Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To this is fucking dangerous and why we must get the Tories out?

1000 replies

dontlookbackyourenotgoingthatway · 16/05/2023 09:37

This:

nationalconservatism.org/national-conservatism-a-statement-of-principles/

Look at the speakers;

nationalconservatism.org/natcon-uk-2023/

How can anybody who has studied any history whatsoever vote for this?

Are living in some kind of shit, TV movie about the fall of the UK?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
jgw1 · 17/05/2023 13:10

Sausagenbacon · 17/05/2023 10:16

How long ago did Miriam Cates stand up for women's rights, just a few days ago she was advocating less education for girls so that the birth rate in the UK could be increased? When did she change her mind?
Could you please respond to what I said? Instead of veering off into whattaboutery? Can you deny that she spoke in the HoC to defend Womens Rights and was directly intimidated by a Labour MP, who wasn't censured. She had the courage to do that when mu Labour MP won't.

I am sorry I veered off into the whataboutery that was the subject of the OP, dreadful of me.

SunnyEgg · 17/05/2023 13:12

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 13:00

Not you, there's a very tedious poster on this thread who claimed that Miriam Cates said women shouldn't go to university but repeatedly denied that David Lammy thinks a man can grow a cervix despite there being a video clip of him saying basically that.

Show quote history

Yeh that was a strange one

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 13:27

Alexandra2001 · 17/05/2023 13:07

Let's think about Sunak to start

  • Increase minimum wage by 10.1%
  • Increase state pension by 10.1%
  • Increase benefits by 10.1%
  • Give everyone at least £400 towards energy bills.
  • Give those on benefits £1000+, pensioners even more, towards energy bills.
  • Capped energy prices for consumers at great cost to the state.
  • Increased income taxes dramatically to pay for the additional socialism.

TBH increasing benefits and NMW by less than inflation is hardly amazing! (inflation went above 11%)
Even with some quite poor energy support, we all saw prices increase by over 100%
Pensioner benefits are so low that failure to give money to help them would have meant many dying AND last year they scrapped the Triple lock so pensioners still worse off.

UK still pays the highest electricity prices in the world.

Where have these extra taxes gone? yes to pay our astronomical national debt interest, significantly increased by Truss.... it certainly hasn't gone on improving the state of our roads, NHS, schools AND we have the highest Tuition fees anywhere in the world.....

Furlough was generous but the fraud attached to it is terrible, yet no one jailed, monies not recovered.

For me, the Tories have had 13 years & have failed to improve anything at all, in fact, this country is in a far worse state than it was.... they ve squandered the opportunity to rebuild after Brexit, their trade deal is a disaster.... look at what the parent company of Vauxhall are saying?

"Squandered the opportunity to rebuild after Brexit" is an odd way of putting it.

Alexandra2001 · 17/05/2023 13:30

@MargotBamborough Well, Brexit happened, i was and am dead against it BUT we are where we are, there may have been an opportunity to mitigate, to have a more environmentally friendly CAP, to have a close and far reaching trade agreement with the EU... instead we got the hardest of Brexits and now all 3 main parties want to stay out.

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 17/05/2023 13:33

They’ll be in next though according to most posting here
Hope so

Endlesssummer2022 · 17/05/2023 13:38

Multiple posters working hard to divert this thread from the fact that several top UK government members, spoke at (for a generous fee I’m sure) a conference that was labelled far right by their own party only a few years ago.

The Nat C conference is run by a powerful American think tank with opaque backers. These UK politicians took time out of their day to take money from American backers to promote their interests in the UK. Notice how all of the speakers are the ‘patriotic’ Brexiteers? If this is the case, why are they working hard to push American far right rhetoric instead of working hard in their local constituencies?

SunnyEgg · 17/05/2023 13:38

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 17/05/2023 13:33

They’ll be in next though according to most posting here
Hope so

God Starmer and Rayner, Lammy and co

Labour, Brexit and anti women

Going to be bad

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 17/05/2023 13:41

SunnyEgg · 17/05/2023 13:38

God Starmer and Rayner, Lammy and co

Labour, Brexit and anti women

Going to be bad

Show quote history

"Gonna be bad"
In your opinion, yes - definitely not in mine, much rather them than the bracing far right stuff we've got now

Samphiredragonfly · 17/05/2023 13:41

Have you name changed @SunnyEgg Your style of posting is reminiscent of another poster who can never bring herself to criticise the Tories and is always accusing the left of sneering....

Samphiredragonfly · 17/05/2023 13:42

@SunnyEgg brexit and men in female prisons have all happened under the Conservatives ?

SunnyEgg · 17/05/2023 13:49

Samphiredragonfly · 17/05/2023 13:41

Have you name changed @SunnyEgg Your style of posting is reminiscent of another poster who can never bring herself to criticise the Tories and is always accusing the left of sneering....

Er are you stalking someone?

Search them and find them if that’s what you’re after

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 13:52

Alexandra2001 · 17/05/2023 13:30

@MargotBamborough Well, Brexit happened, i was and am dead against it BUT we are where we are, there may have been an opportunity to mitigate, to have a more environmentally friendly CAP, to have a close and far reaching trade agreement with the EU... instead we got the hardest of Brexits and now all 3 main parties want to stay out.

