbh. Did you not tell her that you want term time only?

You don't just spring it on someone that you won't pay them for a whole week.

And yes, it's totally irresponsible to block her, don't treat people like shit, it's not nice.

Cherryblossoms85 · 17/05/2023 07:11

I wish people wouldn't do this. You are her employer and should have been paying national insurance. Not stating the holiday arrangements up front and when she is or isn't needed is pretty shoddy. So is her behaviour, but you should have drawn up a contract and followed a proper process to protect both you and her from misunderstandings.

Conkersinautumn · 17/05/2023 07:11

You didn't actually do any checks, employed her totally without any insurance or checks and you don't bother paying her when she's already committed her availability so can't work elsewhere.

Please try a bit harder for appropriate adults watching your kids in future as you've got no clue what to do to employ someone or find childcare.

KateyCuckoo · 17/05/2023 07:13

It's so frustrating when people incorrectly use the term childminder. People will read the headline and judge quickly.

I'm not surprised you ended up with her, you sound very suited to one another!

mightymam · 17/05/2023 07:15

She's a cheeky fucker who's probably claiming benefits on the side. Tell her to piss off or you'll report her for harassment. I'm in shock you put up with her in professionalism for so long.

Catspyjamas17 · 17/05/2023 07:16

Give her a week's money, even if she was properly employed and turned out to be shit there would usually be a probation period with a week's notice on either side - sometimes longer, but a week seems appropriate for a nanny given they work in your home.

EarringsandLipstick · 17/05/2023 07:17

Sounds like you've been illegally employing her

There's no doubt at all that OP has been doing this.

I've had many 'childminders' over the years - I'm using quotes as I'm in Ireland and that's the term used to refer to people who mind children in their own home or yours (no-one really says 'nanny') but the rules are the same.

The idea that she was a babysitter is nonsensical - you needed her on regular set days. The idea that she is not an employee because she had other jobs us also incorrect.

Of course many people do do what you did - pay cash in hand, have no written contract, and many minders want this too, as yours did.

It doesn't make it right.

What I can't get over is that when you didn't need her eg when you'd Covid or other times you just cancelled without paying her. That's appalling. And then you're annoyed she's making demands & hasn't been reliable? 🤦🏻‍♀️

As a f/t working single parent of 3, I was hobbled by childcare costs. But I always paid if I couldn't use the minder on agreed days, for whatever reason. I agreed holidays & pay for those in advance, and specified some dates that they had to take which aligned to my own holidays but they had the choice of other days.

I know you said you've learnt now & have a nursery place but how did you think this was reasonable in the first place? In terms of comeback there won't be any as she was asking to be paid in cash so is unlikely to do anything further. One final week's pay is fair too.

EarringsandLipstick · 17/05/2023 07:17

Cherryblossoms85 · 17/05/2023 07:11

I wish people wouldn't do this. You are her employer and should have been paying national insurance. Not stating the holiday arrangements up front and when she is or isn't needed is pretty shoddy. So is her behaviour, but you should have drawn up a contract and followed a proper process to protect both you and her from misunderstandings.

Exactly - better & more succinctly put than my post!

EarringsandLipstick · 17/05/2023 07:18

mightymam · 17/05/2023 07:15

She's a cheeky fucker who's probably claiming benefits on the side. Tell her to piss off or you'll report her for harassment. I'm in shock you put up with her in professionalism for so long.

The OP is the CF, in fact. The minder is certainly less than professional, but then she wasn't employed professionally either.

jeaux90 · 17/05/2023 07:22

I am a single/lone parent who has employed a nanny for over 10 years.

You need a contract and to payNI and pension contributions etc.

The whole set up is a mess.
You are both BU.

MillieMollieMandy1 · 17/05/2023 07:23

I am amazed you had this random woman in your own home two days a week.

evuscha · 17/05/2023 07:23

Pay her and hope she doesn’t report you.

For any potential next time that you employ a nanny (and even a part time or shared nanny is still a nanny), you really need a proper contract that outlines sick policy, annual leave, notice period…

Yes people often pay cash in hand and nannies often ask for it, that doesn’t make it right.

LadyatLady · 17/05/2023 07:24

CreeperBoom · 16/05/2023 22:28

I actually think you are on dodgy ground. It sounds like she is not a childminder, but a nanny. You should be employing her, paying NI, tax and holiday pay, etc, etc.

You (and she) should have been clear upfront about holidays and notice period. I actually think you have treated her pretty badly, though she hasn't been professional either.

Probably for the best you have found something else, and I think you should pay until one full month after you gave her notice as a minimum.

I hope you are prepared for nursery charging when you are not there, they are closed for xmas, etc.

I agree 100% with @CreeperBoom if she had the knowledge you’re on very dodgy ground. You employed her in your home, you’ve evaded certain taxes by doing so.

Original poster
Avatari · 17/05/2023 07:29

To clear up a couple of things. She was made aware that it would be term time only and for a limited time. It was a casual agreement and it suited her to, if she couldn't come, she just told us as well.

OP posts:
underneaththeash · 17/05/2023 07:31

Avatari · 16/05/2023 23:46

Trust me, lesson learnt. She came recommended by a doctor from playgroup has a DBS check, didn't ask if she was first aid trained but DH was in the house, which is why we felt ok. Though, he's not first trained either.

3 days a week in nursery will still considerably cheaper AND they definitely are DBS checked, first aid trained and insured so we are very happy with our choice.

Anyway DH has taken the stance that she was self employed as she had other families on her book and that she was able to rescind her service without any notice. Which is true she was away for two weeks and told us 2 days before. And that she should have been declaring her income from all families together. He also originally offered to pay via bank transfer but she declined and asked for cash.

Show quote history

She absolutely cannot be self-employed as a nanny working two days a week 9-5 for someone in their own home. She can't be self-employed for the other job either.

Just google "can nannies be self-employed and you'll see".

It was rife a few years ago and I personally know 2 families who were reported to MHRC as they pissed off their nannies in some way. Honestly, I'd just pay her for the next month.