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Original poster

To this is fucking dangerous and why we must get the Tories out?

1000 replies

dontlookbackyourenotgoingthatway · 16/05/2023 09:37

This:

nationalconservatism.org/national-conservatism-a-statement-of-principles/

Look at the speakers;

nationalconservatism.org/natcon-uk-2023/

How can anybody who has studied any history whatsoever vote for this?

Are living in some kind of shit, TV movie about the fall of the UK?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
IClaudine · 17/05/2023 09:41

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 09:37

It's ironic in the context of a thread of people hand wringing and, frankly, catastrophising about the Tory party's attitude to women, whilst ignoring the serious issues within Labour.

Almost as if this is just political tribalism, rather than genuine concern about any of these issues.

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Oh dear. You are getting yourself in a muddle now.

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 09:42

IClaudine · 17/05/2023 09:41

Oh dear. You are getting yourself in a muddle now.

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Not at all.

I'm just fed up with people going, "OMG the Tories do X!" and repeatedly ignoring the fact that Labour also do X.

IClaudine · 17/05/2023 09:43

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 09:34

Well obviously not now.

I'm desperate for better options.

Clearly the reason Labour doesn't support electoral reform is because they're too lazy to campaign on the basis of anything other than being "not the Tories".

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What do you call wanting to extend the vote to younger people and other people not currently able to vote, then? Is that not electoral reform?

SunnyEgg · 17/05/2023 09:44

newnamethanks · 17/05/2023 09:41

30pLee said the other day -when he was appointed Deputy whatever he is - that, in the absence of Tory policies, culture wars is the way ahead. He has adherents, as evidenced on this thread. Don't play.

Don’t play

This sounds like Drakeford responding to a reasonable and measured question with you’re shrill, bigoted and I won’t answer

I do want to know the answer so I can decide

Women’s rights are important to me. They obviously aren’t to you but the attempts from the left to shut down questioning is concerning.

Why so authoritarian?

Samphiredragonfly · 17/05/2023 09:45

@MargotBamborough You didn't post in good faith. No intention of ever voting for the LP.
There are bigger issues than gender ID. Only someone financially insulated from the cost of living crisis etc can fixate on one issue alone.
Fact is it suits the tories if labour voters abstain too hence all the posts about labour being as bad.

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 09:46

IClaudine · 17/05/2023 09:43

What do you call wanting to extend the vote to younger people and other people not currently able to vote, then? Is that not electoral reform?

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I call that wanting to reform the electoral system in a way that specifically benefits Labour, not wanting to reform the electoral system in a way that allows everyone's vote to count, allows for the possibility of a party other than the Tories or Labour winning an election, and forces parties like the Tories and Labour to actually win people's votes, rather than relying on people wanting the other lot out after a while.

SunnyEgg · 17/05/2023 09:46

IClaudine · 17/05/2023 09:43

What do you call wanting to extend the vote to younger people and other people not currently able to vote, then? Is that not electoral reform?

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Shoring up support for Labour through changing the franchise

Something you seemed to oppose earlier with a smaller impact from tories

Samphiredragonfly · 17/05/2023 09:47

@MargotBamborough aren't labour considering PR ?

KimberleyClark · 17/05/2023 09:50

Maybe Starmer is more EU focussed, who knows, but historically Labour have been very close to US by choice

Harold Wilson was asked by Lyndon Johnson to send British troops to Vietnam. He refused.

IClaudine · 17/05/2023 09:50

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 09:46

I call that wanting to reform the electoral system in a way that specifically benefits Labour, not wanting to reform the electoral system in a way that allows everyone's vote to count, allows for the possibility of a party other than the Tories or Labour winning an election, and forces parties like the Tories and Labour to actually win people's votes, rather than relying on people wanting the other lot out after a while.

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Oh, so it is only "electoral reform" when the Tories try to gerrymander? Got it.

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 09:56

Samphiredragonfly · 17/05/2023 09:47

@MargotBamborough aren't labour considering PR ?

If they put it in their manifesto and commit to delivering it within the next parliament I might hold my nose and vote for them. It's the only policy that could win my vote now, and only then in the hope that I might be able to cast a meaningful vote for someone else next time.

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 09:57

IClaudine · 17/05/2023 09:50

Oh, so it is only "electoral reform" when the Tories try to gerrymander? Got it.

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Huh?

No. Nothing the Tories have done is electoral reform.

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/05/2023 09:57

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 09:37

It's ironic in the context of a thread of people hand wringing and, frankly, catastrophising about the Tory party's attitude to women, whilst ignoring the serious issues within Labour.