Sure, I agree with that, but it is a bit like saying the people who burned the house down on purpose failed to make the most of the opportunity to rebuild it!

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/05/2023 13:52

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 12:38

Listen, I have strongly criticised that policy of stripping dual nationals of their British citizenship. I think it's a terrible, discriminatory policy which casts the UK in a terrible light (even though other countries have done the same thing). And yes, technically it has implications for all Jewish people and the roughly 20% of British people who have or are entitled to Irish citizenship. (It's arguably a more anti-Irish policy than it is an antisemitic one, given the numbers involved.)

But the purpose of the policy was to be able to wash our hands of jihadists. I would be extremely surprised if a single British Jew is stripped of their citizenship in this way. So no, I don't agree that it is an antisemitic policy. A horrible, racist, discriminatory policy, yes, but not an antisemitic one.

And I think if you are going to accuse people of antisemitism you need to make sure your own hands are completely clean first. Starmer has gone some way towards addressing Labour's antisemitism problems, which is to be applauded, but they're not there yet.

Show quote history

I can see why you will not be voting Tory in the future and am glad. But just because you won't be voting Tory, it doesn't mean you'll be voting Labour, right? So this but Labour shite is just nonsense.

The purpose of the legistlation was not simply to be able to wash our hands of jihadists. That was already possible after the Shamima Begum case. The purpose of the legistlation was to make it easier to strip British citizens of Jewish, Irish, black, Asian descent of their citizenship if they opposed the government. Extend the government's power and spark fear. This is particularly pertinent when you listen to what government representatives have said wrt to women's rights at the conference the OP is discussing. And the stripping of our rights to protest.

It is antisemitic, racist and anti freedom legistlation.Angry

And my hands are clean of antisemitism, thanks for asking.Smile

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 13:54

Samphiredragonfly · 17/05/2023 13:42

@SunnyEgg brexit and men in female prisons have all happened under the Conservatives ?

As of February male rapists are no longer allowed in women's prisons.

I mean, they should never have been there in the first place and it's appalling that this even needed to be said/done, but it's still a far cry from Lisa Nandy's preferred prison policy, where prison should be a gender affirming space for the likes of Karen White and female prisoners matter no more than the rats which are fed to the snakes at the zoo.

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 17/05/2023 13:55

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 12:30

Of course they have. This thread is supposedly about how the Tories, who according to most polls, will not be in power much longer, are a huge threat to women's rights (including our reproductive rights) because five of them attended this conference.

And yet when other posters point out that Labour, who most likely will be in power soon, have some worryingly anti woman policies which many of us are rightly concerned about, making their own position on women's rights very poor indeed, we are told to shut up, accused of being closest Tories (or worse) and asked not to derail this thread but leave it as the Tory bashing echo chamber it was intended to be.

I mean, if you want to just have a cosy little chat about how the Tories are going to ban abortion and everyone who cares about women's rights needs to vote the Tories out, without acknowledging any of Labour's shortcomings on women's rights, I'm not sure what you think the point of that is or what you hope to achieve.

"Get the Tories out because reasons and vote Labour because Labour are not the Tories" is not a tactic that has ever worked.

The only Labour leader to have won an election in most people's living memory is Tony Blair, and he certainly had more to offer than not being the Tories.

Show quote history

Because this is whataboutery and, frankly, every non-tory is utterly sick of this line of defence being implemented by the tory deflection squad on here. On every thread that attempts to discuss the impact of the corruption, ineptitude, wrong-doings, mismanagement, lies, and policies the Tories have been responsible for the TDS turn up and screech BUT LABOUR!

Trying to discuss the Tories economic ineptitude results in cries of BUT LABOUR!
Trying to discuss the Tories failures on immigration results in cries of BUT LABOUR!
Trying to discuss the Tories mismanagement of COVID results in cries of BUT LABOUR!
Trying to discuss the Tories destruction of public services, education and the NHS results in cries of BUT LABOUR!
Trying to discuss Tory Ministers associating with foreign right-wing organisation results in cries of BUT LABOUR!

I mean if someone has an actual opinion on what this thread is about e.g., the views held by NatCon attendees/members or on why it's not a problem for sitting UK ministers to attend these sort of events (although apparently it was unacceptable only a few years ago) then they should share them for discussion.

Simply saying "BUT LABOUR WILL BE WORSE" over and over again is tedious in the extreme.

SunnyEgg · 17/05/2023 13:59

It may be tedious but likely true

No one is going to convince anyone to vote differently on here.
People share their concerns that’s all

It’s not going to be complete agreement unless you do a closed FB group and invite left / Labour voters

It’s really fine to not say the same things. I prefer it to autocracy and silencing women

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 14:01

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/05/2023 13:52

I can see why you will not be voting Tory in the future and am glad. But just because you won't be voting Tory, it doesn't mean you'll be voting Labour, right? So this but Labour shite is just nonsense.