Almost as if this is just political tribalism, rather than genuine concern about any of these issues.

Show quote history

It is not catastrophising to point out the destruction of women's rights under the Tory government. They have destroyed our rights, our economy, our environment and reduced us to basketball status on the international stage.

Their intentions to fuck us up further cannot be ignored.

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 09:58

Samphiredragonfly · 17/05/2023 09:49

@SunnyEgg lol. Didn't Rees Mogg admit the voter ID legislation had backfired ? It actually prevented elderly conservative voters from voting...
https://news.sky.com/story/jacob-rees-mogg-suggests-requiring-photo-id-to-vote-was-attempt-to-gerrymander-which-came-back-to-bite-tories-12881602

Rather stupid to think that young and poor people are less likely to have photo ID than old people who still have paper driving licences and haven't been abroad in the last decade.

BodgerLovesMashedPotato · 17/05/2023 09:59

IClaudine · 17/05/2023 09:31

I don't think anyone said that though. It was just an acknowledgement that the Tories are capable of very dubious, anti-democratic behaviour. Gerrymandering for example. Illegally proroguing Parliament is another.

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Exactly

jgw1 · 17/05/2023 10:00

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 07:45

You're either being snide or you haven't the foggiest idea how our electoral system works. Or most probably both.

Do you think it's OK that voters have a binary choice between this lot and the lot who describe women defending their own rights as "dinosaurs who hoard rights"? Because I do not.

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In which case it may be worth you researching which of any of the parties are likely to propose changes in the voting system or the utterly undemocratic House of Lords.

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 10:00

TooBigForMyBoots · 17/05/2023 09:57

It is not catastrophising to point out the destruction of women's rights under the Tory government. They have destroyed our rights, our economy, our environment and reduced us to basketball status on the international stage.

Their intentions to fuck us up further cannot be ignored.

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But there is absolutely zero evidence that their intentions are to ban abortion, as suggested by some people on this thread. That is catastrophising.

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 10:00

jgw1 · 17/05/2023 10:00

In which case it may be worth you researching which of any of the parties are likely to propose changes in the voting system or the utterly undemocratic House of Lords.

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That is what we are currently discussing. Do keep up.

jgw1 · 17/05/2023 10:02

Sausagenbacon · 17/05/2023 09:21

MargotBamborough and SunnyEgg
Thank you for so ably holding the flag for basic intelligence against the nonsensical hyperbole on this thread.
I admire your perseverence.

And, while Miriam Cates is subject to the Five Minutes Hate on this thread, I won't forget that she stood up in Parliament and spoke for Women's Rights and Lloyd Russell Moyle moved across the house in order to intimidate her. My female Labour MP won't discuss the subject of trans issues because she is so concerned about the backlash from within Labour.

So don't talk to me about the Right potentially silencing Women, when the Left are actively doing it now.

That's how I know why the posters on this thread who are so worried about the Tories can't directly say what alternative there is.

How long ago did Miriam Cates stand up for women's rights, just a few days ago she was advocating less education for girls so that the birth rate in the UK could be increased? When did she change her mind?

Thelnebriati · 17/05/2023 10:03

But there is absolutely zero evidence that their intentions are to ban abortion, as suggested by some people on this thread. That is catastrophising.

People made similar comments when Roe vs Wade was overturned and yet here we are; Arkansas is about to ban all abortions including for medical reasons - including a molar pregnancy. Which is a type of cancer.

jgw1 · 17/05/2023 10:03

SunnyEgg · 17/05/2023 09:44

Don’t play

This sounds like Drakeford responding to a reasonable and measured question with you’re shrill, bigoted and I won’t answer

I do want to know the answer so I can decide

Women’s rights are important to me. They obviously aren’t to you but the attempts from the left to shut down questioning is concerning.

Why so authoritarian?

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Since you are interested in woman's rights will join me in condeming Suella Braverman, JRM, Miriam Cates and others who attended the NatC event where many speakers including some of those I named advocated attacks on woman's rights?

Jonei · 17/05/2023 10:03

How long ago did Miriam Cates stand up for women's rights, just a few days ago she was advocating less education for girls so that the birth rate in the UK could be increased? When did she change her mind?

Where did she say that women / girls should be less educated? Your previous 'evidence' didn't say that at all.

MargotBamborough · 17/05/2023 10:04

jgw1 · 17/05/2023 10:02

How long ago did Miriam Cates stand up for women's rights, just a few days ago she was advocating less education for girls so that the birth rate in the UK could be increased? When did she change her mind?

Show quote history

Can you show us some evidence of her saying those exact words?

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