The purpose of the legistlation was not simply to be able to wash our hands of jihadists. That was already possible after the Shamima Begum case. The purpose of the legistlation was to make it easier to strip British citizens of Jewish, Irish, black, Asian descent of their citizenship if they opposed the government. Extend the government's power and spark fear. This is particularly pertinent when you listen to what government representatives have said wrt to women's rights at the conference the OP is discussing. And the stripping of our rights to protest.

It is antisemitic, racist and anti freedom legistlation.Angry

And my hands are clean of antisemitism, thanks for asking.Smile

Show quote history

Labour's hands aren't clean of antisemitism, are they? That's why it's unwise to suggest that we should vote Labour because of Tory antisemitism.

As for that Tory policy, as I said before I have always vocally opposed it but I can't honestly see it ever being used against the groups you mention. Plenty of people (including me) thought it was bad enough that it was used against Shamima Begum, who did actually run off to join a terrorist organisation. There would be complete uproar if it were ever used in the way you suggest, including from countries who kept quiet about Shamima Begum because they have done the same to their own citizens.

And no, I won't be voting Labour unless they commit to introducing PR. It's the only policy which could induce me to temporarily overlook their misogyny.

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 14:04

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 17/05/2023 13:55

Because this is whataboutery and, frankly, every non-tory is utterly sick of this line of defence being implemented by the tory deflection squad on here. On every thread that attempts to discuss the impact of the corruption, ineptitude, wrong-doings, mismanagement, lies, and policies the Tories have been responsible for the TDS turn up and screech BUT LABOUR!

Trying to discuss the Tories economic ineptitude results in cries of BUT LABOUR!
Trying to discuss the Tories failures on immigration results in cries of BUT LABOUR!
Trying to discuss the Tories mismanagement of COVID results in cries of BUT LABOUR!
Trying to discuss the Tories destruction of public services, education and the NHS results in cries of BUT LABOUR!
Trying to discuss Tory Ministers associating with foreign right-wing organisation results in cries of BUT LABOUR!

I mean if someone has an actual opinion on what this thread is about e.g., the views held by NatCon attendees/members or on why it's not a problem for sitting UK ministers to attend these sort of events (although apparently it was unacceptable only a few years ago) then they should share them for discussion.

Simply saying "BUT LABOUR WILL BE WORSE" over and over again is tedious in the extreme.

Show quote history

I'm not "the Tory deflection squad", I'm someone who has never voted Tory in my life and whose vote was completely winnable by Labour.

I'm appalled that they have chosen this moment to be complete fuckwits.

Lonelycrab · 17/05/2023 14:07

One poster has in excess of 130 posts on this one thread. Over 5 pages of themself. It’s almost like they’re uncomfortable with the question the op poses, and is trying to reach the limit so the thread closes asapHmm

I’ll leave it up to you to guess who that is.

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 14:10

What an odd thing to say.

SunnyEgg · 17/05/2023 14:11

The inability to allow other views is concerning

Whether it’s Drakeford with insults, Starmer with nothing to talk about or threats, violence, stop talking I find it quite a change and one worth discussing

Liberalism used to be freedom of thought didn’t it. Where’s the tolerance in the left gone?

And counting up posts.. that’s commitment to a cause

L1ttledrummergirl · 17/05/2023 14:14

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 17/05/2023 13:55

Because this is whataboutery and, frankly, every non-tory is utterly sick of this line of defence being implemented by the tory deflection squad on here. On every thread that attempts to discuss the impact of the corruption, ineptitude, wrong-doings, mismanagement, lies, and policies the Tories have been responsible for the TDS turn up and screech BUT LABOUR!

Trying to discuss the Tories economic ineptitude results in cries of BUT LABOUR!
Trying to discuss the Tories failures on immigration results in cries of BUT LABOUR!
Trying to discuss the Tories mismanagement of COVID results in cries of BUT LABOUR!
Trying to discuss the Tories destruction of public services, education and the NHS results in cries of BUT LABOUR!
Trying to discuss Tory Ministers associating with foreign right-wing organisation results in cries of BUT LABOUR!

I mean if someone has an actual opinion on what this thread is about e.g., the views held by NatCon attendees/members or on why it's not a problem for sitting UK ministers to attend these sort of events (although apparently it was unacceptable only a few years ago) then they should share them for discussion.

Simply saying "BUT LABOUR WILL BE WORSE" over and over again is tedious in the extreme.

Show quote history

This.

SunnyEgg · 17/05/2023 14:17

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 14:10

What an odd thing to say.

Can’t believe that poster spent time adding up posts. Some weirdness going on

It might be me but if they’re trying to have a go at you I’ve appreciated your posts 😀

Sausagenbacon · 17/05/2023 14:17

lonelycrab you've gone through the whole thread and counted the number of times someone's posted?

Lonelycrab · 17/05/2023 14:20

Can’t believe that poster spent time adding up posts. Some weirdness going on

Takes a few seconds with very basic knowledge of this site. Even I know how to do that and I’m crap at IT.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

Join Mumsnet Log In
This thread is not accepting new messages.